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Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

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Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Old 02-10-21, 04:19 PM
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re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

And a lot of his female cast members were young and early in their career. No reason for Michelle Trachtenberg and Amber Benson to jump in unless they had stories too.

Old 02-10-21, 04:22 PM
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re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Look, I'm biased in this. I've been a fan of his for decades. I even met the man. I just want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I haven't heard any Harvey Weinstein-level stuff. Just him being a douche-nozzle on set--like a LOT of filmmakers in Hollywood. I hope he hasn't sexually harassed or sexually assaulted someone. It would break my heart if he did.
Old 02-10-21, 04:25 PM
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re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by PatD
Look, I'm biased in this. I've been a fan of his for decades. I even met the man. I just want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I haven't heard any Harvey Weinstein-level stuff. Just him being a douche-nozzle on set--like a LOT of filmmakers in Hollywood. I hope he hasn't sexually harassed or sexually assaulted someone. It would break my heart if he did.
I guess that makes it "ok" and not worth calling out?
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Old 02-10-21, 04:27 PM
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re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
I guess that makes it "ok" and not worth calling out?
Calling out or destroying their lives? I can't tell anymore.
Old 02-10-21, 04:27 PM
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re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
I guess that makes it "ok" and not worth calling out?
I don't want to speak for PatD but I get the sentiment. I love Whedon's work too. But there have been rumors for a LONG time and I don't see everyone jumping in to pile on who worked with him before if they didn't have their own stories to tell.
Old 02-10-21, 04:31 PM
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re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
I guess that makes it "ok" and not worth calling out?
Yeah exactly, running a toxic work environment, berating your cast and crew including an actress who was pregnant. And if that Michelle Trachtenberg tweet didn't hint at something more nefarious. And I understand her position too. She was 17-18 at the time. Who would believe her vs an established TV showrunner with a hit show? She was very early in her career at the time.
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Old 02-10-21, 04:33 PM
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re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by PatD
Also for the record: John Landis actually KILLED some of his actors and he's still allowed to work in Hollywood with his reputation relatively intact.
I always figured Landis was able to continue working because he stood trial for manslaughter with some of the crew members involved in the accident and they were all acquitted after a nine-month trial. Warner Bros. settled with the families of the victims, Vic Morrow, and the two children, seven-year-old Myca Dinh Le and six-year-old Renee Shin-Yi Chen.

From Wikipedia:
Landis spoke about the accident in a 1996 interview: "There was absolutely no good aspect about this whole story. The tragedy, which I think about every day, had an enormous impact on my career, from which it may possibly never recover."[24][28][29]

Filmmaker Steven Spielberg co-produced the film with Landis, but he broke off their friendship following the accident.[10][30] Spielberg said that the crash "made me grow up a little more" and left everyone who worked on the movie "sick to the center of our souls". He added: "No movie is worth dying for. I think people are standing up much more now than ever before to producers and directors who ask too much. If something isn't safe, it's the right and responsibility of every actor or crew member to yell, 'Cut!'"[31]
Despite what Landis said there, he did direct eleven more movies (and parts of another), some of which were quite successful (THREE AMIGOS, COMING TO AMERICA) and produced many TV episodes since then, as well as appearing in various interview segments of documentaries about other people and featured prominently on "Trailers from Hell."
Old 02-10-21, 04:35 PM
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re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Old 02-10-21, 04:45 PM
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re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by PatD
Calling out or destroying their lives? I can't tell anymore.

Well, if you do something horrible at your job that causes your coworkers or subordinates to call you out, and you get fired and have a hard time finding new work due to what YOU DID at your previous job... I mean isn't that how life works?

If you show that you've worked on yourself and are no longer that person then maybe we can talk giving you a second chance. But most of these folks act like they had a right to do what they did. And based on your "Like a lot of..." comment...many support and enable that kind of toxic behavior and workplace environment. Shit, the fanboys are saying Ray Fisher should shut up and smile in the face of abuse as the price for fame...


Like many issues in America, people will say, "well that's how it's always been", and when someone says, "But it doesn't have to stay that way and should evolve"...people lose their shit and can't abide by the need for change.

Last edited by Giantrobo; 02-10-21 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 02-10-21, 04:54 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

I feel like some next-level shit is about to go down, unless they make the entire Buffy/Angel cast disappear. I'm curious where the Firefly casts stands.

Really surprised Eliza Dushku hasn't said anything yet.
Old 02-10-21, 05:00 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Sorry to hear this about Joss. I've long liked his work.

But quality work doesn't mean the people crafting it can't be assholes to other people.

