It was always "Clone Wars" as far back as the novelization and Marvel Comics adaption.

The main question was what exactly the Clone Wars were. The prevailing ideas before the prequels came to fruition were that Jedi Knights were being cloned for the war effort, or they were wars fought by armies of clones (that later became Stormtroopers). At one time, people theorized that Obi-Wan Kenobi was a clone designation (OB-1) and that Ben Kenobi and Obi-Wan were two different people, one a clone and one the original.

Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire" novel trilogy went with both ideas of cloned Jedi Knights and cloned armies. In the early development of the first novel, the cloned Jedi Joruus C'Baoth was to have been a clone of Obi-Wan Kenobi, but Lucas nixed that idea. And the "Dark Force" in the second novel was a fleet of ships manned by cloned crews.

ETA: Had this tab open for too long and other posters beat me to the punch.

Just to be clear, I 'm not saying such complaints don't exist, just that they're not as prevelant.

And there's certainly a number of valid arguments about the differences between Kennedy and Feige, I just don't think gender is one of them, which is what I was responding to.

Just to be clear, Ahsoka was George Lucas's idea.

https://geektyrant.com/news/dave-fil...nakins-padawan
One thing Filoni did was to try and incorporate George's crazy ideas into a story that makes sense. And then he doesn't abandon/ignore it.

Yep, that was also George Lucas's idea.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=273146652363542

Whatever was who's idea is irrelevant. Who brought them from paper to screen? Who keeps doing that?

George Lucas is not some inerrant genius that we should all be looking back to for some wise guidance on this IP. He's an anti-establishment guy who had some neat ideas and was able to execute them well (mostly the more hand's off he got) and then became the establishment. Frankly, I care fuck-all for what George Lucas thinks about Star Wars at this point. If he wanted to explore his more mystical ideas for the Force, he could have woven them into the Prequels or kept the rights and done his own thing. Dave Filoni buys into the bullshit that is auteur theory and keeps perpetuating his career by convincing people he has some great insight because he listened to Lucas ramble on and was too afraid to challenge a friend he looked up to.

Which would have been a lot more entertaining direction for the prequels than what we got.

ALL of it was George's idea. That doesn't mean all the trees in the forest belong to the guy who planted a seed.

George came up with an idea. Filoni is the one who molded it and brought it to life and kept molding it and kept pushing it and kept going back to it.

Admittedly, my experience with Ahsoka is through Rebels and the Ahsoka series. I don't have an issue with the character, though she, like many things in the universe, is a piece that doesn't fit nicely into the puzzle. I cannot stomach Clone Wars because the characters are annoying, not just Ahsoka. That is Filoni, not George, and not a result of "Sky Guy" needing a Padawan. The concept makes sense -- the downfall of the Jedi came through this hubris -- it is the execution that sucks. That is Filoni.

For what that is worth . . . Yes, but the Prequels weren't even the worst thing to come of out of the clone conceit, particularly when the conceit returned . . . somehow.

Here's a other way to think of it, folks:

The boss told the enployee to implement his idea, so the employee did it.

I mean, what else do people expect would happen, in that scenario?

Did Filioni have much choice? Lucas was delivering directives on characters and storylines, and the parts of them people hate seem to come from him.

And at this point Ahsoka is a fan favorite. It's also maybe not surprising that Filinoi got attached to the character after dealing with her for so many seasons. But the only reason we got the Ahsoka spin-off was because her initial appearance in The Mandalorian, which could've easily been a one-off, got a strong positive reaction.

I certainly think the same. George Lucas has had some horrible ideas about Star Wars, but he was the one in charge and still coming up with ideas when Filoni started working on Star Wars with The Clone Wars.

But the argument was that Filoni has bad ideas, but those two ideas weren't his.

How far into it did you get? George Lucas was reportedly heavily involved in it at the beginning, giving notes, not just ideas, and the first few seasons are considered the worst. By most accounts, it gets a lot better in the later seasons, when George stepped back and Filoni had more creative control.

When I watched The Clone Wars, I used a few guides showing "essential episodes/arcs" and IMDB average scores to skip over the worst of the show, which was primarily in the first few seasons.

That's how I finally watched, and found a way to enjoy, The Clone Wars, too.

I watched and enjoyed The Clone Wars from the beginning. But yeah first few seasons there were a number of clunkers but also some really good episodes/arcs. It really got going for me in the 3rd season.

I think you mean "clankers."

Right... clankers!

