Sounds like BFBC2 has gone back to behaving like it was before one of the other patches. They can be a little slow patching this. Hopefully with people playing it for Vietnam - they'll fix it soon.

The prodigal douche finds his way into the Warhawk thread!

I've only played CoD a few times, and my take has always been that the gameplay encourages twitchers and campers, neither of which interests me. And yes, I despise everything Activision stands for...namely milking franchises and consumers until entire genres are ruined.

That said, I recognize that CoD is a quality product with a great infrastructure and an enviable level of consumer awareness (i.e. hype). It's just not my cup of tea.

Alright, I'll play devil's advocate.
Arguement can be made that any shooter advocates twitchy play and camping. Map knowledge and player tendencies are what really make the difference between players. And since Black Ops has their multiplayer mode you can play with bots, there is no excuse to not get a leg up on people ny spending some time getting to know the maps offline or playing in private matches.
Activision does milk franchises but at the same time they put some of the profits back into supporting their products and not charging for an online code if you rent or buy a used copy of a game. (As EA does for all their online enabled games - they charge for single player stuff too.) Nickle and diming customers for content that should be on the disk counts, along with having players be able to pay for unlocking weapons that in most games should be earned (paying to cheat IMHO - EA does all of this). And as for milking products - Annual sports titles with minimal changes count as milking too.
CoD is a quality product but I will say that Activi$ion (especially Kotick) really showed how underhanded and douchey a company they are by screwing over Infinity Ward and their founders. I'd love to see Respawn Entertainment ( the new home for Infinity Wards crew) develop a game that is a true CoD killer.

Smaller maps + tons of hiding places + non-destructable environments + huge rewards for killstreaks = haven for dickbags

IMO, of course.

I'm not defending EA, as they are surely evil as well, but they seem to be much more developer-friendly, and I get why they'd want to come up with a model to stop Gamestop from snagging all of their (and their developers') profits. My problem with keys is that the consumer isn't educated about them, and they just get upset about it, but dollar for dollar, it's still cheaper than $15 map packs. If you'd purchased BC2 used for $20, you would have spent $15 (now $10) for the VIP key and $15 for Vietnam...total.

Charging for unlocks or appearance mods seems like a relatively benign revenue stream to me...doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all.

People seem to want new sports titles every year. I don't understand it, or care, as sports games stopped being fun for me about 13-buttons ago.

None of this compares to $15 map packs for an annualized franchise or what Activision did to Tony Hawk, Spider-man, Guitar Hero, or CoD...or how they treated Infinity Ward and Harmonix for that matter.

I think Dice will, or arguably already has, beat them to it.

I'm kinda bored today so I will continue to play devil's advocateLarge environments + tons of hiding places + destructible environments + tank/heli spawning = haven for sniping dickbag campers and vehicle riding turdnuggets
I'm gonna crunch some numbers and use MW2 as a comparison to BFBC2 to figure out the "value". Not including onslaught as that is the same as spec-ops/zombie. Vietnam I consider equivalent to Black ops and I won't consider Hardcore modes since it will essentially double most of the modes.
BFBC2 map packs
Most of the packs are reissues of previous maps for a different mode - weak but it is included (eventually) with new copies
Including original maps - 11 rush maps, 9 squad rush, 11 conquest 10 squad deathmatch = 41 combinations, $60 / 41 = 68 cents per combination
MW2 map packs10 different modes per map - Demolition, Sabotage, Capture the Flag, FFA TDM, Domination, Headquarters, 3rd person, Ground War, Barebones (the last 3 are playlists which include multiple modes but we'll keep it simple.
16 original maps + 5 stimulus maps + 5 resurgence maps = 26 maps x 10 modes = 260 combinations $90/260 = 35 cents per map combination

Bottom line you get what you pay for - both games are worth it.

Your "logic" is broken in so many ways.

Had to share this:

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Good times on BC2 last night...no issues getting in and finding a game.

Digi was on for a bit along with Ktown and Diecast and a couple of Gonzo's friends.

I was bored.

I think you should do the math with how much it costs per square foot!

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So easy to just be a giant douche and not bother stating where his logic is broken, such an easy response. It's cool to hate Activision and Call of Duty, I get it, I hated Sony at the start of this generation because of their arrogance. If that's all it is, I'm fine with it, but to just pooh pooh the whole game and all of its modes because you have the publisher, then you are the one that loses. Like I said earlier, you can play team tactical on barebones and there are no annoying killstreaks, perks, etc, and fun to be had by all. I would suggest renting it and trying that, unless you are just too high and mighty to get your ass handed to you by the rest of the douches like you.

I'm not that bored even though I am at my 2nd job on Super Bowl Sunday.

Tonight they have a Bill O'Reilly interview prior to, a Black Eyed Peas concert half way through, an extra-long Glee episode after, and Football in between. It's not even worth watching for the commercials this year, folks.

Yikes...the CoD thread leaks over! Hostility abounds!

