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Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

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Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Old 02-11-21, 01:47 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by fujishig
You mean I can't jokingly ask a pregnant employee if "she's going to keep the baby" then make fun of her tattoos and religion? What is this world coming to? I mean I didn't touch her. Snowflakes.

And I'm sure there are lots of people who actually think exactly like that (not anyone here, though)
Right?!

Also, Religion and Pregnancy...those two are actual protected statuses in most places in America so Whedon fucked up.

Share What are Discrimination, Harassment, Harassing Conduct, and Retaliation?

Discrimination
The differential treatment of an individual or group of people based on their race, color, national origin, religion, sex (including pregnancy and gender identity), age, marital and parental status, disability, sexual orientation, or genetic information.
Old 02-11-21, 02:06 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I've been working in sports television for about 24 years now. Things right now for my line of work are very different from the time I started. Back when I started, I had to deal with some pretty awful producers, directors, Executive Producers and even talent who were absolutely awful to the behind the scenes personnel including me. I've been yelled it, berated, called all kinds of names, talked down to, made to feel very small and worthless. It was a terrible time and I thought many times about quitting this and I thought this is BS and I don't need this shit. I know a lot of you guys don't have to deal with people in your lines of work, but when you work in television (scripted, sports or news), it's a heavy teamwork and collaborative environment. You need to get along with the people you work with or you're going to fuck up and be miserable. You don't want to go to work with morale being low. There were many times when I went to work in the late 90s and early 2000s where I hated going to work and hated seeing certain people because they would just treat me like shit. I only make this comparison because I see some parallels of what people who work in scripted TV and work under alleged difficult and abusive people like Joss Whedon and what I had to go through early in my career. Now that a lot of time has passed and I'm much older, I've gotten better at my job and I think I have pretty thick skin and can deal with difficult situations better and not buckle under pressure. But now in 2021, this kind of treatment and work environment is no longer tolerated. That's why you hear the word "Toxic" work environment mentioned a lot when someone does abuse their authority. Just because you're a designated "leader" it doesn't give you the right to make your team feel small when they don't do what you want. Sorry for the ramble, just had to share some thoughts.

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Old 02-11-21, 04:11 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
Right?!

Also, Religion and Pregnancy...those two are actual protected statuses in most places in America so Whedon fucked up.
on the other hand it's an American tradition that men are the only experts on the female productive system, so perhaps he was just lending her his male expertise on the matter of pregnancy.
Old 02-11-21, 04:36 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by fujishig
You mean I can't jokingly ask a pregnant employee if "she's going to keep the baby" then make fun of her tattoos and religion? What is this world coming to? I mean I didn't touch her. Snowflakes.

And I'm sure there are lots of people who actually think exactly like that (not anyone here, though)
The problem is we’ve all become too desensitized to this too quickly. Rather than easing into the topic we were thrown into the deep end with the, HOLY SHIT!, Harvey Weinstein stuff from the very get-go.

Now everything that isn’t full on raping actresses or jerking off into a potted plant while an actress is made to watch, is just “meh”.

Whedon may not be Harvey Weinstein but he still acted completely inappropriately and should be disciplined for it. Does Whedon belong in prison? Probably not but he does need to know that his behavior won’t be tolerated.

Same goes for any other director/producer/etc. out there.
Old 02-11-21, 04:50 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by DJariya
I've been working in sports television for about 24 years now. Things right now for my line of work are very different from the time I started. Back when I started, I had to deal with some pretty awful producers, directors, Executive Producers and even talent who were absolutely awful to the behind the scenes personnel including me. I've been yelled it, berated, called all kinds of names, talked down to, made to feel very small and worthless. It was a terrible time and I thought many times about quitting this and I thought this is BS and I don't need this shit. I know a lot of you guys don't have to deal with people in your lines of work, but when you work in television (scripted, sports or news), it's a heavy teamwork and collaborative environment. You need to get along with the people you work with or you're going to fuck up and be miserable. You don't want to go to work with morale being low. There were many times when I went to work in the late 90s and early 2000s where I hated going to work and hated seeing certain people because they would just treat me like shit. I only make this comparison because I see some parallels of what people who work in scripted TV and work under alleged difficult and abusive people like Joss Whedon and what I had to go through early in my career. Now that a lot of time has passed and I'm much older, I've gotten better at my job and I think I have pretty thick skin and can deal with difficult situations better and not buckle under pressure. But now in 2021, this kind of treatment and work environment is no longer tolerated. That's why you hear the word "Toxic" work environment mentioned a lot when someone does abuse their authority. Just because you're a designated "leader" it doesn't give you the right to make your team feel small when they don't do what you want. Sorry for the ramble, just had to share some thoughts.
Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
The problem is we’ve all become too desensitized to this too quickly. Rather than easing into the topic we were thrown into the deep end with the, HOLY SHIT!, Harvey Weinstein stuff from the very get-go.

