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-   -   The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/hd-talk/556113-criterion-collection-4k-blu-ray-discussion-release-thread.html)

Sondheim 08-16-13 10:36 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
I agree that it's overused, but I also think the Zatoichi set looks like one of the most gorgeous things they've ever produced.

I do hate the City Lights cover, though. It doesn't even look like Chaplin.

rocket1312 08-16-13 10:39 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Maxflier (Post 11800634)
Please no digipacks for these dual-format releases.

My guess is that the 2 disc releases (the majority of titles) will be their usual 2-disc cases, and 3+ disc releases (e.g. Tokyo Story) will be digipacks.

Why So Blu? 08-16-13 11:09 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
Glad CC is catching up with those Chaplin flicks. I have them all on Blu-ray but they're restored imports from the UK. Had those for like 2 years now. I forget the name of the company that put those out but they're fully loaded discs.

jwstl 08-16-13 11:33 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by nitin77 (Post 11800617)
so no one is excited by Tokyo Story or City Lights hitting blu?

I am. 2 of the best titles they've released in a long time.

LPMA 08-16-13 12:13 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by rocket1312 (Post 11800705)
My guess is that the 2 disc releases (the majority of titles) will be their usual 2-disc cases, and 3+ disc releases (e.g. Tokyo Story) will be digipacks.

I think a lot of their titles ended up being 2-disc DVDs though, so we may end up with a lot more 3 discs than 2.

bluetoast 08-16-13 01:30 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by BambooLounge (Post 11800614)
Of all the "instant criterions," I'm most ok with Frances Ha (least ok with Tiny Furniture).

Frances Ha at least is directed by a formerly release Criterion director and the film for what it's worth plays like an American ode to the French New Wave. So, I think it is a fitting film for the Criterion Collection. That being said, I would always prefer a catalog release to a new release, but if they must release new films, I'm happy they picked one I enjoyed.

Yeah that reasoning is pretty sound (as well as the IFC deal), I really did enjoy the movie but I did a double take upon initially looking at the releases. And as for the rest, City Lights and Tokyo Story are huge, and this Zatoichi box set is a very nice surprise.

LorenzoL 08-16-13 02:56 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
I'm in for City Lights, Tokyo Story and the Zatoichi boxset.

Doctorossi 08-16-13 06:10 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by fitprod (Post 11800313)
Nope... 9 BD (2 to 3 films per discs); 18 DVD (1 to 2 films per disc)

Ugh. I can't believe they could make a 9 BD set out of this, but are only releasing a version that also makes you buy 18 DVDs and consume all the shelf-space they require!

I'm sorry, but anybody interested enough in this set to really consider buying it can also drop $50 on a damn Blu-ray player, if they don't already have one.

Hell, for the manufacturing cost they could save by removing the 18 DVDs from the set, they could include a Blu-ray player, instead!

slop101 08-16-13 06:54 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
Agreed. I don't mind Criterion releasing dual format, but I wish they would've started doing so after the Zatoichi set.

GoldenJCJ 08-16-13 07:00 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
Damn, so they made 25 Zatoichi films in 11 years? Talk about over saturation.

Ky-Fi 08-16-13 07:16 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ (Post 11801216)
Damn, so they made 25 Zatoichi films in 11 years? Talk about over saturation.

Although the plots may have gotten a bit formulaic, they maintained a pretty incredible standard of quality filmmaking, IMO.

GoldenJCJ 08-16-13 07:30 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi (Post 11801236)
Although the plots may have gotten a bit formulaic, they maintained a pretty incredible standard of quality filmmaking, IMO.

I've always heard decent things about the Zatoichi films so I don't doubt that but it would be like if all the James Bond movies ever made had been released from 2001 to now. :lol:

BuckNaked2k 08-16-13 09:15 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
So does this mean Criterion is going to a single SKU for every new title?

Hammer99 08-16-13 09:53 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
Finally, City Lights!!! Thank you Jesus!

Ringmaster 08-17-13 10:18 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Hammer99 (Post 11801356)
Finally, City Lights!!! Thank you Jesus!


https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images...ddychrist1.jpg

Nate Boss 08-17-13 10:21 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
9BD, 18DVD...that really lowers my excitement for the Zatoichi set. I mean, I don't need another fucking copy of the films, especially in a box set that would look like shit if I sold them out of it. Would have rather had the choice to get it cheaper in more standard packaging without the damn DVDs. I hope this experiment falls on its ass and fails.

Sondheim 08-17-13 03:16 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
I'm pretty happy about the dual format change actually. There have been several occasions recently when I wanted to loan movies to my friends to watch, but they don't have a BD player. (I've told them that they could get a BD player for just $50-60 - but so far none of them cares enough.)

And even if I never use the DVDs, I have a hard time getting upset about an extra disc that doesn't affect the price.

Agree that the extra size will be annoying though - however, this is only the second time they've ever released a box set of this magnitude, so it's not as if it's going to be a frequent problem.

I hope this experiment falls on its ass and fails.
I sure don't. Even if I don't end up liking the films, I think this is one of the coolest things they've done in a long time.

Solid Snake 08-17-13 03:26 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
About goddamn time we get Zatoichi. I've been waiting for that since I saw them streaming those films on Hulu.

Goddamn. I posted about this on 9-19-11. Almost 2 damn years.


Originally Posted by Solid Snake (Post 10930325)
Uhm...did Criterion ever mention anything more about the first 18 Zatoichi films? They've had them for a while. And i'm watching them in chronological order as well on Hulu. I'd love to get a BD set of these. Are they waiting to get the rest of Katsu's Zatoichi films or what?


Originally Posted by Supermallet (Post 10930360)
I would kill for a Zatoichi set from Criterion.

