The 1 & Only Nintendo E3 2005 Discussion Thread
#401
Retired
From that I'd say just forget Nintendo and move on and enjoy the offerings from Sony and MS. They seem to have what you're looking for.
And let Nintendo keep making games for those of us that hate all this violent and "extreme" crap on the other consoles.
That way everyone is happy.
And let Nintendo keep making games for those of us that hate all this violent and "extreme" crap on the other consoles.
That way everyone is happy.
#402
If you want violent, Link does love beating up chickens. Just watch out, they get violent back.
#405
Originally Posted by Jeremy517
In Link's Erotic Awakening, you can even competely choke the chicken.
Ahh so that's where this game art came from:
http://kiwi.sprayblogg.no/images/hyl..._192213343.jpg
Boy Nintendo is really going after the mature crowd, I guess JeffSmith's petition is working.
#406
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From: In the Universe.
I definitely don't want their characters to go violent like what Sega is doing with the Hedgehog, but make new characters and new franchises. I don't want them to change Link and Mario to being violent.
One big problem is not everyone can afford to buy multiple consoles like most of us here. So to buy a cube you have great franchises like Mario, Metroid, and Link but there are tons more games that could be on the cube.
It kind of sucks that the third party support is so lacking on the cube. You do have the industry stalwarts like EA who still support the cube but like I said by them pushing this kiddie image, more and more developers will shy away from them until eventually there's no one left.
One big problem is not everyone can afford to buy multiple consoles like most of us here. So to buy a cube you have great franchises like Mario, Metroid, and Link but there are tons more games that could be on the cube.
It kind of sucks that the third party support is so lacking on the cube. You do have the industry stalwarts like EA who still support the cube but like I said by them pushing this kiddie image, more and more developers will shy away from them until eventually there's no one left.
Last edited by jiggawhat; 05-23-05 at 04:21 PM.
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From: In the Universe.
Originally Posted by darkside
To be fair they tried. Eternal Darkness was excellent and they also set up the deal to get Resident Evil 4 exclusive for a year.
The problem is Mature titles don't sell well in general for the Cube. Nintendo has defintely tried to change their image with marketing, but they are stuck with the curse of popular Mario and Zelda titles. I think if they tried a drastic change towards Mature titles they would fail anyway, so I'm not sure what else Nintendo could do. They have the kiddie image and its not going to go away simply by giving Mario a gun the way Sega is trying with one of their hedgehog titles.
The problem is Mature titles don't sell well in general for the Cube. Nintendo has defintely tried to change their image with marketing, but they are stuck with the curse of popular Mario and Zelda titles. I think if they tried a drastic change towards Mature titles they would fail anyway, so I'm not sure what else Nintendo could do. They have the kiddie image and its not going to go away simply by giving Mario a gun the way Sega is trying with one of their hedgehog titles.
As i said in my previous post I would not like them to take their franchises in a violent direction.
#408
DVD Talk Legend
You seem to be really bent on nailing down this "kiddie image" point; like Josh said, if that's not what you're looking for there are plenty of other options. I don't see why you'd want a company to change what they're doing just to please you. I certainly don't want EA to start making quality games and I'm not going off the far end wishing Bungie to make a colorful light-hearted adventure game. I play the games I like to play. If a company doesn't make games I want to play I pass them by and look for what I want, you seem to be so obsessed with Nintendo NOT making the games you want when you could be spending time on enjoying games by other companies.
#409
Retired
The questions I have are:
1. Why does it matter if a game is violent or not? To me all that matter is if it's fun to play. The setting doesn't really matter much to me if the game is fun to play.
2. Why should Nintendo go this direction? MS and Sony offer pleny of violent franchises for gamers like you who want that. It would make good business sense for them to go that way, but if they're happy making a profit making games there way and selling them to their loyal fans why should anyone care?
1. Why does it matter if a game is violent or not? To me all that matter is if it's fun to play. The setting doesn't really matter much to me if the game is fun to play.
2. Why should Nintendo go this direction? MS and Sony offer pleny of violent franchises for gamers like you who want that. It would make good business sense for them to go that way, but if they're happy making a profit making games there way and selling them to their loyal fans why should anyone care?