Assuming the subject is still $15 map packs, here's the list...you know...just for your edification:

Cruz's Twisted Logic List

1. Battlefield isn't $60 and neither is MW2, so $15 map packs have a much bigger effect (total is more like $70 vs. $40).
2. Battlefield added maps constantly for 6 months at no charge just for buying it new.
3. Battlefield also comes with Battlefield 1943 (another 4 maps times [?] modes.
4. Comparing 10 modes to 4 doesn't really make for a fair denominator does it?
5. For $15, I expect something beefy like Vietnam (complete reskin with new vehicles/music), but he doesn't count Vietnam...for some reason.
6. CoD's maps are laughably tiny, aren't destructible, and have no vehicles, so it's not exactly 1:1 is it?
7. CoD's maps are now fully hacked, unplayable and populated by dickholes.
8. His whole premise was stupid.
9. He's funny looking.
10. His mama dresses him funny.

He knew his logic was broken, and I'm sure he cringed a little when he saw you defending him.

How's that for douchey?

Chill out, douchebags.

You're the bag of douche!

What has the world come to when Slider is the voice of reason???

Incidentally, I finally had the "can't find a game" problem in BC2. I was trying to play with Diecast on Saturday morning and ended up rolling our Borderlands characters a couple of levels instead. I know they were doing some "server maintenance" last weekend, so hopefully it will correct soon.

Soooo....Warhawk...any requests for tomorrow?

I'll be able to play regular maps tomorrow after 10:00pm CST. If you all are done by then or want to use expansion packs, that's cool. I think I can get together for the first time later this month.

I played for a couple of hours yesterday. No trouble. Got in a squad with an absolute Lvl 50 animal. I just followed him around tossing medkits, reviving and taking zones. He was always #1 in the match and I was always #2 or 3. #1 squad four maps in a row. My favorite part was that every once in awhile he'd grab a tank, roll up into the other teams spawn point and blast away at all of the buildings until someone blew the tank to bits. It's only douche when it's not on your team.

I also collected a nice bunch of dogtags. The wookie was definitely stabbed yesterday.

OK I'll biteNot hostility. Just debating while passing the time.
The subject was the games in their entirety
The assumption was the cost from day one. Launch price combined with the map packs.
"Added maps" is a weak way to phrase what was released for Battlefield for no charge. The first map pack added 2 new maps but you could only play one mode with each one. Each successive pack (2-6) only added a mode for the already existing maps. Had a Call of Duty game done something like this - The haters would have been up in arms - "How could they claim those are new maps!...etc.." Map Pack 7 was the only substantial release with 4 new maps with more than 1 mode per map.
Not originally. 1943 was released online only in July of 2009. (BFBC2 in March 2010) It was not free unless you bought the Ultimate Edition of BFBC2 in August of 2010 - early adopters would have to buy it twice or buy 1943 as a standalone product which was how it was originally intended to be released.
Not my fault that CoD supplies you with a far wider variety of match types and options than BFBC2 along with private matches that don't require a minimum of 8 people to play or the abilty to play the maps offline in splitscreen mode.
Vietnam was BFBC2's answer to keep up with the CoD franchises release of Black Ops - The 800 pound gorilla that would've brought sales of BFBC2 to a halt if not for the release of Map pack 7 and Vietnam. If they don't release this BFBC2's server population becomes nonexistant and matches would be a pain in the ass to find.
Some of the dumbest maps can be the big ones in CoD ( regulars can attest to this) . CoD's maps looked lived in, have character and they look real. Everything is not made of balsa wood and they don't look like a bomb testing site at a military facility. Without destructability/vehicles BFBC2 is a CoD clone with huge maps where everyone snipes and hides.
Not Activisions fault or Infinity Ward's. Security was comprimised on Sony's end and there was no problems with the PS3 version of CoD 4 or MW2 until that happened. Black Ops will not have this problem because Treyarch have built it to be more secure. They are unplayable if you are new or you suck at FPS. Way to state the obvious on the dickhole comment. Every game is loaded with dickholes. Lets play some pub matches on Warhawk if you don't believe it. BFBC2 is not immune from this and if you don't believe me - try and count how many times you die in your beloved Hardcore Conquest from campers who you have no idea where they are or from being baseraped. I bet you lose count and interest in keeping count after the first dozen times.Sticks and stones.
If you can't say anything nice...
Only to keep the skanky moms (like yours) away.

My logic is far from broken - Your disdain of the CoD franchise/Activi$ion (see I even added the dollar sign to make it feel better for you) has clouded over your perception of the multiple inadequecies that are present in BFBC2 - that is what made me cringe. I appreciate what Shumway said and he is right - there is a mode that takes away perks/killstreaks and make you play the game at it's most basic level - it is tons of fun. I suspect if you took away what makes BFBC2 stand out - vehicles/destructibility and those passive peks and played it at its most basic level - It would be a very average game populated by dickholes who hate CoD.

Good gravy, just how bored are you?

We usually wrap up between 10:30-10:45 CST.

Can we get back on topic here?

Anyone going to be playing Battlefield tonight?

Not everything is about you.

I'm still waiting on your in-depth analysis of how many cents per square foot the two games cost, which would be just as valid as your arbitrary (and skewed) measure.

Or maybe you could measure cost per dunebuggy...

Assuming I can get in...I am in.

I don't know if I'll have time, but if I can make my way to Target tomorrow for their PS3 deal, then I may be on for Warhawk. If not, then have a good game.