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-   -   Xbox One Pre-Release Thread: Upscaled to 1080p! (11/22/2013) (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-talk/608896-xbox-one-pre-release-thread-upscaled-1080p-11-22-2013-a.html)

pinata242 05-30-13 08:05 AM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slop101 (Post 11710662)
Who gives a shit that you don't give a shit? I don't.

Good. I'm glad that's settled once and for all. Now we can all focus on actual functional changes and omissions in the hardware and infrastructure rather than worrying about how people play the games they choose to play, whether or not we understand their personal preferences.

MoviePage 05-30-13 08:29 AM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pinata242 (Post 11710804)
Good. I'm glad that's settled once and for all. Now we can all focus on actual functional changes and omissions in the hardware and infrastructure rather than worrying about how people play the games they choose to play, whether or not we understand their personal preferences.

:up:

slop101 05-30-13 09:55 AM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pinata242 (Post 11710804)
Good. I'm glad that's settled once and for all. Now we can all focus on actual functional changes and omissions in the hardware and infrastructure rather than worrying about how people play the games they choose to play, whether or not we understand their personal preferences.

I was just responding to Supermallet's assertion that everyone who didn't like the idea achievements now loves them. I don't see why you had get sand in your vagina over my opinion, which is what 95% of this forum is.

Michael Corvin 05-30-13 10:12 AM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Sand in Your Vagina

My new band name for Rock Band 4. :sad:

Music 05-30-13 10:35 AM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
:lol: then you should pack up your sloppy ass and go...

DRG 05-30-13 11:30 AM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Music (Post 11710407)
Xbox One vs X1


The X1 "platform" sounds similar to the TV functions of Xbox...

http://wwwb.comcast.com/x1

And honestly, those features make much more sense tied in with the DVR/cable box. If the Xbox One could somehow function as a DVR/full featured cable box (it would still a need a bigger HD) their plan for an all-in-one could work, but considering I still need to go to an outside device for true TV functionality I doubt those features would be very useful to me.

Of course, they are probably hoping to ween people off using a DVR and start buying all their favorite shows using their on-demand system. :)

cruzness 05-30-13 12:08 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 11710972)
Sand in Your Vagina

My new band name for Rock Band 4. :sad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Music (Post 11711006)
:lol: then you should pack up your sloppy ass and go...

[Casey Kasem]"Pack Up Your Sloppy Ass" - The new hit single from the album "Motivations to Come Out of the Closet" by Sand in Your Vagina.[/Casey Kasem]

Sounds awesome.

chuckd21 05-30-13 12:48 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 11711089)
And honestly, those features make much more sense tied in with the DVR/cable box. If the Xbox One could somehow function as a DVR/full featured cable box (it would still a need a bigger HD) their plan for an all-in-one could work, but considering I still need to go to an outside device for true TV functionality I doubt those features would be very useful to me.

Of course, they are probably hoping to ween people off using a DVR and start buying all their favorite shows using their on-demand system. :)

Partnering up with cable/satellite systems to get the Xbox One to replace the cable boxes would take a great deal of negotiation and cash.

redbill 05-30-13 12:53 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
cable company's are dicks. major networks can't even figure a way to offer their channels as internet-only streaming options w/o forcing you to have a cable provider. no way xbox gets them to give up the $10-$15 month dvr rental charge.

slop101 05-30-13 01:40 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Interesting opinion piece about backwards compatibility:

Quote:

Backward Thinking
Shunning support for older games isn’t just bad for players—it denigrates the entire art form.
By Joe Keiser • May 30, 2013


Deep in the heart of Doctor Who fandom is a small group dedicated to television show reconstructions—building piecemeal renditions of 1960s-era episodes using photographs of the original broadcasts. They don’t do this because they’re following some bizarre fan doctrine only other Whovians understand. They do it because “wiping,” the practice of erasing seemingly unimportant show recordings to free up archival space or re-use tape, obliterated decades of programming. The television industry practiced wiping broadly until the early 1970s, destroying many early Who episodes permanently. And it wasn’t just silly science fictions shows that were lost. The industry proved remarkably bad at choosing what was worth archiving, erasing influential works like The Avengers and cultural touchstones like Johnny Carson’s Tonight Show.

Such a practice would never occur in television today. It’s generally understood that the medium is a deeply important part of our culture, that we generally do a poor job of determining what from today will have value tomorrow, and that the best practice is to maximize preservation and availability. The industry leaders in most mediums recognize this, and plan accordingly—they never know what they will be able to sell later.

Except in games. Here the industry leaders, Sony and Microsoft, have announced that their upcoming consoles the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One will not be able to play anything their previous machines could play. Sony is making only the vaguest promises about future support of past PlayStation games, and Microsoft’s Xbox chief outright ridiculed the idea of supporting old games, saying, “If you’re backwards compatible, you’re really backwards.”

Later models of the PlayStation 3 eliminated built-in support for PlayStation 2 discs. Yet PS2 games sold via Sony’s PlayStation Store ran just fine, using emulation technology that Sony kept to itself.