#410
Originally Posted by jiggawhat
2 titles is not trying very hard.
As i said in my previous post I would not like them to take their franchises in a violent direction.
As i said in my previous post I would not like them to take their franchises in a violent direction.
#411
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From the other thread:
No. the Revolution will accept either the standard DVD or Gamecube DVD discs in the same slot, apparently it is the first of its kind.
goldberg74:Wouldn't that be the place that you put the GameCube games?
#412
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Found this over on Nintendojo main page, thought it was a good read:
Who Wants A Revolution?
posted 5.20.2005 | 6:50pm
No revolution started without a fair amount of hype. At first the masses would hear a whisper of discord, a hint of a new way of thinking. Most would initially ignore it, but the new idea would grow and blossom into louder voices, stronger emotions, and greater visibility, to where it couldn't be put aside. Yet even when everything seemed ready to break loose, there was still a little ways to go: a final build-up that would lead to an explosive wave of energy, sweeping across and challenging our familiar environment.
That's about where we stand right now with the Revolution: on the precipice of that last surge of hype, mystery, and gossip. The final push before the "big idea," be it good or bad, tumbles from the Nintendo bullhorn to provoke the gaming public. While we were hoping to get something more from E3 than what's facing us, we can't say that we've left empty handed. We've seen a prototype of the hardware, learned a major intent of Nintendo's wi-fi plans, and supposedly been given a huge "hint" as to what the biggest secret of Revolution is.
Physically, Nintendo has again designed a machine in the "less is more" philosophy that made the GBA SP so darn cute. While the decision to color it with PS2 colors is questionable, and the character of the machine is so sparse it's almost a wallflower, I commend the attempt to be as sleek as possible. The gaming industry and expectations of its consumers have matured and become more sophisticated. Regardless of the omnipresent child demographic, those ultimately paying money for the machines need to be impressed and don't want to plunk down US$250 for something that looks like a simple toy.
It's also delightful that a large number of classic games will be accessible through a simple internet interface. The selection and per-game download fees remain undisclosed, but the ability to obtain a cherished game of the past rather than track it down on EBay or a shady website is an astute acknowledgement of what older gamers want. If we're willing to shell out $20 - $30 for a pre-chosen compilation of classic games, be they Namco's, Midway's, or some other developer icon's, why not allow us to pick and choose our own compilation and ensure we get exactly what we want at an affordable price?
Further stepping into Nintendo's wi-fi plans, being able to play all wi-fi-enabled first party games for free on Nintendo's custom internet service is exciting for two reasons. One, we're finally getting an offer of online gaming in franchises we've always longed for (likely Mario Kart and Metroid, perhaps Zelda and definitely Smash Bros.), and two, Nintendo's not going to nickel and dime us to play them night after night.
Yet many questions remain, and therefore so does the hype. Like a child who almost caught Santa in the living room before he disappeared up the chimney, we sit frustrated knowing we're going to have to wait who knows how long to have a chance to know and see more. And the biggest of those unresolved questions all start with "why?"
Why would the Revolution only be two to three times more powerful than the GameCube when we've heard numbers like 10 - 15 times more for Xbox 360 and 30 time more for PS3? Why haven't we seen more teaser footage than a glimpse of the next Metroid concept? Why haven't we seen the controller? Why should we still care about Revolution with the prowess of Xbox 360 and PS3 laid plainly before us?
Here's the short answer to all those questions: Nintendo ain't talkin'.
At this point, we only have conjecture and guesses. Yet it's not hard to come up with a few quick guesses.