Now everything that isn’t full on raping actresses or jerking off into a potted plant while an actress is made to watch, is just “meh”.

Whedon may not be Harvey Weinstein but he still acted completely inappropriately and should be disciplined for it. Does Whedon belong in prison? Probably not but he does need to know that his behavior won’t be tolerated.

Same goes for any other director/producer/etc. out there.

The funny thing is that we expect more shocking things here because of Weinstein, sure, but as a society we are more sensitive than ever about workplace harrassment (probably due in no small part to lawsuits).

I'm pretty sure most of us have some kind of annual workplace training on stuff like this. And it's usually like the most insane scenarios about how not to make others feel uncomfortable. Like things that should be common sense by now. But the reason we have that is because workplaces even 20 years ago were full of that stuff (heck, probably some workplaces are still full of this stuff).
Old 02-11-21, 04:54 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by DJariya
I've been working in sports television for about 24 years now. Things right now for my line of work are very different from the time I started. Back when I started, I had to deal with some pretty awful producers, directors, Executive Producers and even talent who were absolutely awful to the behind the scenes personnel including me. I've been yelled it, berated, called all kinds of names, talked down to, made to feel very small and worthless.
Doesn't surprise me at all, and I'm sure you've also noticed how these same people (especially the on-air talent) can go from an expletive-laden rant that would make Andrew Dice Clay blush, to the cheery bubbly persona you see on screen. I used to work a side gig where the head honcho was also a TV news anchor. It was amazing how fast she could go from "You MF'n..filth flarn filth.." to "Good evening everyone and welcome to the news at 5". I sometimes mentioned that I knew her, and the person I talked to would describe some story where she'd read the riot act to them and I would chuckle "yup, that's her all right".

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
The problem is we’ve all become too desensitized to this too quickly. Rather than easing into the topic we were thrown into the deep end with the, HOLY SHIT!, Harvey Weinstein stuff from the very get-go.

Now everything that isn’t full on raping actresses or jerking off into a potted plant while an actress is made to watch, is just “meh”.

Whedon may not be Harvey Weinstein but he still acted completely inappropriately and should be disciplined for it. Does Whedon belong in prison? Probably not but he does need to know that his behavior won’t be tolerated.

Same goes for any other director/producer/etc. out there.
It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of talent is just inured to this kind of behavior that they don't even pretend to put up a fight or say no, which is why some of the details are lacking. Like if say, Joss Whedon did have sexual relations with any of his actresses that was unwanted, it's highly possible they just went along and even seemed enthusiastic, but only because they knew that raising the slightest objection would mean the end of their run on the show. And again, the conditioning is always a factor. Ever see Winter's Bone? (If not, you should). Even though Jennifer Lawrence's character definitely challenges the restrictive norms of her backwoods community, there's one scene that really stuck with me. Early on she's talking to a friend, but from outside on the porch. She can't come into the house until the friend's husband allows her to. And there's no protesting or even eye-rolling at the nature of this arrangement, that's the way it is and she's just used to it. I suspect that many actresses are conditioned similarly. Have an audition? Memorize your lines, be prepared to have multiple accents and versions of the character, and spit out your gum before the BJ. With all three aspects equally important.
Old 02-11-21, 04:57 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
The problem is we’ve all become too desensitized to this too quickly. Rather than easing into the topic we were thrown into the deep end with the, HOLY SHIT!, Harvey Weinstein stuff from the very get-go.

