"Superman Returns"...the reviews thread.
06-28-06 | 01:12 PM
#276
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Do you think Tom Welling thinks that Brandon Routh is stealing his thunder?
06-28-06 | 01:13 PM
#277
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Originally Posted by jeffkjoe
OK, here's my question.
After the disaster that was Superman IV: The Quest for Peace , why do you think
there are still sold-out crowds and heavy cheering for this movie?
Do you think enough time has passed?
Do you think the audience has forgiven?
Do you think it's because they have faith in Bryan Singer?
What's your theory?
After the disaster that was Superman IV: The Quest for Peace , why do you think
there are still sold-out crowds and heavy cheering for this movie?
Do you think enough time has passed?
Do you think the audience has forgiven?
Do you think it's because they have faith in Bryan Singer?
What's your theory?
Add to that the passing of Christopher Reeve and that many people have forgotten III & IV, I think people are ready for a new kind of Superman and Bryan Singer was as good as it could've gotten for the franchise IMO.
06-28-06 | 01:17 PM
#278
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Originally Posted by jeffkjoe
OK, here's a new question:
Do you think Tom Welling thinks that Brandon Routh is stealing his thunder?
Do you think Tom Welling thinks that Brandon Routh is stealing his thunder?
Also, Tom Welling is supposed be a teen Superman. You don't get that kind of actor for a movie that is supposed to be a sequel to "Superman II" (at least Routh is somewhat reminiscent of Reeve).
06-28-06 | 01:24 PM
#281
Banned by request
Originally Posted by LivingINClip
She couldn't of known it was Kal-El's kid. She never remembered Clark being Superman. If that is the case, she wouldn't remember sleeping with Superman, as she slept with him when he was de-powered in the FoS. Then at the end of the film, Superman gave her a kiss and she forgot all about it. Which apparently, right afterwards he left earth and she moved right on to Richard White, thus she believed it to be Richard White's kid.
This has a few problems.
1: She was raped. This is a problem really with the second, but the point is driven home now that we know she got knocked up.
2: She was in love with Superman, but apparently AS SOON as he left she started sleeping with Richard White.
Singer's vague history did nothing but add plot holes.
This has a few problems.
1: She was raped. This is a problem really with the second, but the point is driven home now that we know she got knocked up.
2: She was in love with Superman, but apparently AS SOON as he left she started sleeping with Richard White.
Singer's vague history did nothing but add plot holes.
1. She wasn't raped. She consented to sleep with Superman in II. What can be seen as the violation would be removing her knowledge that Clark was Superman.
2. If he really did leave right away, then she would be distraught. Richard White would be the sympathetic shoulder for her to cry on. Can we say rebound guy?
Originally Posted by Doughboy
I wasn't saying Singer should've completely abandoned what Donner set up in his first 2(or 1 1/2 to be exact) films. I like that he made Superman Returns as the 3rd movie in the series, although they played around quite a bit with what did and didn't happen in I & II. My problem is that he ended up essentially remaking Superman: The Movie.
We get Superman making his presence known all over the world through a montage of stopping crime and helping people, including preventing a plane crash and foiling a bank robbery. The exact same thing happened in the first movie.
Lex Luthor is the heavy and has his sights set on destroying a significant chunk of the U.S. in order to gain control of a sizable amount of land. He's accompanied by a female cohort who's sympathetic to Superman's plight. Sound familiar? It should, since it's taken directly from Donner's film.
Superman manages to overcome nearly being drowned by a Kryptonite attack and proceeds to save a city from being destroyed by Luthor's plan. Again, it happened in the first movie as well.
And then there are the other "homages" to the Donner film(s) like rehashed dialogue("Do you know what my father said to me?" "Get out.", "Statistically speaking, it's still the safest way to travel.", "Sorry Miss Lane, I didn't mean to startle you.") or scenes such as Superman flying with Lois over Metropolis(although at least Singer didn't reuse the infamous "Can You Read My Mind?").