Regarding the power issue, Nintendo has always been a conservative company. What exactly does "two to three times more powerful" mean in this generation anyway? We've yet to see the final numbers or screens to support this generalization. The GameCube was far from underpowered this generation and in fact was stronger than the PS2. Two to three more times powerful that-- doubling or tripling the capability of that hardware-- is not going to be a disappointment. We'll see significantly and noticeably better graphics, and for comparison's sake, consider the disappointment many Xbox fanatics have had over what some derisively call "Xbox 1.5." Gears of War surely looks amazing, but many other games aren't "quantum leaps" in graphics performance. In fact, you could call many of them only "two to three" times more powerful rather than "10 - 15." At the end of day, it's purely subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Sony has never been one to shy away from hyperbole, either. There's no question that the PS3 is something of a be-all, end-all device with huge potential and staying power. And for many gamers, this is truly a seductive, beautiful device. How will Nintendo compete? We can't even say yet, but we do know one thing for sure: if people were upset and surprised by a US$250 price point for the PSP, you can only imagine the price point for the PS3 hardware.
On the topics of what we haven't seen-- game footage or the controller-- we can guess that the control input for the Revolution is so integral to gameplay that the big secret could be easily revealed just by seeing a few screens. As much as we would have loved to finally had the curtain lifted on the controller, it's easy to justify Nintendo's defensive, protective nature. They were pioneers in a lot of basic gameplay enhancements, be it rumble paks, analog sticks, and wireless controllers. Inevitably, if they have a really solid idea, it won't be long before we can get similar peripherals for XB360 and PS3, and at this point in the next generation race, it's a risky gamble to unveil it.
In Reggie's first speech of the press conference, one slide popped up that was unexpectedly impactful. It was really quite simple: it had a photo of the NES, the original Game Boy, the DS, and the game boxes of Donkey Kong Country and Mario 64. Reggie was saying that Nintendo had "changed the game" with these products. With most marketing-ese, verbiage like that flies right past me and it's mentally disposed of. Yet in this case, there was a large degree of truth to that statement. These were examples of innovation and reinvention that only Nintendo could take credit for. Clearly, they're putting the same kind of faith into Revolution.
There wasn't a landslide of "hot" games or hardware to see in the press conference because Nintendo is inevitably putting the majority of its energy and focus into the Revolution and likely the Game Boy's true successor. If those machines are anywhere near as industry-affecting as the original NES and Game Boy were, then that is the singular reason why we maintain our faith in the Big N, no matter how many 3s, 360s, gigahertz, and teraflops are thrown at us. So let the final build-up begin, Nintendo: we can't wait for the grand reveal.
posted 5.20.2005 | 6:50pm
No revolution started without a fair amount of hype. At first the masses would hear a whisper of discord, a hint of a new way of thinking. Most would initially ignore it, but the new idea would grow and blossom into louder voices, stronger emotions, and greater visibility, to where it couldn't be put aside. Yet even when everything seemed ready to break loose, there was still a little ways to go: a final build-up that would lead to an explosive wave of energy, sweeping across and challenging our familiar environment.
That's about where we stand right now with the Revolution: on the precipice of that last surge of hype, mystery, and gossip. The final push before the "big idea," be it good or bad, tumbles from the Nintendo bullhorn to provoke the gaming public. While we were hoping to get something more from E3 than what's facing us, we can't say that we've left empty handed. We've seen a prototype of the hardware, learned a major intent of Nintendo's wi-fi plans, and supposedly been given a huge "hint" as to what the biggest secret of Revolution is.
Physically, Nintendo has again designed a machine in the "less is more" philosophy that made the GBA SP so darn cute. While the decision to color it with PS2 colors is questionable, and the character of the machine is so sparse it's almost a wallflower, I commend the attempt to be as sleek as possible. The gaming industry and expectations of its consumers have matured and become more sophisticated. Regardless of the omnipresent child demographic, those ultimately paying money for the machines need to be impressed and don't want to plunk down US$250 for something that looks like a simple toy.
It's also delightful that a large number of classic games will be accessible through a simple internet interface. The selection and per-game download fees remain undisclosed, but the ability to obtain a cherished game of the past rather than track it down on EBay or a shady website is an astute acknowledgement of what older gamers want. If we're willing to shell out $20 - $30 for a pre-chosen compilation of classic games, be they Namco's, Midway's, or some other developer icon's, why not allow us to pick and choose our own compilation and ensure we get exactly what we want at an affordable price?