Now everything that isn’t full on raping actresses or jerking off into a potted plant while an actress is made to watch, is just “meh”.

Whedon may not be Harvey Weinstein but he still acted completely inappropriately and should be disciplined for it. Does Whedon belong in prison? Probably not but he does need to know that his behavior won’t be tolerated.

Same goes for any other director/producer/etc. out there.
Until now it looks like this is something Whedon could come back from, when he adjusts his behavior. It's not criminal as far as we know, but times have change and being successful isn't an excuse anymore. A way back for someone like Kevin Spacey is much more difficult.
Old 02-11-21, 05:27 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

The only thing I know about this Whedon person is that he seems to have a cult-like following. He was involved in the film Cabin in the Woods, which I very much enjoyed, but that's the extent that I have seen of his work. It's not much of a surprise that so many directors are bullying assholes or feel free to commit sexual offences, given the fawning they receive from the film cognoscenti and others in the industry.
Old 02-11-21, 07:02 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion


I saw a supposed Twitter post from Michelle T that expanded on her original "statement" that said that a rule was put into place that Joss was not allowed to be alone in a room with Michelle ever again. If true, that sounds pretty bad.
Old 02-11-21, 07:23 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I'm trying not to make fun of her, because the accusations are serious, but did she have a stroke or is this some kind of twitter syntax I'm unfamiliar with?
Old 02-11-21, 07:47 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Looked at her Instagram, and it looks she adds periods in the middle of sentences to add emphasis. She did it on another post that I saw, but not all of them.

I don't know what the Hollywood rules are about working with kids, but the "he's not allowed in a room alone with Michelle ever again" is pretty damning. Especially the "ever again."
Old 02-11-21, 09:04 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I'm a huge fan of his work. Buffy was one of my favorite shows of all time and I loved The Avengers, Cabin in the Woods, etc. I remember when Cordelia's character got butchered and it was head-scratching back then, but makes so much more sense now. I had noticed Gellar hasn't worked with him again and found it strange since he uses Amy Acker and somewhat Eliza Dushku in a lot of his stuff. I had thought Ray Fisher was exaggerating, but I guess not. It sucks when someone can entertain you, but treats everyone behind the scenes like garbage. I'm not a fan of cancel culture like the Carano thing, but this is directly work-related and he shouldn't be put in charge of anything ever again until he has time to change his POV. I hope he saved his pennies. Whedon just needs to have someone knock him the F out.
Old 02-11-21, 10:26 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

This whole thing is fucked and doesn't seem to be getting enough press.
Old 02-12-21, 12:13 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Unclejosh

I saw a supposed Twitter post from Michelle T that expanded on her original "statement" that said that a rule was put into place that Joss was not allowed to be alone in a room with Michelle ever again. If true, that sounds pretty bad.
I'm confused. Is she talking about herself or Sarah?
Old 02-12-21, 12:29 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

With what I've heard so far, Whedon sort of reminds me of David O. Russell. They're both absolute HR nightmares. There were stories from Three Kings and then the really infamous stuff from Huckabees, the screaming tantrums and abusive, boorish behavior. Everyone thought his career was dead, and it was - for about 5 years. Then The Fighter came out, it won a couple of Oscars and he seemingly was forgiven.

I imagine that Whedon, like many directors and show runners, has a massive ego yet riddled with equally massive insecurities. I'm not saying that to excuse him or say it's all right. It is more that it doesn't surprise me that many of those people are often accused of this kind of behavior.

I've also always gotten the impression that TV and movie sets are kind of boys clubs. I can totally see a comedy show runner asking if an actress is keeping the baby in such a way that he thinks he's being "edgy" and then getting angry because the pregnancy is an affront to the creative vision he had for that character.

And for the record, I was once and huge Whedon fan boy. I've sort of cooled on him over the years, but I think that's mainly to do with his lack of consistent output. I've always wondered about his Marvel experience. He makes two of the highest grossing movies of all time and then follows that with almost nothing. Until the Justice League assignment, which always seemed weird to me. Yes, I know the circumstances of Snyder needing to be replaced, but it seemed like such a backward step for him. That's not meant to be a knock on DC, more that it felt like he was taking someone's leftovers.