Peak Clone wars content for me is the last season and a half or so of the Clone Wars through the Bad Batch. Pretty much from shortly before the execution of Order 66 to the immediate aftermath and long term repercussions (Bad Batch). This would include Rebels, but the clones are a less of a focus there outside of Rex popping up.

Semantics. One has bad ideas and the other decides to make those bad ideas a reality. So who's the worst offender?

When I get a bad pizza, I don't blame the guy who invented pizza, I blame the cook who made it. There seems to be a conflagration of "concept" and "execution" when we are using the word "idea."


I have tried a few times, and I cannot get past the first few episodes. I think once I may have gotten a few more in, but I also may have fallen asleep.

I have pondered trying it that way, and I would be willing to try. I don't want to not like it . . . I want more GOOD Star Wars in my life. I'm just not convinced it is good Star Wars. As I said, I managed to get through Rebels. While I had some issues, I enjoyed it overall. I have even tried The Bad Batch and couldn't get through the first episode of it either. It is just too childish. Sometimes, fantasy is better served by the limitations of live action rather than the freedom of animation.

So you think giving Anakin an apprentice in Ahsoka, and creating the Father-Son-Daughter Mortis Gods of The Force, were good ideas?


I wrote this up in The Clone Wars thread back when I watched it.

The person in charge who came up with the ideas and dictated they be used is the worst offender, vs. the person who didn't have a choice on whether to use those ideas or not, and just tried the best he could to make them not terrible.

[QUOTE=Michael Corvin;14562955]Peak Clone wars content for me is the last season and a half or so of the Clone Wars through the Bad Batch. Pretty much from shortly before the execution of Order 66 to the immediate aftermath and long term repercussions (Bad Batch). This would include Rebels, but the clones are a less of a focus there outside of Rex popping.[quote]
That was pretty much all Filoni without Lucas sticking his nose in, especially Rebels, which came about after Disney bought Lucasfilm.

It's weird that people don't like Filoni, while liking what he had the most influence on. Even if you don't like early The Clone Wars and don't buy that Lucas's meddling was the reason it was bad, it still shows Filoni improving as the show goes on. It was only his second show directing (he directed some episodes of Avatar: The Last Airbender), and his first show running gig.

I'd be interested to know how much influence Filoni had on Rogue One -- because that movie, to me, is the only really good content (movie or show) we've had (save a few episodes of Mandalorian) since Disney took over. I couldn't care less about the cartoons and every TV series outside of Andor has been lackluster, IMO.

Filoni wasn't involved with the movie, to my recollection. He also doesn't have a credit on Andor. The driving creative force for that movie and show seems to be Tony Gilroy, who did a rewrite and some ghost directing on reshoots for Rouge One after the first cut didn't hit, and is the writer and showrunner on Andor.

That said, he seems even less likely a choice to head the studio than Jon Favreau or Dave Filoni.

I absolutely remember that rumor! Ah, the innocence of my youth.

Yeah, man . . . I have no idea what the hell any of that meant. So, I'm going with "no?"

I said the idea of giving Anakin a Padawan was in line with the same hubris that caused the downfall of the Jedi.

Thank you for the episode guide suggestion. I have Spring Break in a few weeks and I may give it a go.

So you're blaming the inventor, not the cook.

It's sort of like if you dislike Hawaiian pizza. It doesn't matter how well the cook makes it, you're not going to like it, because you dislike the concept, not the execution.

Dave Filoni had to work with bad ideas George Lucas forced on the show, at least at first. As Lucas stepped back, Filoni had more creative control, and most agree the show got better.

No one really knows how the game is played
The art of the trade
How the sausage gets made
We just assume that it happens
But no one else is in the room where it happens

Ok, whatever. What I am reading here is that George said, "Dave, Anakin needs a Padawan. It only makes sense." Dave ran with it and made the Adventures of Sky Guy and the Fly Girl. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. I only know that every piece of Filoni-involved Star Wars that I have seen has had childish sensibilities and lazy story telling at some point which offended my personal ideas of Star Wars. Some people love those, so all the more power to them. I have had issues with some Lucasian-based Star Wars, but not all.

Maybe you should read more than just what's been posted in this forum if you want a more complete picture.

Even just Wikipedia has more info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano
Some more info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/co...iloni_created/
George Lucas was driving a lot of the story early on for The Clone Wars.

I mean, TV series have to produce multiple stories over multiple seasons, they're not all going to be bangers. But also, how far into those shows did you get? As I noted before, The Clone Wars got better over time. I also think Rebels did as well.