Further stepping into Nintendo's wi-fi plans, being able to play all wi-fi-enabled first party games for free on Nintendo's custom internet service is exciting for two reasons. One, we're finally getting an offer of online gaming in franchises we've always longed for (likely Mario Kart and Metroid, perhaps Zelda and definitely Smash Bros.), and two, Nintendo's not going to nickel and dime us to play them night after night.
Yet many questions remain, and therefore so does the hype. Like a child who almost caught Santa in the living room before he disappeared up the chimney, we sit frustrated knowing we're going to have to wait who knows how long to have a chance to know and see more. And the biggest of those unresolved questions all start with "why?"
Why would the Revolution only be two to three times more powerful than the GameCube when we've heard numbers like 10 - 15 times more for Xbox 360 and 30 time more for PS3? Why haven't we seen more teaser footage than a glimpse of the next Metroid concept? Why haven't we seen the controller? Why should we still care about Revolution with the prowess of Xbox 360 and PS3 laid plainly before us?
Here's the short answer to all those questions: Nintendo ain't talkin'.
At this point, we only have conjecture and guesses. Yet it's not hard to come up with a few quick guesses.
Regarding the power issue, Nintendo has always been a conservative company. What exactly does "two to three times more powerful" mean in this generation anyway? We've yet to see the final numbers or screens to support this generalization. The GameCube was far from underpowered this generation and in fact was stronger than the PS2. Two to three more times powerful that-- doubling or tripling the capability of that hardware-- is not going to be a disappointment. We'll see significantly and noticeably better graphics, and for comparison's sake, consider the disappointment many Xbox fanatics have had over what some derisively call "Xbox 1.5." Gears of War surely looks amazing, but many other games aren't "quantum leaps" in graphics performance. In fact, you could call many of them only "two to three" times more powerful rather than "10 - 15." At the end of day, it's purely subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Sony has never been one to shy away from hyperbole, either. There's no question that the PS3 is something of a be-all, end-all device with huge potential and staying power. And for many gamers, this is truly a seductive, beautiful device. How will Nintendo compete? We can't even say yet, but we do know one thing for sure: if people were upset and surprised by a US$250 price point for the PSP, you can only imagine the price point for the PS3 hardware.
On the topics of what we haven't seen-- game footage or the controller-- we can guess that the control input for the Revolution is so integral to gameplay that the big secret could be easily revealed just by seeing a few screens. As much as we would have loved to finally had the curtain lifted on the controller, it's easy to justify Nintendo's defensive, protective nature. They were pioneers in a lot of basic gameplay enhancements, be it rumble paks, analog sticks, and wireless controllers. Inevitably, if they have a really solid idea, it won't be long before we can get similar peripherals for XB360 and PS3, and at this point in the next generation race, it's a risky gamble to unveil it.
In Reggie's first speech of the press conference, one slide popped up that was unexpectedly impactful. It was really quite simple: it had a photo of the NES, the original Game Boy, the DS, and the game boxes of Donkey Kong Country and Mario 64. Reggie was saying that Nintendo had "changed the game" with these products. With most marketing-ese, verbiage like that flies right past me and it's mentally disposed of. Yet in this case, there was a large degree of truth to that statement. These were examples of innovation and reinvention that only Nintendo could take credit for. Clearly, they're putting the same kind of faith into Revolution.
There wasn't a landslide of "hot" games or hardware to see in the press conference because Nintendo is inevitably putting the majority of its energy and focus into the Revolution and likely the Game Boy's true successor. If those machines are anywhere near as industry-affecting as the original NES and Game Boy were, then that is the singular reason why we maintain our faith in the Big N, no matter how many 3s, 360s, gigahertz, and teraflops are thrown at us. So let the final build-up begin, Nintendo: we can't wait for the grand reveal.
#413
Moderator
Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
No. the Revolution will accept either the standard DVD or Gamecube DVD discs in the same slot, apparently it is the first of its kind.
Genius!
#415
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
Pretty good read. They got the price of the PSP wrong - its only $200 for the unit itself - but they make some good points.
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From: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition
Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
The PSP can now be bought stand alone for $200?
#417
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
No, that won't be announced until this fall for holiday sales. The fact that you can only purchase it in bundle form doesn't remove that fact that alone the unit costs $200.
