LorenzoL

dex14

Adam Tyner

If you're Ultra HD-capable, Vinegar Syndrome put out Ebola Syndrome on UHD BD.

dex14

Of the blurred images (from left to right), 1. not sure 2. Miami Vice, 3. Snake and Crane Arts of Shaolin re-release 4. Gorgeous

dex14

LorenzoL

dex14

On the bottom of their site where they normally tease upcoming, they have a shot of Battle Creek Brawl. Another re-release. Don't be surprised when they do this with all 4 of those original JC releases.

dex14

LorenzoL

Very disappointed by 88 Films and VS! Logan is a dirtbag to say it mildly.

Brian T

Unreal. Had a feeling he'd be exhumed at some point. Have people finally marginalized his indiscretions to such a degree that these companies figure their reputations will be a-ok? Sounds like "Irongod2112" would only have a problem if there was a conviction. Clearly Bey's still got pals in the HK industry, and these home-vid business who see value in either new contributions from him (or maybe repurposing the old stuff he did?) regardless of the women who literally suffered as a result of his actions. Hell, mention his name in a negative light on YouTube or other social media and inevitably you'll hear from a Hong Kong Legends or Dragon Dynasty obsessive or two who rate owning their completist disc collections more highly than his involvement in their supplements, much of which was produced (especially the DD stuff) while he was indulging his dark side in the HK industry.

Interesting comments under that tweet, btw. Tempted to skim that Blu-ray.com thread but from the sounds of it even the mods there are pro-Bey, deleting disparaging remarks and banning people. WTF?

I do have to wonder if these companies have actually been working with Logan longer than they're admitting, simply because he (apparently) still has connections in the HK industry and can negotiate access for interviews, etc. Makes me cringe to think what we'll probably find out as this uncoils.

I've been buying a lot of Blu-rays from Hong Kong lately, upgrading old favourites from ancient, non-anamorphic DVDs, and also picking up as many of the new HK movies I can (a rather lonely pursuit, it seems). Panorama, in particular, is a great resource as they have their own web store and feature a lot of stuff 50% off, including many of the 'Hong Kong Classic Movies' line of Golden Harvest classics. Even before this Logan news, I've been getting a little overwhelmed at the exhaustive amount of supplements being produced for these UK and US pretty-boxed and slipcovered super-duper limited editions, in particular how much of it is redundant. Two or three friggin' commentaries for every film? Scads of 'discussions' with the usual 'expert' suspects? Really? And now Logan’s old stuff is probably getting reused and he’s being contracted for new stuff in HK? Yeesh. In theory, some of the ‘newer’ contributors of supplemental features should absolutely take issue with this, or risk association. I know Mike Leeder in particular has long been vocal about his strong dislike of Logan.

Anyway, the Hong Kong discs aren't always perfect (some upscaling still going on, and 5.1 soundtracks here and there instead of 2.0), but they’re overall decent to excellent (if largely supplement-free), but news like this just makes me feel like I'm on the right track. And there's just . . . something . . . about knowing they're actually from Hong Kong!

dex14

A bunch of their contributors have made statements that they will no longer be working with 88 for the time being.

Adam Tyner

Yeah, I've seen a slew of those announcements pop up in my Twitter feed. (At least 3 so far?) And while I realize this is about another label, this won't be affecting Vinegar Syndrome:

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rocket1312

Well that escalated quickly. If the guys at 88 (and I believe 88 is actually just two guys) had taken five seconds to canvas the room before going into business with Logan, they would have realized what was going to happen and could have easily avoided this situation. Whatever one thinks of Logan's talent or insight, I can't imagine he brings anything to the table that is worth all of this.

That said, I'm always conflicted when situations like this present themselves. On one hand Logan is likely guilty of at least some of what he was accused of and I don't wish to minimize his alleged victims in any way. I also totally respect the various collaborators not wanting to be associated with him. Especially guys like Leeder and Venema who are based in HK and likely know Logan and/or many of the people involved. I'm sure someone like Leeder probably knows more than what's been made public.

