re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Lol that's fucking great and spot on!

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

I don't keep up on all the news but was there any developer who openly supported the Xbox one stance on DRM before the reversal? I'm not trolling here. Or did they all stay silent to avoid the backlash?

For all the doom and gloom, aren't the publishers still able to put even more restrictive online licenses and such on their titles if they want to? Like a pass to even play the game. Obviously they'd get crucified for it, but if the game was incredible I'm sure people would still bite. Was the concept only revolutionary because the blame could be placed on the console maker?

And if this really was what the publishers wanted, why not just go Xbox One exclusive, or try to otherwise punish Sony? If enough of the top games go exclusive that turns then tide a bit, because hardware specs and promises aside, the software will really sell systems long term.

I still say they should have made something like always online optional, then show how awesome an experience it would be if you opted in. Game sharing, video sharing, cloud computing etc. You'll get people onboard. Make games that require these features, and if they're good enough you'll get adoption. Heck that's how they got people to pay for Xbox Live. Imagine if they made that a mandatory subscription instead of optional back in the day.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

"It's not all party hats and handjobs right now."

lol!

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

I believe I addressed this in another thread, but it's not about assigning blame. In the case of console gaming as we have it now, individual software companies can try and enact various schemes to get you to buy new games. Some may be DRM, some may use access codes for things like multiplayer, some may offer bonuses to people who buy new. The nice thing about this is that you can pick and choose the games that support the sort of thing you support, and you can skip the games that you feel go about it the wrong way.

The way the XO was conceived, DRM is applied to all games. You're treated like a potential criminal from day one. Even if a publisher wanted to opt out, they couldn't.

I wonder, for people who thought the Xbox One system was a good idea. Do you think what happened to Microsoft Office, going from a purchase system to a subscription service where you never owned the software, was a good move as well? That was as blatantly anti-consumer as the XO was, and from the same company as well.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Oh, I fall on your side of it, I was wondering more about the people defending the original stance and disappointed that this is now going to crush game developers.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Agree 100%, I keep seeing this sympathy argument about how this how policy was started to take down Gamestop. How were the original XBOX One policies in any way going to hurt Gamestop? You could still trade in games it was just a highly restrictive and cumbersome process. And guess who loves barriers to entry like this for smaller competition...companies like Gamestop that would be able to work with Microsoft to make the trade in process seamless, meanwhile completely negating the ability of the smaller ebay seller, craigslist seller, or small retailer to compete.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

And yet, all throughout the internet, I've seen people cry and whine that this reversal will now mean all we gained was the ability to sell a game for little credit to Gamestop, and we lost oh so many wonderful features, and it wasn't worth it, yadda yadda.

I'm not surprised that people who don't sell games would be the ones supporting the original XO plan, and would assume that we all stupidly only use Gamestop and just grovel and take whatever they give us.

And yet, those same people would happily sign up to a system where one of their few remaining options for trade ins will be Gamestop.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

I don't think the millions of people that download Steam games feel like they're being treated as a criminal. And no more then any of the other digital only purchases that are out there, like when people make purchases on iTunes or Google Play.

As for Office, it's still offered as a standalone product. The subscription based model is less useful for individual consumers that just want to use Word on their desktop, but Office 365 works great for small businesses who need the power of Exchange or collaboration and tools like Lync without setting up the in house infrastructure to run and support it. My former boss, an IT Director, absolutely loves it. I don't think Office is the best example, unless you're only thinking of the casual user.

Seems like an unfair generalization, after you corrected mine earlier. I don't really sell games, although i've traded a few in to Amazon, and I certainly don't think that at all. Any use of Gamestop as an example is just because it's obvious they're the big dog for used games, and honestly the "masses" do just trade games in to Gamestop and bother less with EBay, Craigslist, or trying to take advantage of extra % trade in offers.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Steam lets you play for two weeks offline before making you check in. XO would have said, "What's that, you played this game for more than 23 hours offline? NO GAME FOR YOU!"

Also, iTunes and Google Play MP3s have no DRM. Don't know about movies and such. I wouldn't know because I don't buy movies from iTunes or Google Play.


Perhaps I am making a generalization, but it's aimed at the people who were really big defenders of the first XO plan and are now loudly lamenting the change.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

So 13 days is the difference between whether you feel like you're a criminal or not? Seems arbitrary.

Pretty sure video is account based; applications are supposed to be tied to your account, although on Google you can extract apks themselves which don't have anything in particular attached to them. Either way, I think there are a lot of digital purchases that are tied to specific accounts these days, and not everything is about penalizing the innocent consumer.


