I would suggest that a worse omen is that it's reviewer screening is so close to opening night. But that would only add fuel to your fire. I'm just saying.. If you were going to bitch about anything... that would be the thing to bitch about.

Point taken

I'm sorry but those examples are exceedingly tame compared to any of the Alien or Predator movies. Star Wars? Come on, get real. Those movies don't even come close to the violence and intensity of these flicks. LoTR is about as violent as you can get for pg-13, but even THAT doesn't reach the level of intensity (in terms of presented violence, not necessarily emotional impact so let's not do that comparison) of your average R rated violent movie. Not even close. There's an enormous difference between the two. Trying to say the pg-13 still allows them to do all those things we love about these characters is flat out insane. You MIGHT be able to get away with some of the things shot in ways where you can't really see them. But come on! Why would you want that? I know you're trying to defend this, but a pg-13 on this is just pathetic. That'd be like making a pg-13 Romero Dead movie. Could you see that happening also? Sure, it COULD be done. But it's stupid. You know the gore at pg-13 is pretty light.

No no no. Pg-13 on this movie is a death knell for it. It might make money, but it won't be any good. I was holding out hope but it just died. Oh well. That's the second franchise Anderson mucked up that I had high hopes for. And I thought Resident Evil was way too light on the gore. Geesh!

Simple resolution: get rid of the MPAA.

Then all movies will be uncut & unrated.

Sorry, I'm not here to be your little dancing monkey. Examples were asked for, examples were listed. If they do not please you then I couldn't give a rats ass. They are there, so they don't fit your exact needs or win you over. Tough cookie. I'm not going to dance to entertain you when I tried. People may feel better screaming at a broken car. Screaming at the broken car wont do jack shit to make it start running again.

Just for crying out loud, there is SOOOOO much more you can bitch about Alien Vs Predator for. SOOOO MUCH, and the best you guys are doing is a stupid ratings? I'll ask you this, If PG-13 is the death Knell for films then why the hell are so many PG-13 films successful?

Like I said, there is a lot of "Should have been, Could have been, would have been" going on here when you whiners haven't even seen the god damn movie yet. WTF? seriously man. If the film sucks then you have a reason to bitch to high heavens on how it was the destruction of two franchise, but till then for crying out loud take this internet bitching to AICN cause that is what it's sounding like in here.

You know, I though Resident Evil was a piece of crap. Not because of a lack of gore, but because of a lack of zombies and a lack of relation to the video game. When it comes to Alien Vs Predator I have only two things that have to be there and I'm positive I will enjoy it.

A.) does it have an/or more then one alien? YES
B.) Does it have an/or more then one Predator? YES

both are checked so to me, I'm going to watch it. If it sucks I'll bitch about it afterwards. Till then it's meeting my requirements

But since we are on the subject of gore:

How much gore was in Alien? Not much really, it was more suspense then anything else. You got to see very little gore. Sure you saw a lot of milk like material when a robot went nuts. You also got to see a chest burster, which by all accounts could still very well make it into a PG-13 rating because of the Sci Fi violence which was exampled in Arm slice in Episode II.

Aliens. You had a bit more, but not all that much graphic gore. You had half dead people and another chest burster. You had offscreen deaths the majority of the time and another robot get sliced in half. Over all, besides the language it may very well be tame when it comes to gore

Alien3 , again another suspense film. Sure you had the fan accident but that wasn't really much to do with an alien more so with human accident. Over all tame on the gore if you ask me.

Alien Res. This was more strange gore. You had baby alien sucked through a hole. that was pretty messy. other then that a lot of off screen killing.


Now for the predator side:

Predator 1. Besides the skinning of the people, it wasn't all that gore filmed. You had the laser slice through a governors chest, but even that wasn't as gory as a lot of stuff now a days. A skull here and there which can still happen.

Predator 2. This one got it's rating because of the sex scene, nudity and drug use if you ask me. alot of the gore was just typical. I really didn't see all that much gore compared to more gun play and drug use and sexual content.