No one could argue that the lack of backward compatibility for games is as bad as the outright erasure of television shows; that’s not what we’re seeing here. But what we are seeing is the same cavalier attitude about a medium’s importance that led to all those devastating losses in television—an attitude we now know to be wrong—applied to games. And applied by their most powerful curators, no less. The console makers have espoused an inherent belief in the disposability of the medium to the extent that it’s baked into their marketing messages. Sony offers you a box they claim is gamer-centric but won’t let you play any games you currently admire, and Microsoft offers you an “all-in-one” entertainment machine that will play anything except all the entertainments they have sold you for the past 12 years.

This denigration of games is also visible in how the companies have designed their hardware—not just by what they’ve chosen to leave out, but also by what they’ve chosen to put in.

Consider DVD video support. DVD is an outmoded system by any definition—it’s been mass-market since the ’90s, in decline for years, and a multitude of successor formats have bested it in quality and convenience. You can make all the same arguments against supporting DVD as you would against supporting old games—that most people have moved on to Blu-Ray or streaming, that anyone who cares already has a DVD player. Yet it’s widely understood that both Sony’s PlayStation 4 and Microsoft’s Xbox One will support DVD video—otherwise, they’d be the only Blu-Ray movie-playing devices on the market not to support it.

Now, the argument against backward compatibility in games is that it is too technically challenging (read: expensive) to implement. DVD playback is a technical lark, but that doesn’t mean it’s cheap. It’s actually mind-bogglingly expensive, requiring the licensing of dozens of patents, playback mechanisms, and security algorithms. Even the DVD logo comes with a fee.

Let’s just look at one line item from this cost list: the MPEG-2 decoder license. This is required for DVDs to display any video. (The decoder could conceivably be used for other functionality in the console, but is so old at this point that those uses could all reasonably be described as “backward compatibility”.) The license costs a non-negotiable $2 per unit, which doesn’t seem like much until you spread it out across an entire hardware generation. Let’s assume each company wants to sell at least 50 million consoles, much less than they sold the last time around. Even then, this would be a $100,000,000 spend just for one license, which is only broadly useful for backward compatibility with DVD.

In this context, protests about the infeasibility of finagling backward compatibility for games seem to wither.

Now think about how:

1. The public doesn’t know nearly enough about any of the involved machines to say for sure that backward compatibility is impossible;

2. Engineering challenges look very different from opposite sides of a nine-figure budget;

3. The last time we were told backward compatibility was technically infeasible involved significant shenanigans.

Let’s discuss those shenanigans. Sony’s PlayStation 3 launched in 2006 with full backward compatibility for all previous PlayStation formats. PS2 compatibility was achieved through specialized hardware on the PS3 circuit board. 2008 saw the removal of PS2 compatibility from all future PS3 revisions as a cost-cutting measure, with a cheaper software-only solution being deemed infeasible by Sony. Yet in 2011 Sony began selling PS2 games digitally on PS3. Hackers have since discovered that these games are running via a surprisingly robust backward compatibility solution that could be applied to old PS2 discs, but is not.

I have to surmise from all of this that backward compatibility for games would be possible but expensive. Sony and Microsoft could have been faced with a choice between two expensive forms of backward compatibility, and they chose to support one medium, video, but not the other, games.

This sends a clear message that these companies consider the medium of film and television to be more important than the medium of games. Why would two companies with such enormous investments in games make such a seemingly skewed judgment call? Well, they would probably argue that the culture has made it for them, by giving film and television pride of place in society, and relegating games as a lesser medium. And this may be the case. But when gaming’s industry leaders buy into that broader belief, it hurts the long-term health of the art form.

Games will never be afforded their proper place in society if the groups at the forefront of the medium treat it like a second-class citizen. How could it, if its very champions are selling it out to save on short-term development costs? If Sony and Microsoft want to be in control of the most important form of artistic expression in modern culture, and I think we can assume that they do, then they need to treat games as if they already are that very thing. That requires embracing the history of the medium—supporting the playback of older games even if the cost of doing so is dear. Anything else is disrespectful. It’s backward thinking.

Dan 05-30-13 01:52 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slop101 (Post 11710948)
I was just responding to Supermallet's assertion that everyone who didn't like the idea achievements now loves them. I don't see why you had get sand in your [pussy] over my opinion, which is what 95% of this forum is.

fixed.

As for backwards compatibility... I think it sucks if it's not there, but that's not going to be the dealbreaker for buying the XO. Not for me, anyway.

chuckd21 05-30-13 02:07 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
The author of that article owns a jump to conclusions mat.

Draven 05-30-13 02:14 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Again I ask, how many machines of all the video game consoles were backwards compatible? The Wii, the PS2, PS3 and Xbox 360 (sort of). Any I'm forgetting?

It's such a non-issue I don't even know where to begin.

Music 05-30-13 02:14 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
blah blah blah

wall of text filled with crap

blah blah blah

DRG 05-30-13 02:35 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckd21 (Post 11711202)
Partnering up with cable/satellite systems to get the Xbox One to replace the cable boxes would take a great deal of negotiation and cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbill (Post 11711210)
cable company's are dicks. major networks can't even figure a way to offer their channels as internet-only streaming options w/o forcing you to have a cable provider. no way xbox gets them to give up the $10-$15 month dvr rental charge.