Where Chris Nolan went right where Singer went wrong was creating a fresh take on Batman that we'd never seen before. Sure, he had extra incentive to do that since it had been only 8 years since the last bigscreen entry vs. 19 years for Superman. And in the case of Batman, there had never been a great Batflick whereas Superman has had arguably two.
But at the same time, he didn't recycle anything from the Burton or Schumacher films. And I don't just mean losing Elfman's music or redesigning Gotham and the Batmobile. He also used entirely new villains like Ra's Al Ghul and the Scarecrow. He came up with a new plot(or at least a significant variation) that hadn't been used in the previous 4 films. The easiest thing would've been to stick with more popular Batman heavies like The Joker, but Nolan had the creative energy and guts to take us somewhere we'd never been before.
Singer played it safe for the most part by going over the same beats Donner already covered 28 years ago. And you know what? Donner did it better. In the future, if I have a choice between watching Superman: The Movie on DVD or Superman Returns, I'm going with the original.
We get Superman making his presence known all over the world through a montage of stopping crime and helping people, including preventing a plane crash and foiling a bank robbery. The exact same thing happened in the first movie.
Lex Luthor is the heavy and has his sights set on destroying a significant chunk of the U.S. in order to gain control of a sizable amount of land. He's accompanied by a female cohort who's sympathetic to Superman's plight. Sound familiar? It should, since it's taken directly from Donner's film.
Superman manages to overcome nearly being drowned by a Kryptonite attack and proceeds to save a city from being destroyed by Luthor's plan. Again, it happened in the first movie as well.
And then there are the other "homages" to the Donner film(s) like rehashed dialogue("Do you know what my father said to me?" "Get out.", "Statistically speaking, it's still the safest way to travel.", "Sorry Miss Lane, I didn't mean to startle you.") or scenes such as Superman flying with Lois over Metropolis(although at least Singer didn't reuse the infamous "Can You Read My Mind?").
Where Chris Nolan went right where Singer went wrong was creating a fresh take on Batman that we'd never seen before. Sure, he had extra incentive to do that since it had been only 8 years since the last bigscreen entry vs. 19 years for Superman. And in the case of Batman, there had never been a great Batflick whereas Superman has had arguably two.
But at the same time, he didn't recycle anything from the Burton or Schumacher films. And I don't just mean losing Elfman's music or redesigning Gotham and the Batmobile. He also used entirely new villains like Ra's Al Ghul and the Scarecrow. He came up with a new plot(or at least a significant variation) that hadn't been used in the previous 4 films. The easiest thing would've been to stick with more popular Batman heavies like The Joker, but Nolan had the creative energy and guts to take us somewhere we'd never been before.
Singer played it safe for the most part by going over the same beats Donner already covered 28 years ago. And you know what? Donner did it better. In the future, if I have a choice between watching Superman: The Movie on DVD or Superman Returns, I'm going with the original.
Doing the first by itself wouldn't be a problem. Doing the second while also doing the first means that you do things like use the same style opening credits, take some familiar lines, and put them in new context, etc. Could Lex's scheme have been different? Absolutely. Did they play what they had well? Absolutely. You might say Lex is still mad about getting that particular plot foiled in 1, and he never got over it.
If the next Superman film rips off II, then I think your criticism will be more valid. But this one being an homage to the old ones allows the next one to move in a different direction and have less touchstones to the originals, since we now accept that this is meant to be the same series of films.
I think, in the end, what's most important in this film is how well it re-establishes Superman as a character we'd like to see on the big screen. To use the old catchphrase, did it make us believe a man can fly (again)? And I say, yes, it did. It offers an exhilirating ride and while it's not perfect, and not as deep as Batman Begins (but then again Batman is a more psychologically complex character and mythos), it's still a momentous occasion for Superman fans. Superman did return with this movie, no doubt about it.