However, I also think Logan has a right to put food on his table and it's weird to me that random people on the internet feel entitled to dictate what he can and can't do to make a living. I understand the optics of it all, but practically speaking, what difference does it make if he's making a living pumping gas, working at an insurance company or helping to produce special features on a Blu-ray? None of that changes what did or didn't happen. Like is it ok for him to work as long as the job isn't "public" and we can pretend he isn't around? Or is it that he can't work in a field even tangentially related to the HK film industry? Do people just want him reduced to panhandling in the streets? I'm not trying to paint him as the victim in any of this and people certainly have the right to vote with their wallets, but I've never quite been able to understand what exactly the endgame is that people are hoping for.

Brian T

These kinds of 'devil's advocate' approached are understandable -- if far too common -- but saying that someone like Logan should be shunned from the industry with which he was once associated should not automatically be interpreted as a desire to see him panhandling on the streets. I'm sure he's picked up enough skills -- management skills even -- that he could easily come back down to the ranks of the great unwashed and still put food on the table. Lots of people switch careers mid-life for far less disgraceful reasons. Bey never really switched. He just kept trying to produce movies with diminishing influence and success (and more allegations post-Weinstein, as I recall).

The end game is simple: he had his time in the spotlight, he blew it, he's been supplanted by a large number of equally passionate and far less self-involved super-fans (essentially) who have little to no history of working in the HK industry to boast about (Leeder excepted) and who are capable of producing the same quality and imparting literally the same information that he did. He needs to let it go. It's not like he made Hong Kong movies, or was some kind of global celebrity. He was just fortunate to ride the same wave a lot of us did back in the 80's, only he rode it to Hong Kong and carved out a comfortable little niche for himself as an "expert" (easily debatable) when not a lot of people were capable of or willing to go all in. Hell, he was one part of the equation of my own unending love for Hong Kong cinema. But the associations with noxious, entitled behaviour were pretty strong and well-reported, and I see no problem with his penance being a total professional disassociation from Hong Kong cinema in the eyes of new and existing fans, and particularly from the companies that are increasingly taking larger and larger chunks of their income for these crazily tricked-out products.

Bey Logan would have survived a change of careers if he'd truly wanted to make one, but he didn't and we shouldn't have to talk about him anymore. Apparently 88 Films thought otherwise, that enough time had passed. As you say, they only needed five seconds.

LorenzoL

LorenzoL

So you think this is the right way to behave yourself? You were accused of harassment and assault and this is what you do?

rocket1312

Huh? I'm not sure how anything I wrote even remotely begins to imply that I would answer yes. In fact I'm rather taken aback that you would even suggest such a thing.

For the record, I don't think 88 should have gone into business with Logan. I'm certainly not defending him (other than his basic human right to pursue a living) nor am I advocating for him to be exhonorated. I was more or less just thinking out loud and trying to work through some of what I believe to be sticky issues that crop up in a situation such as this. I'm uncomfortable with some of the discourse (and I'd include your response to me in that category), even if I ultimately agree with outcome. That is all.

LorenzoL

The last paragraph on your OP is very telling and I’m surprised why you are okay with Logan trying to earn a living as you put it but questioning why “internet” people are upset that he’s working again, reacting strongly to the news and want to dictate what he does. Plus, it’s cute how you throw that line that “I’m not trying to paint him as a victim” crap and questioning the “endgame” of people.

rocket1312

I completely understand why people are reacting the way they are and I defend their right to do so. I wasn't terribly happy when I saw this news pop up. I wasn't outraged, but that's just because I tend to not be outraged. Just not my personality. And yes I'm ok with Logan pursuing a living. He's a human being that is living on this planet and he has the right to try to put food on his table. But I'm also ok with any of these companies saying that they aren't going to work with him. He's certainly not owed anything. He has to sleep in the bed that he made. I'm also ok with consumers voting with their wallet and not supporting any company that employs him.

I think you've misunderstood what my actual concerns/questions are. I'm willing to chalk it up to miscommunication, but if you want to continue to yell at me, knock yourself out.
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dex14

rocket1312

Making a statement about the controversy and throwing in a plug at the end feels a little tacky.

I presume ITLOD4 being a USA exclusive means Eureka will be handling it in the UK. Maybe we already knew that, but I've lost track of who is rumored to be doing what at this point.