No doubt. Which is why I think some of these interactive TV features make more sense left to the cable providers. You can't really be the 'one box for everything' when you still have to rely on someone else's box.

Matthew Chmiel 05-30-13 02:35 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 11711346)
Again I ask, how many machines of all the video game consoles were backwards compatible? The Wii, the PS2, PS3 and Xbox 360 (sort of). Any I'm forgetting?

  • Atari 7800. Backwards compatible with Atari 2600.
  • DS. Backwards compatible with Game Boy Advance.
  • Game Boy Advance. Backwards compatible with Game Boy.
  • PS2. Backwards compatible with PS.
  • PS3. First two generations backwards compatible with PS2, all backwards compatible with PS.
  • Vita. Backwards compatible with PSP.
  • Wii. Backwards compatible with Gamecube.
  • Wii U. Backwards compatible with Wii.
  • Xbox 360: Backwards compatible with Xbox.

I didn't mention 3DS (backwards compatible with DS) and Game Boy Color (backwards compatible with Game Boy) for obvious reasons.

slop101 05-30-13 02:36 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 11711346)
Again I ask, how many machines of all the video game consoles were backwards compatible? The Wii, the PS2, PS3 and Xbox 360 (sort of). Any I'm forgetting?

It's such a non-issue I don't even know where to begin.

The point isn't so much playing these older games, as it is what effect ignoring these games might have on them in their place in the future. Seems like Nintendo is the only company that seems to embrace their past. Probably due to the fact that their 16-bit catalog is better than anything they've had since.

Matthew Chmiel 05-30-13 02:48 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slop101 (Post 11711397)
The point isn't so much playing these older games, as it is what effect ignoring these games might have on them in their place in the future. Seems like Nintendo is the only company that seems to embrace their past. Probably due to the fact that their 16-bit catalog is better than anything they've had since.

:rimshot:

My problem with non-backwards compatibility is due to digital downloads. The 360 and PS3 really embraced downloadable content. Not only for existing games, but also for games from independent developers (i.e. Minecraft, which is now getting a retail release) or those you simply can't purchase in a retail setting (Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon). Besides the fact that I've invested x number of dollars into physical discs for the 360 and PS3, I've invested y number of dollars into digital content. None which will be playable on the new consoles. The only way I'll be able to play the content is if I keep these devices in my home.

For those who have a wife, my wife did not like the idea: "HEY! LET'S BUY A NEW TELEVISION FOR THE LIVING ROOM FOR THE PS4 AND XBOX ONE AND PUT THE 50" SHARP AQUOS INTO THE BEDROOM WITH THE 360 AND PS3!"

Dan 05-30-13 02:52 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel (Post 11711394)
  • Xbox 360: Backwards compatible with 360.

I would hope so! ;)

chuckd21 05-30-13 02:53 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Nintendo's embracing of their old catalog has nothing to do with their legacy. It has everything to do with making money.

Michael Corvin 05-30-13 02:56 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SomethingMore (Post 11711293)
fixed.

As for backwards compatibility... I think it sucks if it's not there, but that's not going to be the dealbreaker for buying the XO. Not for me, anyway.

Nope, but it's but one bullet point in a list of negative bullet points.

Rob V 05-30-13 03:05 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
The only thing that irks me is the lack of XBLA games not being compatible. I'll be keeping my Xbox 360 to play all those games.

Jay G. 05-30-13 03:11 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
One addition to the list:
  • Atari 7800. Backwards compatible with Atari 2600.
  • Sega Genesis Backwards compatible with Master System (with adapter).
  • Game Boy Advance. Backwards compatible with Game Boy.
  • DS. Backwards compatible with Game Boy Advance.
  • PS2. Backwards compatible with PS.
  • PS3. First two generations backwards compatible with PS2, all backwards compatible with PS.
  • Vita. Backwards compatible with PSP.
  • Wii. Backwards compatible with Gamecube.
  • Wii U. Backwards compatible with Wii.
  • Xbox 360: Backwards compatible with some Xbox games.

I didn't mention 3DS (backwards compatible with DS) and Game Boy Color (backwards compatible with Game Boy) for obvious reasons.[/QUOTE]

RichC2 05-30-13 03:25 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
So basically Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Game Cube, Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast were the only "sequel" systems without BC. To that credit, BC on the 360 was a bit of a joke and then vanished and the PS3 went from Full BC to shit BC to no BC over the last gen.

They need a system like Vudu's Disc-2-Digital deal, you put the disc in your console and get a cloud version of your game for $2.

chuckd21 05-30-13 03:27 PM

Re: Xbox One: This Thread Requires An Always On Internet Connection
 
I don't think you should even be allowed to count cartridge based systems on the list. Those are very simple chips being replicated and added to a motherboard. And stuff like the Power Base for the Genesis or the 2600 adapter for the 5200 were simply the older consoles repackaged into a different piece of plastic.


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