Writers Strike 2023
07-27-23 | 08:53 AM
#576
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Writers Strike 2023
I'm not a soap watcher (but I do watch the male equivalent in professional wrestling/sports entertainment) and it sometimes feels like an AI would do a better job than the writers since most of the plots in these by design are nonsensical and almost never ending/repeating. Not that I want anyone out of a job, and I'm surprised that the show can get away with it without the union crying foul. Like how did these make it to air already, are the actors not part of the union for some reason?
07-27-23 | 09:00 AM
#577
Suspended
07-27-23 | 09:02 AM
#578
Suspended
Re: Writers Strike 2023
If that's true, that's going to bite the scabs in the ass in a few weeks. I'm no fan of soap operas, but it's a specific skill to be able to write 5 episodes a week, week after week. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon. Regular shows can wrap up storylines and then, you know, end. For a soap opera, everytime they wrap up a storyline they have to introduce a new one. So the fans may be happy for now, but they're going to almost immediately turn around and ask, "ok, now what?" It's not sustainable to keep coming up with ideas and then resolving them in only a few episodes. I'm guessing the scabs are going to burn out quick, and they'll end up cycling through scabs, and the storylines will devolve into a nonsensical, repetitive mess.
work under the current contract as long as there are scripts. They won’t feel the wrath of Daddy Union, don’t worry!!!
Anyway, the writers are specifically asking fans to watch, because if they shut down, these shows are likely not coming back. They produce 250 episodes a year and scripts lasted 3 months. Now they rely on Ficore/scabs to write. I know no one here gives a shit about anyone else but the $1000 a day writers, but other people rely on these jobs for their livelihood and don’t give a shit about some solidarity crap when they need to feed their kids.
Last edited by Gizmo; 07-27-23 at 09:18 AM.
07-27-23 | 09:06 AM
#579
Suspended
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Note that the writers aren't explicitly calling for "profit sharing," which is a whole can of worms. They're asking for better upfront pay and fixed residual rates, which is a lot easier to calculate. It's something studios and streamers already factor in, the rates are just going to be a bit higher.
"Profit sharing" is a scam anyway, due to the creative accounting that goes on in Hollywood. Everyone knows you ask for gross points, not net.
I'd say the actors and writers should ask for revenue sharing instead, so if a show is successful they make a lot more money than they'd get with the residuals, while if the show isn't as successful they don't get paid as much, but it's still affordable for streamers to keep it in their library. However, I suspect this would go over even worse with the studios, since it'd mean they wouldn't make as insane a profit on the really successful shows as they currently are.
Finally, yes, I understand trying to figure out the revenue and profits from a particular show on a subscription service can be tricky, but do you really think the streaming services and studios haven't gotten it figured out by now? Are all the streaming services dropping shows from their service recently just randomly guessing at what shows aren't profitable to them? Disney+ just rolled the dice, and it came up Willow, so they dropped the show without knowing if that was a good idea or not? It's not like ad-free subscription service is even a new idea: HBO has existed for decades, and has been producing shows since the late 80s. There's ways to figure it out, and while they're probably not 100% accurate, they're close enough to be able to run a successful business. And keep in mind that for the actors and writers, it's not necessarily a concern whether the streamer made money on the show or not; all they need to know is what the production companies got paid to deliver the show to the streamer, and what they continue to get paid for keeping it on the streaming service.
"Profit sharing" is a scam anyway, due to the creative accounting that goes on in Hollywood. Everyone knows you ask for gross points, not net.
I'd say the actors and writers should ask for revenue sharing instead, so if a show is successful they make a lot more money than they'd get with the residuals, while if the show isn't as successful they don't get paid as much, but it's still affordable for streamers to keep it in their library. However, I suspect this would go over even worse with the studios, since it'd mean they wouldn't make as insane a profit on the really successful shows as they currently are.
Finally, yes, I understand trying to figure out the revenue and profits from a particular show on a subscription service can be tricky, but do you really think the streaming services and studios haven't gotten it figured out by now? Are all the streaming services dropping shows from their service recently just randomly guessing at what shows aren't profitable to them? Disney+ just rolled the dice, and it came up Willow, so they dropped the show without knowing if that was a good idea or not? It's not like ad-free subscription service is even a new idea: HBO has existed for decades, and has been producing shows since the late 80s. There's ways to figure it out, and while they're probably not 100% accurate, they're close enough to be able to run a successful business. And keep in mind that for the actors and writers, it's not necessarily a concern whether the streamer made money on the show or not; all they need to know is what the production companies got paid to deliver the show to the streamer, and what they continue to get paid for keeping it on the streaming service.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...235546180/amp/
07-27-23 | 09:51 AM
#580
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Writers Strike 2023
And just because a streaming service is losing money, doesn't mean any of the shows are actually losing money. The streamer is "losing money" because they're paying out to the studios for the shows, but aren't bringing in enough revenue from subscriptions, so the studios themselves are fine, at least on the show production end (the studios that went with their own exclusive streaming service are going to be feeling a bite from that particular division). Keep in mind that the union contracts are with the studios for specific show productions, not with the streamers.