I also think it's interesting to note that Whedon has consistently had women on his writing staff, and many of those women worked with him on multiple shows. I'd be very curious to hear what some of them say about the work environment. Does it go back to the old treating actors like cattle trope?

And for those saying you've never seen any of his work. You have in some way. I can pretty much guarantee it. He's credited as a writer on Toy Story and Alien Resurrection, and he has worked as an uncredited script doctor on many prominent films, like X-Men, Speed, and Twister.
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Old 02-12-21, 02:01 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by clckworang
And for the record, I was once and huge Whedon fan boy. I've sort of cooled on him over the years, but I think that's mainly to do with his lack of consistent output. I've always wondered about his Marvel experience. He makes two of the highest grossing movies of all time and then follows that with almost nothing. Until the Justice League assignment, which always seemed weird to me. Yes, I know the circumstances of Snyder needing to be replaced, but it seemed like such a backward step for him. That's not meant to be a knock on DC, more that it felt like he was taking someone's leftovers.
You're right, that's strange. He took Snyder's leftovers, probably changed a lot of his stuff, but isn't even credited as the movie's director. One would think that the director of The Avengers and Avengers: Age of Ultron could choose from any project he wants. But I've to say Whedon lost me after Age of Ultron, he interviews seemed ungrateful and a bit sour and not at all enthusiastic. Making such a big movie is a long road and I'm sure there's a lot of pressure from Marvel/Disney, but in some interviews it felt like making a second Avengers movie was a punishment and not a reward for his success with the first one.
I'm curious why we don't here anything from those to movies. Perhaps his behavior had been better or Kevin Feige has a better lit on it than Warner and there is a good reason why he hasn't worked with Marvel again, while the Russos made 4 movies.
Old 02-12-21, 02:35 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Old 02-12-21, 03:24 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Eliza Dushku supports Charisma Carpenter but she doesn't support her claims, she says she didn't know.
Old 02-12-21, 05:15 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

It's not like they're required to make a statement, but I find it curious that most of the male leads on those shows have stayed quiet. J. August Richards is the only one I've seen publicly offer support so far. I think the only female leads who haven't commented in some way are Hannigan and Acker (both in Whedon's inner circle of actor friends).
Old 02-12-21, 06:29 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

James Marsters related a story where Whedon came off dicky to him.

Maybe the men aren't saying anything because they weren't there when whatever went on went on; seems like he's mostly creepy around women.
Old 02-12-21, 09:55 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Sooooo....how do I initiate a username change?
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Old 02-12-21, 10:09 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Dushku, now looks like an Olsen.
Old 02-12-21, 10:52 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by joe_b
J. August Richards is the only one I've seen publicly offer support so far.
Anthony Head has as well, although it's clumsier by comparison:

"I've been up most of the night thinking, what did I miss? This is not a man saying he didn't see it so it didn't happen. I am gutted - I am seriously gutted."
"Charisma's post, the first post was about Angel and I was long gone, but there are other posts that make me think how on earth did I not know this is going on?"
"I'm really sad people went through these experiences. I was like a father figure. I would have hoped someone had come to me to talk about it."
Old 02-12-21, 06:31 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

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Old 02-12-21, 07:07 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I've also always gotten the impression that TV and movie sets are kind of boys clubs. I can totally see a comedy show runner asking if an actress is keeping the baby in such a way that he thinks he's being "edgy" and then getting angry because the pregnancy is an affront to the creative vision he had for that character.
This anecdote reminds me of Hitchcock and Vertigo. It’s pretty common knowledge at this point that he wanted Vera Miles for the lead and when she became pregnant he took it as a personal insult, like it was his business, and then he deliberately never gave her another lead roll. Facts like that used to be spoken of as just facts. They’d be put in the “trivia” section of IMDb alongside the filming location and the explanation of how the trick “vertigo” shot was achieved. Like it was just matter of fact. “Oh here’s another one, Hitch used to vindictively ruin people’s careers. Another eccentricity is that he would often feature characters who wore eyeglasses.”

We like to act that the Don Draper shit ended a long time ago, and it did, but our tolerance of such behavior carried forward for a long time.

Last edited by Mabuse; 02-13-21 at 11:15 AM.

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