06-28-06 | 01:24 PM
#282
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From: New Jersey
I rate it 6.5 out of 10 or B-
Disappointing would be the first word I would use to describe Superman Returns. Tone was good but the storyline sucked. I thought Brandon Routh was okay and Kate Boswith very good. Michael Madsen was good in a thankless role. Kevin Spacey was okay.
1. Lack of action. Besides the beginning with the shuttle(in the trailer) no other good action scenes.
2. Lois, kid and White. To me the question has always been Does Lois Lane love or infatuated with superman because of his powers or who he is aka Clark Kent. I know Clark Kent is supeman in disguise and he really is Superman. But clark kent is who superman is on a daily basis. Superman like lois says everyone is in love with him. If i was superman i would want her to love me without the powers. the kid, and white are a distraction from the real question. If i was superman and she treated me average joe clark kent like she does in this movie i would say get lost lois your nothing more than a gold digger.
3. following the path of superman i and ii was not a good idea.
Too many scenes ripped off from superman i and ii. luthors girlfriend turning on him, superman saving a plane, ext.
Not a bad movie but disppointing.
Disappointing would be the first word I would use to describe Superman Returns. Tone was good but the storyline sucked. I thought Brandon Routh was okay and Kate Boswith very good. Michael Madsen was good in a thankless role. Kevin Spacey was okay.
1. Lack of action. Besides the beginning with the shuttle(in the trailer) no other good action scenes.
2. Lois, kid and White. To me the question has always been Does Lois Lane love or infatuated with superman because of his powers or who he is aka Clark Kent. I know Clark Kent is supeman in disguise and he really is Superman. But clark kent is who superman is on a daily basis. Superman like lois says everyone is in love with him. If i was superman i would want her to love me without the powers. the kid, and white are a distraction from the real question. If i was superman and she treated me average joe clark kent like she does in this movie i would say get lost lois your nothing more than a gold digger.
3. following the path of superman i and ii was not a good idea.
Too many scenes ripped off from superman i and ii. luthors girlfriend turning on him, superman saving a plane, ext.
Not a bad movie but disppointing.
Last edited by sabre; 06-28-06 at 03:27 PM.
06-28-06 | 01:29 PM
#283
Banned by request
I did dislike how Kent got ignored in this film. In the others, he's not given the cold shoulder.
Did anyone else notice the 2001 homage when
There were some other homages to other non-Superman films that I noticed at the time but are slipping my mind at the moment.
Did anyone else notice the 2001 homage when
Spoiler:
06-28-06 | 01:36 PM
#285
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From: Dallas, TX
Originally Posted by jeffkjoe
Can you imagine if Tim Burton or McG got their hands on this what a departure it would have been from the Superman movie lore that we know and love?
06-28-06 | 01:38 PM
#287
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From: AUSTIN - Land of Mexican Coke
Originally Posted by jeffkjoe
Can you imagine if Tim Burton or McG got their hands on this what a departure it would have been from the Superman movie lore that we know and love?
And lest we forget . . .
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13350
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgYhLIThTvk
06-28-06 | 01:39 PM
#288
Banned by request
Originally Posted by MBoyd
Speaking of 2001 . . .
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Did anyone else catch Sir Richard Branson as one of the pilots on the shuttle?
06-28-06 | 01:41 PM
#289
DVD Talk Limited Edition
A question about Lex's model train station. After it gets wrecked, it looked like that sign said 'Smallville' on it. Anyone else catch this? If not Smallville, what did it say?
06-28-06 | 01:41 PM
#290
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by resinrats
A question about Lex's model train station. After it gets wrecked, it looked like that sign said 'Smallville' on it. Anyone else catch this? If not Smallville, what did it say?
06-28-06 | 01:42 PM
#291
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From: Dallas, TX
Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Did anyone else catch Sir Richard Branson as one of the pilots on the shuttle?