Over all both franchises don't resort to pointless gore in order to get it's entertainment across. I'll say this again.. IT'S ALIEN VS PREDATOR.. ALIEN VS PREDATOR. ALIEN VS PREDATOR. meaning humans aren't the Predators main target on this hunt. They are the wild boars of the field while the hunter is trying to catch lions. Get the picture? They may get in the way, but the predators main focus is the alien. Meaning you will see a lot of popping aliens (Something that those R ratings on alien wasn't put in for) and you will see a lot of green bleeding predators (another thing that wasn't the reason an R rating was given to predator franchise). Humans may be killed, but it's not going to be something extreme or over gory.

It's not stupid to do, and it can be done without the need for extreme gore, which both franchise haven't had to resort to in any part of the past. Does it suck that two R rated franchises are going to be combined to make a PG-13 film? sure, it doesn't sound all that great, but you know what... IT HAPPENED AND YOU DON'T KNOW IF IT WORKED TILL AFTER YOU'VE SEEN IT.

so perhaps that the clue to see it before it becomes the dead horse you become so used to beating.

Just because a movie makes money (as PG-13 films tend to gross more), doesn't mean that it's a good movie by any means. The studios have found a formula that makes them more money: slashing content to widen their available audience (increase ticket sales).

I'm sorry, but that's like saying "Just because something sells, doesn't mean people like it." No, that's exactly why it's selling.. PEOPLE FOR SOME REASON OR ANOTHER LIKE IT JUST ENOUGH TO BUY IT!

I'm as artsey as the next guy and I visit the local indie theater as much as possible, but even I know that in this industry, you can't expect to hit that niche market only and still make a good living. Those formulas are there for a reason and they have been there for some time for a reason.. Because they work. If they didn't, then they would have been changed to the next formula that does work.

You ever think about this possible scenerio. Fox makes this franchise to fit a pg-13 audiance by adding just enough content and gore that would reach the peak of Pg-13. this will then gather a new crowd that will enjoy what they saw. A taste for the two franchises and then from there they will look into both series and become a new fan?

Does this alienate the older fan? To some degree you get a little of what made the franchise so good to you. But on the other hand you have two successful franchises combined together in an event that we have been waiting to see for some time.

Now don't get me wrong, I want a good film as much as the next guy, but I'm realistic enough to realize that this industry, much like any business is about one thing above all else. Making a profit. Doing a circle jerk for the fans doesn't always pay the bills, especially if you make it so that only the fans of the two franchises will enjoy the film. You have to allow your film to be able to be enjoyable by both those fans AND new comers.

In this day and age with the internet being the shield that many hide behind to post their Movie Poop shoot-ish reviews and comments it's no surprise you get a lot of responses like this. The age of Internet Tough guys is all around us.

Just remember, at the end of the day, the film needs to make $$ to be successful. The critics, the public, everyone could say that it sucks, but if it makes money then it is a success in the minds of the studio.

Besides, this a freak'n popcorn flick. Enjoy it for what it is for crying out loud. Stop thinking what Could have been, should have been, would have been and start enjoying what is. Till you've seen WHAT IS, then you really shouldn't be bad mouthing it so much and especially not bad mouthing based on some rating you still do not know why it was given it.

Ok, Jack, as you seem to be defending it now more on business than artistic terms, let's look at the grosses for the previous films:

In Millions:
ALIEN - $80 (Adjusted, roughly $170)
ALIENS - $85 ($145)
ALIEN 3 - $55 ($70)
ALIEN: RESURRECTION - $48 ($50 - Not a big difference here, I know)

PREDATOR - $60 ($100)
PREDATOR 2 - $30 ($40, again, not a big difference)

So let's see, two series where the well-liked entries sold enough tickets to pass century mark today, and even the panned ones have a tidy profit. All, apparently, despite the R. So I strongly doubt the PG-13 will even make much of a difference.

I wouldn't call you a shill, Jack. That's an overstatement. But you sure do sound like a guy who works for the studios.