Bullshit it doesn't. How can the unit "cost" $200 if I can't buy it for that? Those accessories packed in our soley to reduce Sony's loss on each sale. The total cost of all the accesories is likely less then $10 for Sony where as the unit it self is estimated to cost over $300 to produce.
By your logic the DS cost is closer to $100 then $150 when you subtract the metroid game demo, strap, instruction book, registration card, packaging, etc.
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From: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition
Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
Bullshit it doesn't. How can the unit "cost" $200 if I can't buy it for that? Those accessories packed in our soley to reduce Sony's loss on each sale. The total cost of all the accesories is likely less then $10 for Sony where as the unit it self is estimated to cost over $300 to produce.
By your logic the DS cost is closer to $100 then $150 when you subtract the metroid game demo, strap, instruction book, registration card, packaging, etc.

The logic I am using is that a bundle does not determine unit price. EB and Gamestop only sell bundles for newly released hardware. Does that mean that a $300 PS2 is now really $500 because it is bundles with 3 games and an extra controller? No! Its still a $300 console! Thus, it is only a $200 gaming device bundled in with $50 worth of accessories.
#419
Your logic is flawed because you don't have to buy it at EB.
#420
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
You can buy it in Japan 19,800 Yen which is $184. Thats the unit itself with all the same crap as the DS pack-ins (minus the demo). I do not count those as accessories, though maybe you do.
The logic I am using is that a bundle does not determine unit price. EB and Gamestop only sell bundles for newly released hardware. Does that mean that a $300 PS2 is now really $500 because it is bundles with 3 games and an extra controller? No! Its still a $300 console! Thus, it is only a $200 gaming device bundled in with $50 worth of accessories.
The logic I am using is that a bundle does not determine unit price. EB and Gamestop only sell bundles for newly released hardware. Does that mean that a $300 PS2 is now really $500 because it is bundles with 3 games and an extra controller? No! Its still a $300 console! Thus, it is only a $200 gaming device bundled in with $50 worth of accessories.
As spainlinx0 pointed out, I don't have to buy a bundle to get a PS2, where as I have to buy the Sony generated bundle no matter what.
I realize the PSP is cheaper in Japan, and surprise! look where the larger handheld market is, of course Sony is going to be more aggressive in their price there.
Tell me, where can I get this Sony Kool-aid? Anyway, back on topic to Nintendo products...
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From: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition

One for each of you.
I couldn't buy a PS2 at launch for anything less than $700 the first month after launch... does this mean it was a $700 Console? No! It was still only a $300 console which was grossly under supplied.
My logic works. Yours does not. Bundles can be broken down and the pieces individually valued. That is why it is labelled a bundle.
#423
Who are you going to sell those accessories to? Other console owners. But wait, you can't because they already have those accessories. So you can break it down all you want, but you are paying for those items whether you like it or not. And yes you would buy it for 300 if you waited on line for new shipments.
#424
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Originally Posted by joshd2012
My logic works. Yours does not. Bundles can be broken down and the pieces individually valued. That is why it is labelled a bundle.
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From: Blu-Ray: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Petition
Order it from Japan, it will be $200. They are giving you a choice 3 choices. Buy the value pack for $250, buy the unit alone for $200 in Japan, or wait til the Fall and buy it in the states for $200. And yes, people are selling the bundled accesories on Ebay to other people.
I make a comment on an article, point out an inconsistency, and everyone jumps at the fact that the PSP costs $50 less than they expected. Who the fuck cares? Well, apparently all of you do! It was enough for 3 of you go to completely off topic just to address an issue that should give two shits about if all you want to talk about is Nintendo and E3. Apparently, disagreeing with me has become a hotter issue than any Revolution from Nintendo.
I make a comment on an article, point out an inconsistency, and everyone jumps at the fact that the PSP costs $50 less than they expected. Who the fuck cares? Well, apparently all of you do! It was enough for 3 of you go to completely off topic just to address an issue that should give two shits about if all you want to talk about is Nintendo and E3. Apparently, disagreeing with me has become a hotter issue than any Revolution from Nintendo.