But the whole point of the union contract is that the writers costs are known and factored into costs when the show is greenlit. But unless the studios want to share the wealth and give the writers and actors even more money when a show is way more successful than predicted, they can't cry hardship if a show doesn't do as well as they hoped.
Last edited by Jay G.; 07-27-23 at 09:58 AM.
07-27-23 | 09:56 AM
#581
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Writers Strike 2023
https://deadline.com/2023/07/general...ke-1235448561/
As Deadline reported last month, production on the daytime soaps is continuing through the SAG-AFTRA strike because soap actors are employed under the National Code of Fair Practice for Network Television Broadcasting (aka Network Code). Negotiated between SAG-AFTRA and the Big four broadcast networks as well as other producers, the National Code covers soaps as well as morning news shows, talk shows, variety, reality, game shows, sports and promotional announcements. The current Code agreement, reached a year ago, goes through July 2024.
News of the change went viral Tuesday after Shannon Peace, a GH writer, posted to her private account on Instagram that “scab writers” are now penning for the soap exclusively. “Daytime writers face a unique conflict during strikes,” she wrote. “We hate to see our characters and storylines handed over to ‘writers’ who cross the picket line. But we’re also keenly aware that stopping production could spell the demise of soap operas.”
Her post was picked up on social media by actors like Bradley Whitford and Lisa Ann Walter, a longtime fan of daytime dramas who wanted to call out “scab writers putting the writers of these beloved soaps out of work.”
Her post was picked up on social media by actors like Bradley Whitford and Lisa Ann Walter, a longtime fan of daytime dramas who wanted to call out “scab writers putting the writers of these beloved soaps out of work.”
07-27-23 | 10:05 AM
#582
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Writers Strike 2023
I'm not a soap watcher (but I do watch the male equivalent in professional wrestling/sports entertainment) and it sometimes feels like an AI would do a better job than the writers since most of the plots in these by design are nonsensical and almost never ending/repeating. Not that I want anyone out of a job, and I'm surprised that the show can get away with it without the union crying foul. Like how did these make it to air already, are the actors not part of the union for some reason?
https://prowrestlingstories.com/pro-...estling-union/
Professional wrestling is one of the last of the unprotected industries in sports and entertainment. Many wrestlers have attempted to form a wrestling union but were met with failure. Some were blackballed completely...
The standard contract for WWE wrestlers state:
The Contractor (the wrestler) acknowledges and agrees that during the Term, the Contractor shall be an independent contractor. Therefore, WWE shall have no responsibility to make any deductions or withholding from Contractor’s compensation, whether for federal, state, local, or any other taxes, unemployment compensation, insurance, social security, workers’ compensation, or any other assessments of contributions. Further, because Contractor is an independent contractor, Contractor acknowledges and agrees that WWE has no obligation to provide any medical, disability, workers’ compensation, or any other insurance or benefits generally offered to WWE employees.
WWE contracts also affirm that the wrestler is responsible for their costumes, makeup, wardrobe, props, transportation, food, and lodging.
The standard contract for WWE wrestlers state:
The Contractor (the wrestler) acknowledges and agrees that during the Term, the Contractor shall be an independent contractor. Therefore, WWE shall have no responsibility to make any deductions or withholding from Contractor’s compensation, whether for federal, state, local, or any other taxes, unemployment compensation, insurance, social security, workers’ compensation, or any other assessments of contributions. Further, because Contractor is an independent contractor, Contractor acknowledges and agrees that WWE has no obligation to provide any medical, disability, workers’ compensation, or any other insurance or benefits generally offered to WWE employees.