Oh, and I wouldn't really consider either the Alien or Predator series to be party of the "artey niche market."

Alright, Jack. Quit patronizing us. I'm not some "internet tough guy". I'd say any of my previous statements to Paul Anderson's face.

No, there wasn't inordinate amounts of gore in the Alien & Predator flicks. What was there was startling at times.

Frankly, and no offense, I don't care that you are in the business. I have been a movie fan for years, long before the internet. I know about the business to a certain degree.

It is the majority opinion in this thread that Paul Anderson watered down the nature of these beasts to achieve a crowd-friendly rating. Though the Nightmare on Elm Street & Friday the 13th movies were much more violent, one can still make the case that a PG-13 version of Freddy vs. Jason would suck sh__ out of a squirrel's ass.

I really don't care what anyone else thinks. I think 20th Century Fox & Paul Anderson MAY have dropped the ball. If I see it and I'm wrong, great. But being a genre fan, and knowing how the business works sometimes, I doubt I will be pleased.

My employment to fox has been known for a while. But I have no reason to shill for them on this film or any. My views have been my own regardless if I work for them. Hell, I complain a lot about them. Infact, I'm not sure you will find someone who bitches more about fox then me. Have it be Fox News (Fair and balance, AM I RITE?) or crap films like Garfield or the crappy marketing on Girl Next Door. I complain a lot about fox because I'm on the inside and look out. No no, the reason I jump on the defensive is I just grow tired of the over use of ratings as the sole reasons films are bashed. If you have noticed any of my post in the past you would see the moment that the items of MPAA and Censorship is brought up, that button is pressed and pressed hard.

Take a look at the past AVP threads. I really got pissed about Paul's direction and the situation that they placed the aliens and predators in. I was really opposed to that.

You will also notice how the predator and alien franchises mean to me, not for any business standpoint, I have nothing to gain, but as a special thing for me as I have loved these series since I was a wee lad.

Freud, I think my comments were more harsh because of the tone jaeufraser responded to me when he asked for examples and I gave some.

The exchanges between me and you have been pretty good and I do understand where you are coming from.

As for standpoint on what Fox has to gain. They have two franchises that have had cult status for a while. Success with video games and comic books on these two, but the film scene for both have been lowering and lowering in the past. They want to bring some blood back into it. By marketing it to a younger or larger group, they can sink in a lot more new comers to the two franchise and hope to shoot for more sales all around. Makes sense to me.

My only factor is I get to see aliens and predators in action again on the big screen.

Infact the only connection I have to this film on the fox studio is I get to rape the promotions department for all the goods I can. other then that, I have no connection to it, nor do I get a cent of what it makes. So shill? Nah, just a combination of annoyed that the Ratings game came into play when clearly there is a lot more you can bitch about this film for.

I, myself am just happy to see new blood in these two series. Hopefully it leads to more projects. Namely ones without Paul Anderson at the helm.

I'm not talking about censorship in this case, nor do I think anyone here really is. I'm talking about Fox having no cojones.

hey I wasnt' trying to be rude or put you down. I just lvoe these characters and am just pissed off about the rating. It just means this is NOT the film I expected. But those examples you gave don't really represent R rated violence on the levels of these films at all. Sorry if I insulted you, wasn't meant to be an attack on you, but come on...ratings do sometimes mean something.

Nonetheless, while I agree success for this film would be great if it lead to more films, I don't think pg-13 is a good idea whatsoever. I've never seen a movie pg-13 that was like an Alien or Predator...that level of gore and violence just has never been met. The Star Wars and Indiana Jones and LoTR aren't good examples because they aren't at that level of violence. Not even close at least not the films I saw.

But truth is...if this pg-13 watered down movie does well, what does that mean? it means we'll see more for sure. But do you really think it'll lead to the movies we want to see? or just a series of watered down half ass Alien/Predator movies worse than the first and rated at most pg-13? You're in Hollywood...you know how it goes.