Brian T

Indeed, it does feel like an 'oops, but look at these' kinda move. Of course, it's getting to the point where I've just given up hoping for one truly definitive release for just about any HK titles now. Everybody wants their cut. So here's an extra interview to challenge the other company's extra commentary, or an alternate Singapore edit to tempt you from their thirteen audio tracks, and so on. And no matter how great these ITLOD individual releases might be, I remain unconvinced that any one of these companies couldn't have produced a comprehensive boxed set (or two) rather than breaking them up. But, whatever at this point. Gotta keep paying all the supplement providers that they do keep working with, I suppose.

Regarding Logan, though, that Selina Cheng tweet reminds me of my own, comparatively insignificant, run-in with Bey's particular brand of arrogance back in ancient times. This long pre-dated his Weinstein 'adventures' or the situations with actresses on his own films, and was just a post (!!) in a long-defunct but highly respectable 'home video' discussion forum in which I'd criticized his old UK magazine (after having revisited some old issues years later) as being rather more disrespectful toward Hong Kong cinema than I'd remembered, despite the mag's supposed love of martial arts movies. That forum, at the time, was frequented by a number of people who'd go on to careers or sidelines in audio commentaries, interviews, books, essays, that kind of stuff, so there was a fair amount of 'expertise' sprinkled in there amongst the rabble like me. Logan was presumably a lurker over the years. Guess he saw my post and contacted me to backhandedly agree that much of what was in the mag was 'shite', but "hey, look where it got me and what have you done with your life!" Weirdly enough, we emailed our way through it and parted on a reasonably amicable note, but over the years I couldn't shake his initial attitude (which wasn't reflective of any similar posturing in my original comments).

As I noted previously, I don't begrudge anyone the right to earn a living, even after scandalous behaviour takes them down, but to continually try to maintain a career in the same industry should rightly be a fool's game unless their name is thoroughly cleared. His wasn't. He should've just let it go, stop craving the high, the influence,. He could've gone low-profile, lived off savings, got a desk job, whatever. His work will, for better or worse, still be out there for those who choose to cherish it, collect it, trade it, study it, etc., but companies like 88 thinking enough time has passed and it's a-ok to bring him back into the fold like some grizzled veteran need to – as rocket1312 ultimately did note – take five seconds to read the room.

Going back for a sec . . .

I doubt anyone would take issue if he was making a living pumping gas, working at an insurance company, etc. So yeah, to my mind it's ok for him to work somewhere that isn't public and we don't have to see him around, acting like he's still an industry big shot. The man does indeed have a right to eat. But because of his continuous attempts to remain a "name" in the Asian cinema -- largely by taking his act to Mainland China, Vietnam, etc. and mostly making cheap 'battling babes' movies that would seem to be potential candy stores for his proclivities (almost as if the allegations still weren't that significant to him) -- producing special features for Blu-rays should be off limits, honestly, especially when there's a small army of equally resourceful and more dedicated, respectable people who've been doing superior work both before and after Logan imploded. He's just not needed anymore, and 88 Films partnering with him reeked of a misplaced belief in his 'name value' above all else. And some of that was undoubtedly fuelled by other "random people on the internet" who still praise him via Amazon reviews, YouTube comments, etc., often seemingly without any awareness of the sordid history surrounding him (I say that from experience: mentioning it in reply will usually draw one of two responses: "Wow, I never knew that. That changes my whole opinion of him!" or "Who cares; I love his commentaries and Hong Kong Legend DVDs are awesome and Bey rocks!!!" ).

I think 88 made a smart move here, in light of the mass exodus they were facing.

LorenzoL

I guess people have a choice to support 88 Films or not but based on their half assed apology (but not really) tweet while promoting their upcoming releases, my dollars will be spent elsewhere. Will they miss my financial contribution? I doubt it nor it will impact their bottom line, but that’s the choice I’m making.

dex14

It looks like 88 is going to put out The Blonde Fury. Frank Djeng was recently interviewing Rothrock. I wasn't sure for which label, but 88 has the photo from his IG as a story on theirs. Not sure which regions though yet, obviously.

Adam Tyner

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