WWE contracts also affirm that the wrestler is responsible for their costumes, makeup, wardrobe, props, transportation, food, and lodging.
https://deadspin.com/wwe-and-pro-wre...t-w-1848034023
https://jacobin.com/2022/10/wwe-vinc...-unions-health
https://organizing.work/2020/11/wres...they-have-one/
The writers for WWE are not part of WGA, or any other union, either:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/rumo...ongoing-strike
07-27-23 | 10:12 AM
#583
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Oh, I know wrestling has been going on despite the strike and they're on a separate contract, just saying that you'd think if AI were to replace any writers it could do so on outlandish neverending series like wrestling or soaps (and I was more asking why soaps would still be going but someone said above that they are on a separate contract as well). I am probably ticking off a bunch of soap fans (which is why I also brought it back to wrestling, to tick both fanbases off equally)
07-27-23 | 10:21 AM
#584
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Might want to research what happened the last two strikes with Scabs and Soaps. You might be a bit surprised what happened. Soap actors are allowed to
work under the current contract as long as there are scripts. They won’t feel the wrath of Daddy Union, don’t worry!!!
Anyway, the writers are specifically asking fans to watch, because if they shut down, these shows are likely not coming back. They produce 250 episodes a year and scripts lasted 3 months. Now they rely on Ficore/scabs to write. I know no one here gives a shit about anyone else but the $1000 a day writers, but other people rely on these jobs for their livelihood and don’t give a shit about some solidarity crap when they need to feed their kids.
work under the current contract as long as there are scripts. They won’t feel the wrath of Daddy Union, don’t worry!!!
Anyway, the writers are specifically asking fans to watch, because if they shut down, these shows are likely not coming back. They produce 250 episodes a year and scripts lasted 3 months. Now they rely on Ficore/scabs to write. I know no one here gives a shit about anyone else but the $1000 a day writers, but other people rely on these jobs for their livelihood and don’t give a shit about some solidarity crap when they need to feed their kids.
People who say "well we needed unions then, but we don't need them now" are just believing the propaganda that the wealthy want you to believe. The 40 hour workweek, paid overtime, not being paid in company scrip, etc; these are all thanks to unions. You have benefits you don't even realize thanks to them. Show some fucking gratitude and educate yourself. Your opinions are embarrassing unless you're Elon Musk posting under a burner account.
07-27-23 | 10:46 AM
#585
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Writers Strike 2023
It comes down to this: who looks out for workers more - their union or the company they work for?
If you believe it's the company, you have never worked in corporate America.
If you believe it's the company, you have never worked in corporate America.
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Jay G. (07-27-23)
07-27-23 | 11:19 AM
#586
Suspended
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Lots of writers are gonna be looking into new careers with or without the strike with scripted having a major pullback. Asking the same studios to now pay more and hire more per episode will just make it worse. But hey, we have no problem outsourcing other jobs in other professions, but writing is something really sacred. And yes, the fact that this is on a forum dedicated to physical media makes it even more ironic.
07-27-23 | 11:59 AM
#587
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Lots of writers are gonna be looking into new careers with or without the strike with scripted having a major pullback. Asking the same studios to now pay more and hire more per episode will just make it worse. But hey, we have no problem outsourcing other jobs in other professions, but writing is something really sacred. And yes, the fact that this is on a forum dedicated to physical media makes it even more ironic.
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Jay G. (07-27-23)
07-27-23 | 12:09 PM
#588
DVD Talk God
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Most jobs on the creative side of entertainment are freelance daily hires. Like acting and writers/producers. When you do get booked to work on a show for xx months, you should be able to earn enough to survive for whatever period of time you're booked for. That's not unreasonable and that's part of what the writers are looking for. I don't see anywhere saying the writers are looking for stable staff 52 week per year guaranteed jobs. When the job is over, then you need to look for a new job or file for unemployment until you get your next gig. That's just common knowledge. But, I just don't get Gizmo's hostility towards writers like they fucked him over and it sounds like he doesn't value the profession either. It's not an easy job either. You don't just hire some random shmuck off the street fresh from USC or Cal State Northridge to write the next episode of Dead City. They start at the way bottom of the totem pole and have to learn on the job.
I respect all those who want to take on a career in scripted TV or movies. It's extremely hard to get into that side of business and most will likely fail. I took script writing classes in college and did pretty good in them, but in the end that wasn't the side of the business I wanted to pursue and I went a different direction. I know it's hard being a freelancer. I've been doing it since 2011. There are periods of time when it's slow.
I respect all those who want to take on a career in scripted TV or movies. It's extremely hard to get into that side of business and most will likely fail. I took script writing classes in college and did pretty good in them, but in the end that wasn't the side of the business I wanted to pursue and I went a different direction. I know it's hard being a freelancer. I've been doing it since 2011. There are periods of time when it's slow.