And while its success could bolster more films, it doesn't change the fact I wanted this film to be good. And well...it's not going to. You seem to realize that, and while I'll prolly end up seeing it cause these creatures still look badass and I want them to do well, I know now not to expect more than pure mediocrity. Which is lame. Beyond lame

Again, sorry if I came off rude but for us fans who wanted this to be decent, the pg-13 does represent the fact that it for sure will not be the movie we wanted.

I think all of you should just bow down to Jack.

I'm not thrilled about the lack of balls from the studio and unless it gets really good reviews, I'll probably wait for this one on DVD...but come to think about it, I'd have probably waited for DVD on this one anyway.

Ratings sometimes do mean a lot. But when we are talking about Paul Anderson, he's one of those to go by the book and get hired again for what he does best.. Buckle under the studio's wishes on what they want him to do.

Now trigger will support this, But I'm far from a fan of Paul's work. OOOOoooh, how I hate the guy. But just because a PG-13 film succeeds, doesn't mean that we will see a zerg rush of more PG-13 films. infact, I'm pretty sure fox will pimp out an "unrated" version of the film when it's in the DVD scene. The sales of these Unrated films hasn't caused more unrated films to hit theaters. Nope, it's cause a lot of studios to try to market that Unrated tag when its in the secondary market. That's why you see Universal pimp out every other film with an Unrated tag on it.

Another reason I'm in the camp now that is "Watch it before you bitch about it" is because of how much crow I ate with Dawn of the Dead. Anyone on the boards during the year prior and the few months after would tell you that I ate massive crow on that. I bitched so much about it during production and then I caught a sneak preview and bam.. I loved the film. since then I try not to bitch about a film because I know if given a chance, it can entertain me.

So I'm no shill, I'm just someone who wants to enjoy the entertainment piece created. I love films. So much that I made it my career.

Studios suck more nowadays then they did a couple of decades ago. May the suck go away. May the movie gods shed their light upon us in these dark days, oh thee lord.

Did anyone even read my post earlier?

Okay....all the aliens killed humans in all 4 of the movies and got an R rating for each. All the predators killed humans in all 2 of the movies and got an R rating for each. aliens AND predators kill humans in this movie and it gets a...... PG-13 rating.

WHY?????????????????? WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE????????????????? I mean, are the aliens and predators more polite killing the humans this time? are they doing it in a politically correct way this time around?

Maybe the red blood was replaced with black tar in AVP. There could very well be some scenes in B&W

More like:

Alien wants to harvest humans while predator is killing aliens (and trapping humans for bait).

Did anyone even read my post earlier? Puppet vs Puppet = Fantasy Violence.

I also suggested other reasons for the ratings in the franchise. Language for one thing in both predators. As well as Human vs Human violence between street crimes and a mad rush on gorrillas (Stick around?) In predator 2 you had sexual content and drug use. Those factor into it.

Alien franchise.. Language for the most part, some graphic detail, sexuality in Alien ? eh, some minor things here and there.

Again, it's ALIEN VS PREDATOR. Humans are just the bait for one to get the other. Why kill your bait if the hunter knows it likes it moving? Predator wont be doing much of the human killing, Aliens wont be doing it either since that's the nature of aliens. Harvest. Bring back the live human to create MORE aliens. A dead human is worthless to them, so they kill only when needed.

God, I feel like such a nerd.

jesus christ, guys i haven't seen any of the Aliens or Predetor movies but you guys just keep on talking about all these awful gore scenes. Learn how to use spoiler tags before someone who hasn't seen these classics come to this forum, for christsakes.

You didnt think these movies had violence in them? I havent read any specific descriptions so far.

My god, these movies have been around for twenty+ years with six films between them. I don't think it's necessary to have spoilers about humans getting killed.

rated pg-13 for violence, language, horror images, slime and gore

so either they really pushed the pg-13 movie, or because these are creatures fighting, they were more leniant

I put some details on what happened in them, but you figured if someone lived under a rock long enough to miss out six movies and two completely different franchises that they would be smarter then to post in a thread several pages into it based on both franchises.. well you would wonder atleast.