No perhaps about it. I see the type of people you were complaining about too so I understand what you're getting at, I just don't think its any more the norm then the type I mentioned earlier.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Well, DRM is something we unfortunately have to live with these days. The question is, how much of it do we allow? The XO was too much for the few conveniences they were offering.

Also, I don't PC game very much either, so I don't give money to Steam either. I try to be as DRM free as I can, whenever possible.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

I've never sold a game. I was still ticked off. In fact, I think I've still got the game that I bought with the Wii (which I only held onto long enough to beat the game since I didn't want to waste the money).

Rather than nudging me to subscription, they shoved me out. I understand that LibreOffice has mostly disentangled itself from Java, so that's probably the way I'll go when I feel like an upgrade.

The people who wanted Office 365 would've gotten it anyway. I don't see why MS feels the need to push.

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 

I can confirm it. When I went to get Last of Us on Sunday, I was talking to the guy at Gamestop about E3 and the conferences and he was telling me that they could only get 9 X-One's at the store at launch day and that was it. Didn't know when they'd be able to get more. But was saying they'd have no problems with the PS4.

I thought it was only because this store was actually inside the shopping mall and therefore not considered important enough to get more then 9. But EVERY Gamestop seems to have been hit with this limitation.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Well if MS had simply rolled everything in the current 360 into the XO, left it alone Xbox fans and 360 owners would have been thrilled and we all wouldn't be having this conversation.

As to their change of mind...that's all good o gamers but when DEV Kits were sent out long, long ago I bet this was in and Devs and Publishers knew about this then. Now they're probably scratching their heads and asking WTF is MS doing?

We're still 5-6 months away and MS has encounted more controversy with the XO they ever had with the 360 before it's launch. At this point I'm just leary of MS and what they'll do or won't do with the XO between now and November. At least i know what my 360 can or cannot do.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

does this make you a hero or something?

I used to take games to gamestop(babbages then) 15 years ago for credit when i didn't know any better. I now sell all my console games on ebay and make a good chunk of money back.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Huh? How did they shove you out when you can buy a standalone version just like before?

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Ditto. This reversal is nothing but a good thing IMO. As someone who buys plenty of games based on word of mouth, I've bought my fair share of turds only to turn them around and get some funds back.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

alot of folks say -- well you can't trade or return games on steam! they are correct however, i pay alot less for those games. a couple of weeks ago, I purchased Alan Wake Collectors edition which includes all of the DLC and Alan Wake American Nightmare for.....$1.00. I am perfectly fine not being able to sell that.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

I don't understand why flipping physical media (i.e. the way it has always been) is the "death of developers" but being able to share games online with people who aren't even in your city isn't.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Because sharing requires you have friends!

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Which of the exclusive games being released on their console gave you this impression?

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Shhh. Hate Microsoft time. No questions.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

The exclusive games were overshadowed by the fact that nothing works if it's not connected to the internet to babysit you and your purchases.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

http://i.imgur.com/mMC0JM1.png

Oh, that's bullshit. You can still buy Office 2013 for full price if you want and install it on one computer. And there's nothing "anti-consumer" about Office 365; a product that lets you install it on FIVE PCs or devices. For the individual user, buy Office 2013. For any family or business with two to five compatible PCs or devices that all need Office on them, it's a steal at $99/year.

Your complaint about Office 365 is exactly the complaint everyone had about Spotify when it started up. "You mean I have to pay $10/month and I can't KEEP the music?! Bullshit!!!" And Spotify is more expensive than Office 365, also limits you to a certain number of devices.

:lol:

Not just exclusives. They did 90 minutes of "games games and more fucking games" at E3.

re: Xbox One: We said WHAT at E3??
 

Not really, everything in that fake letter was valid before the change and still is, the only difference is discs work like discs. Again, if Microsoft decides to get rid of features, it's on them, but getting rid of the Always-On DRM only got rid of installing store bought discs which frankly, who gives a damn. Want to make a game that uses extensive cloud shit? Do it, just label it on the box.

My 2 cents as per norm ;)

If they get rid of any features for digital downloads - such as the family sharing and other frivolous things - that one is completely on them.

Weird, I don't recall any complaints about Spotify. All I remember was "Stream any song any time any where for $10" and I recall everyone being pretty psyched about it.

Microsoft used to sell Office in 3 installation clumps (you had the actual right to install it on 3 PCs) for $100, and it wasn't annual. That changed when they introduced 365. Double edged sword. And anyway that's exactly what Microsoft did again, you can't complain because now you can either buy your game digitally or own it outright. Those bought digitally should reap the same benefit they were going to originally.