Last edited by DJariya; 07-27-23 at 12:20 PM.
07-27-23 | 01:54 PM
#589
Suspended
Re: Writers Strike 2023
everyone complains when their Netflix bill goes up a whole $1 imagine how it will be if the WGA get their demands met. Who is gonna pay $30 for Netflix so the writers can get paid more money when AI can do the job of several? Can’t keep pushing back technology - it’s coming!it’s fine. Plenty of backlog to catch up on. Writing is not a guaranteed job for life. Tell that to your local cashiers being replaced by Scan and Go terminals.
Anyway, two more weeks and we will see some big contracts coming to end. I’m sure Ryan Murphy will get a new deal at Disney worth hundreds of millions though. Hope he shares all that with his friends writing!
Enjoy the chaos. Nothing is happening anytime soon. Yawn.
07-27-23 | 02:41 PM
#590
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Yea, because regardless of there was a strike or not every streamer/studio was going to cut into scripted and there would be LESS jobs. Now with this strike, when resolved, there will be LESS scripted (and smaller episode orders) as it will be more expensive and with that LESS jobs (which is why the WGA is trying to guarantee additional writers regardless if needed just so they can get some due money).
Don’t worry, consumers will happily pay increases fees for their services to help support these struggling writers everyone complains when their Netflix bill goes up a whole $1 imagine how it will be if the WGA get their demands met. Who is gonna pay $30 for Netflix so the writers can get paid more money when AI can do the job of several? Can’t keep pushing back technology - it’s coming!
everyone complains when their Netflix bill goes up a whole $1 imagine how it will be if the WGA get their demands met. Who is gonna pay $30 for Netflix so the writers can get paid more money when AI can do the job of several? Can’t keep pushing back technology - it’s coming!
it’s fine. Plenty of backlog to catch up on. Writing is not a guaranteed job for life. Tell that to your local cashiers being replaced by Scan and Go terminals.
Anyway, two more weeks and we will see some big contracts coming to end. I’m sure Ryan Murphy will get a new deal at Disney worth hundreds of millions though. Hope he shares all that with his friends writing!
Enjoy the chaos. Nothing is happening anytime soon. Yawn.
07-27-23 | 03:56 PM
#591
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Yea, because regardless of there was a strike or not every streamer/studio was going to cut into scripted and there would be LESS jobs. Now with this strike, when resolved, there will be LESS scripted (and smaller episode orders) as it will be more expensive and with that LESS jobs..
The WGA and SAG-AFTRA are fighting for livable pay for their members, not for their workers getting exploited and having to go on food stamps while employed, even if the latter means more are employed. Like, its not good for the union or its members if most of them are working and still not doing well, it destroys the work force.
You just keep circling back to the same bad, flawed, and/or false arguments. Unions have never been about maximizing the number of workers to the detriment of those workers pay and benefits. That's what the companies want: a lot of cheap labor they can exploit, and then replace when they get overworked, stressed out, sick, burnt out, etc.
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07-27-23 | 08:19 PM
#592
Re: Writers Strike 2023
He doesn't actually have any argument. It's just a word salad vomit of anti-union propaganda.
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Jay G. (07-28-23)
07-28-23 | 08:47 AM
#594
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,698
Received 2,799 Likes
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From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: Writers Strike 2023
I think the scab-written soap opera is the first thing Gizmo has expressed a positive opinion about since the HD DVD era.
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Jay G. (07-28-23)
07-28-23 | 09:18 AM
#595
Suspended
07-28-23 | 09:23 AM
#596
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 31,698
Received 2,799 Likes
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1,861 Posts
From: Greenville, South Cackalack
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Nope, not salty at all, but I know a part of you died when HD DVD did, and you've never been the same since. That's not even a joke or an exaggeration; I know you took HD DVD's collapse very personally, and your behavior on the forum has been substantially different from that point on.
07-28-23 | 09:32 AM
#597
Suspended
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Nope, not salty at all, but I know a part of you died when HD DVD did, and you've never been the same since. That's not even a joke or an exaggeration; I know you took HD DVD's collapse very personally, and your behavior on the forum has been substantially different from that point on.
07-28-23 | 09:58 AM
#598
Re: Writers Strike 2023
Holy crap, it has almost been 20 years since HD-DVD was released. What have I been doing with my life?
07-28-23 | 11:25 AM
#600
DVD Talk Hero