He crafted a whole series for ED, so I would think she was probably one his ''favorites"- unless she had some dirt on him (or someone else in the production company).
Old 02-10-21, 05:05 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by candyrocket786
Really surprised Eliza Dushku hasn't said anything yet.
She might have been one of the "favorites". He did create a whole show for her. She's been very vocal about the various forms of abuse she's suffered in the industry - not sure why she'd hold back here.
Old 02-10-21, 05:13 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
Well, if you do something horrible at your job that causes your coworkers or subordinates to call you out, and you get fired and have a hard time finding new work due to what YOU DID at your previous job... I mean isn't that how life works?

If you show that you've worked on yourself and are no longer that person then maybe we can talk giving you a second chance. But most of these folks act like they had a right to do what they did. And based on your "Like a lot of..." comment...many support and enable that kind of toxic behavior and workplace environment. Shit, the fanboys are saying Ray Fisher should shut up and smile in the face of abuse as the price for fame...


Like many issues in America, people will say, "well that's how it's always been", and when someone says, "But it doesn't have to stay that way and should evolve"...people lose their shit and can't abide by the need for change.
I guess I wouldn't take as much issue with some of call-out culture if there was some consistency and the allowance for second chances for those who *genuinely* change their ways and make amends.

As far as consistency goes: John Lennon beat up his female partners and David Bowie (allegedly) fucked underage girls and they're both revered to this day. If they posthumously get a pass and other people get called-out for the same behavior...it don't doesn't smack of morality, just popular taste.

As far as second chances goes: the majority who are "called-out" are toast forever. If people are not given a fair shot to change their ways and make amends and be allowed back into civilization, they will most likely "double down on darkness" since they'll have nothing left to lose. (Louis CK is the perfect example of that)

I don't know. I'm just shook up from this. Whedon's work wasn't just a fun diversion; it was meaningful art that helped me through some life-and-death situations in my life. Meeting him was one of my most treasured memories. If anyone is accusing me of not wanting it to be true: you're right. As I stated: it would severely break my heart if it is.
Old 02-10-21, 05:16 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by Draven
She might have been one of the "favorites". He did create a whole show for her. She's been very vocal about the various forms of abuse she's suffered in the industry - not sure why she'd hold back here.
I do wonder if we are going to get any Avengers stories. I have my guesses on possibly one from Ultron, but I'll wait and see.
Old 02-10-21, 05:45 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by PatD
I guess I wouldn't take as much issue with some of call-out culture if there was some consistency and the allowance for second chances for those who *genuinely* change their ways and make amends.

As far as consistency goes: John Lennon beat up his female partners and David Bowie (allegedly) fucked underage girls and they're both revered to this day. If they posthumously get a pass and other people get called-out for the same behavior...it don't doesn't smack of morality, just popular taste.

As far as second chances goes: the majority who are "called-out" are toast forever. If people are not given a fair shot to change their ways and make amends and be allowed back into civilization, they will most likely "double down on darkness" since they'll have nothing left to lose. (Louis CK is the perfect example of that)

I don't know. I'm just shook up from this. Whedon's work wasn't just a fun diversion; it was meaningful art that helped me through some life-and-death situations in my life. Meeting him was one of my most treasured memories. If anyone is accusing me of not wanting it to be true: you're right. As I stated: it would severely break my heart if it is.
In the cases of Lennon and Bowie, their families are the ones who benefit if I buy their work. Lennon died before I was 2, so any money Iíve spent on Beatles/solo stuff has gone to Yoko and Sean, not John.

Similarly, James Brown was often pretty shitty, but he gets no benefit from me enjoying his work.
Old 02-10-21, 06:22 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Old 02-10-21, 08:26 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Dushku has delt with some real sleazy industry folk, I'm not sure she'd be the first to throw down against a regular tier asshole like Whedon. Dude just sounds like a few of my bosses, all the way down to the fat comments.

That said, I've never liked Whedon's work and have always been baffled by the praise he's gotten.

Last edited by RichC2; 02-10-21 at 08:56 PM.
Old 02-10-21, 08:53 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by PatD
What did he specifically do? When other celebrities who've been accused of sexual misconduct were accused, their accusers generally went into specifics. Was there actual sue-able sexual harassment? Did he do anything that could have led to a civil or criminal case? I genuinely want to know. All I've heard is he's an asshole who created a toxic work environment.
About three years ago Joss' ex-wife, Kai Cole, wrote this lengthy blog post:

https://www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-...kai-cole-says/

She doesn't come right out and say it, but it sounds like he was casting-couching actresses.
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Old 02-10-21, 08:58 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by candyrocket786
I'm wondering if anyone else from the Buffyverse will come forward.