06-28-06 | 01:47 PM
#292
Banned by request
Richard Branson was in the closing credits, so yes, it was him. Apparently Peta Wilson is hiding somewhere in the film, too (unless I hallucinated during the credits).
And yes, the sign in the train model said Smallville. A little joke. Model train set town = small. Smallville.
And yes, the sign in the train model said Smallville. A little joke. Model train set town = small. Smallville.
06-28-06 | 01:50 PM
#293
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From: Dallas, TX
Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Apparently Peta Wilson is hiding somewhere in the film, too (unless I hallucinated during the credits).
I never watched La Femme Nikita. Didn't she also have a cameo in Spider-Man?
06-28-06 | 02:19 PM
#295
DVD Talk Legend
Ok I liked the movie...At times it was brilliant. Waste of Clark Kent, why even bother with him in it? And this is supposed to be a sequel after part 2, so basically Louis just ignores Clark? That was the biggest problem of the movie, that and how many times is Supes going to supposedly die? I thought Routh was great as Superman, liked Bosworth and the kid, and Spacey was terrible, and he was who I thought was going to do the best, but he totally ruined Luthor. Those of you that criticize other comic movies for not being faithful to the source, give this movie a pass, why?. I actually like the length, but I had to pee so bad during the last 20 mins but couldnt leave. Anyways, I think Singer did a pretty good job, with the exceptions above. I would give it a B, but I think it definitely re-invents the movie for some good sequels hopefully (just for the love of God like someone mentioned earlier, keep Luthor out of them).
Last edited by FantasticVSDoom; 06-28-06 at 02:22 PM.
06-28-06 | 02:19 PM
#296
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From: AUSTIN - Land of Mexican Coke
The whole model train/town was a homage to the effects in the first 2 films.
I wonder if anyone has compiled an accurate list of references on IMDB yet.
I wonder if anyone has compiled an accurate list of references on IMDB yet.
06-28-06 | 02:24 PM
#297
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From: WAS looking for My Own Private Stuckeyville, but stuck in Liberty City (while missing Vice City)
I thought this was better than (becoming severly overrated) Batman Begins.
I also agree with what Suprmallet said about the overuse of Williams' theme.
As many have said, Bosworth was merely adequate, and I thought her forehead was distracting at times. Lord knows how it'll look in IMAX.
The kid wasn't as annoying as I thought he'd be (based on the trailer - "You're bald"
)
Routh didn't really have much to do (other than to look "iconic") and I agree with Ebert regarding his line count. I'm also shocked, shocked I say, to see that people are declaring Routh is Superman.
I also agree with what Suprmallet said about the overuse of Williams' theme.
As many have said, Bosworth was merely adequate, and I thought her forehead was distracting at times. Lord knows how it'll look in IMAX.
The kid wasn't as annoying as I thought he'd be (based on the trailer - "You're bald"
)Routh didn't really have much to do (other than to look "iconic") and I agree with Ebert regarding his line count. I'm also shocked, shocked I say, to see that people are declaring Routh is Superman.
06-28-06 | 02:27 PM
#298
Banned by request
Routh was very good as Superman, but deficient as Clark Kent. Neither performance embodied the role like Reeve did, so yeah, I also don't know why people are calling Routh THE Superman.
06-28-06 | 02:30 PM
#299
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Tom Welling is a bitch compared to Routh...no comparison.
Routh was perfect IMO.
Routh was perfect IMO.
Routh was very good as Superman, but deficient as Clark Kent. Neither performance embodied the role like Reeve did, so yeah, I also don't know why people are calling Routh THE Superman.
Last edited by Terrell; 06-28-06 at 02:32 PM.
06-28-06 | 02:31 PM
#300
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From: WAS looking for My Own Private Stuckeyville, but stuck in Liberty City (while missing Vice City)
Wholeheartedly agree (with your first comment).
Though, I honestly don't know if Welling would be able to pull off "geeky" Clark..
Though, I honestly don't know if Welling would be able to pull off "geeky" Clark..