For some reason, I feel like Michelle Trachtenberg has a story to tell.
Originally Posted by dex14
Michelle Trachtenberg didn't turn eighteen until well after shooting wrapped, so that could be a whole other can of worms...
Old 02-10-21, 10:33 PM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Originally Posted by RichC2
That said, I've never liked Whedon's work and have always been baffled by the praise he's gotten.
Agreed. Though I did like Angel, but he didn't have as big a hand in that, and it was a good show in spite of him, not because of him.
Old 02-11-21, 12:24 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Personal transgressions aside, Whedon (was) a remarkably creative force in the late 90's/early aughts.

We take serial storytelling for granted now, but he was pretty much the first to bring that format to live-action superhero TV (which is what I've always seen Buffy as- more so than a horror show).
He also provided a good showcase for strong female characters years before that became fashionable or desirable.
He also played with the form- writing, directing and even having a hand in crafting most of the score for a bonkers musical episode that could have gone horribly wrong, but instead was accepted as a huge success.

Power corrupts. And it looks like Whedon, who had enormous power having the big show in a tiny pond on an alt-network, probably took advantage of it in bad ways.

As a writer/creator of some of my favorite TV, I had a lot of admiration and respect for him and what he was able to do with genre material. Buffy was a "light" fantasy show with some remarkable gravitas on occasion.
I'm sorry to hear all this, but I'm old enough to know that a lot of artists have never been who I wished they were.
In Hollywood, I wouldn't be surprised if he is more the rule than the exception. Legions of desperate wannabes will put up with all kinds of degradations and abuse in the hopes of ascending to the point where they can be the ones dishing it out with impunity rather than taking it. And so many of the ones who have already made it are more than willing to take advantage of that.
Old 02-11-21, 12:28 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

^^

This. ALL this.
Old 02-11-21, 02:44 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Around the time Carpenter was let go, I was active on some Buffy/Angel message boards. A lot of the fan community bent over backwards making excuses for her dismissal, because a "feminist" like Whedon would never stand for a woman being fired because of a pregnancy. They balked at the mere suggestion when I brought it up, claiming she had chosen to leave to take care of the baby and was free to return at any time (despite no official statement or evidence of this). I was annoyed because Cordy was my favorite character and I knew it was not a mutual decision based on Whedon's lame "the character had run its course" excuse.

Also, Angel was on the bubble for renewal at the time. They later added James Marsters to the cast, hoping he would help boost ratings. Since they were most likely working with a reduced budget (which explains why so much of season five took place in the Wolfram & Hart set), they probably needed to free up extra money somewhere. I assume that also factored into the decision to dump Carpenter after season four. She later said she agreed to come back for Angel's 100th episode on the condition (MAJOR ANGEL SPOILER)
Spoiler:
they didn't kill off Cordelia. Of course, they ended up doing it anyway after she had signed on.

Last edited by joe_b; 03-07-21 at 09:47 PM.
Old 02-11-21, 03:33 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Damn.

When the Ray Fisher stuff came out it really read like a disgruntled employee - a malcontent.

Aside from the Charisma Carpenter being written off Buffy for, "Not telling Joss that she was pregnant," I had heard nothing bad said about Whedon. I figured if no one from Buffy ever said anything really bad, after working with him day after day for years, how bad could he really be?

Well, now we have a better idea. And what we're getting is a picture of someone who was a creative genius on one hand, but a mentally abusive prick on the other. That's a shame, because I always liked Whedon's work. Buffy, Angel, Firefly, The Avengers - I love what he's done, creatively.

But now? I'm really disappointed, and a little angry, because his whole persona looks like it was carefully crafted and fabricated - just like one of his scripts. It hid an ugly truth.

Joss comes across like a VERY insecure person from what I'm reading tonight. That's NO excuse whatsoever for his behavior, but that could explain some of his behavior. Explain, not excuse. There IS no excuse if what we're reading is even half true, and at this point I have no reason to believe it isn't 100% true.

Yeah, he's done. Career over. No amount of repentance and groveling will get it back. And that's a shame, because he has a lot of talent, but no amount of talent makes up for mentally abusive behavior.

And the comments from Michelle Trachtenberg? Shit. That's more than a little disturbing. If she's implying what she seems to be implying then he really should be publicly vilified since I do not believe he could be prosecuted almost 20 years later.

This is an ugly story for sure.

And someone had to enable him to behave like that. Studio execs. Other producers. Who knew, and when did they know it?
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Old 02-11-21, 04:42 AM
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Re: Sexual Harassment/Assault & Abuse in Hollywood -- Discussion

Casting couching isn't abuse like an actual assault, but it is definitely a massive abuse of power and most of the vague accusations against Whedon just show him as being a prick, but I wouldn't think that Warner would fire him from The Nevers, just for being a prick. I'm pretty sure there will be more. Until now there doesn't seem to be anything criminal, because even Ray Fisher wouldn't go in to detail and no criminal behavior is protected by a NDA.

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