So....how happy are you now?

BuckNaked2k 08-17-13 05:27 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Nate Boss (Post 11801613)
9BD, 18DVD...that really lowers my excitement for the Zatoichi set. I mean, I don't need another fucking copy of the films, especially in a box set that would look like shit if I sold them out of it. Would have rather had the choice to get it cheaper in more standard packaging without the damn DVDs. I hope this experiment falls on its ass and fails.

I agree with you. Shelf space is definitely at a premium, and having another 18 obsolete discs is just a lot of useless fluff at this point. I might just skip this and stream them. HOWEVER, after noodling the numbers a bit, I might just get this after all during the next B&N sale:

$225*.5=$112.50*.9(membership)=$101.25*.8(coupon)=$81

If I can dump the DVDs somewhere for $5 each that will more than cover the $81. Even though it'll be a "broken set", free is free, and I can always toss the monstrosity in the closet when not watching.

Neil M. 08-17-13 06:01 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by slop101 (Post 11801212)
Agreed. I don't mind Criterion releasing dual format, but I wish they would've started doing so after the Zatoichi set.

I'm starting to think that this set might have been the tipping point for them to go dual format. The positive thing for me is that it looks like the box will fit on normal shelving.

Solid Snake 08-17-13 06:52 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by fitprod (Post 11800313)
Nope... 9 BD (2 to 3 films per discs); 18 DVD (1 to 2 films per disc)... May one DVD is for supplement.

BD and DVD specs do not allow for what you are guessing.

fitprod

What's your source on that?

I will get the Zatoichi set. No doubts about that. But I am not jiving with the idea of straggling that many DVDs along with it.

Neil M. 08-17-13 07:46 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
I think people are assuming the disc count based on the photo. I don't think there has been any verification of it.

Solid Snake 08-18-13 05:30 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
That's what I assuming. I just wanted to be sure. I've been waiting for this for two years almost.

Spottedfeather 08-18-13 10:48 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
I'm waiting for them to put out movies that I've actually heard of....

Greg MacGuffin 08-18-13 11:02 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
You've never heard of City Lights?

OldBoy 08-18-13 11:06 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Spottedfeather (Post 11802199)
I'm waiting for them to put out movies that I've actually heard of....

:hscratch:

Solid Snake 08-18-13 12:26 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Spottedfeather (Post 11802199)
I'm waiting for them to put out movies that I've actually heard of....

I know you've issues with people speaking foreign languages. So I'm assuming you're a cracker. So I'm going to stick to the English speaking films.

Saying that, if you're a supposed admirer of film. I'd assume you'd know a Chaplin film. And knowing that you'd also know his work to an extent. It's fucking City Lights, motherfucker. Even worse it's Chaplin. He's pretty damn big in film. Kind of a master filmmaker kind of guy. A very mainstream gringo.

And not knowing if you're taking about Criterion's entirety or not. They've released; The Rock, Traffic, The Blob, Armageddon, Curious Case of Benjamin Button, The Game, 12 Angry Men, Godzilla, and many other films that are pretty damn big enough or new enough for you to have heard about. So stop with the bullshit.

Draven 08-18-13 01:15 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Spottedfeather (Post 11802199)
I'm waiting for them to put out movies that I've actually heard of....

It is impossible for you to live in America and not have heard of at least a few movies put out on Criterion. I'm not even a classic or obscure film fan and I've heard of plenty.

This is your failing, not theirs. My advice is to get out of the house more.

Artman 08-18-13 01:19 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by rocket1312 (Post 11800705)
My guess is that the 2 disc releases (the majority of titles) will be their usual 2-disc cases, and 3+ disc releases (e.g. Tokyo Story) will be digipacks.

The artwork looks like a DVD sized case though.. :(

LPMA 08-18-13 01:27 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Artman (Post 11802301)
The artwork looks like a DVD sized case though.. :(

The BD artwork of last month's announcements and the dual format artwork of this month's are both posted on their website as 349X490 files. So the only thing that might vary is the thickness.

Supermallet 08-18-13 02:52 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Spottedfeather (Post 11802199)
I'm waiting for them to put out movies that I've actually heard of....

You are not entitled to your opinion. You're entitled to your INFORMED opinion. So go get INFORMED on world cinema and Criterion's releases.

BuckNaked2k 08-18-13 02:53 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Spottedfeather (Post 11802199)
I'm waiting for them to put out movies that I've actually heard of....

You have obviously wandered into the wrong thread.

Nate Boss 08-18-13 05:09 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Supermallet (Post 11802386)
You are not entitled to your opinion. You're entitled to your INFORMED opinion. So go get INFORMED on world cinema and Criterion's releases.

Time to counter the dogpile.

While he may not be informed about cinema very well, let's not argue that the Criterion Collection has been pushing it for years, as their releases have been getting less and less "prestige" worthy, and more and more just bullshit, putting hype and value (AND price) on films that frankly deserve none of it, with LESSER titles from directors in their "annuls" popping up more and more, as if we're to believe every egg laid is golden. Even criterion has admitted it has put lesser titles in its library so as to gain access to the ones it wants (case in point, the amazing how to get ahead in advertising was the throw-in in order to get the distribution rights to Withnail & I.

It's hard to look at the first 100 criterion DVD or Laserdisc titles (particularly the first pressing 53 some-odd black spined dvd releases), seeing the immense quality of films presented in those collections as a whole, versus some of the utter shit being put out today by the label, their newer, non-back catalog BD conversions, aka the high spine numbers. If these "all spine" collectors are still falling for the hype, well, shame on them.

Also, not every film fan is all that versed in the depth of world cinema, from all the decades and countries that it covers. People growing up on Netflix and some of the more basic channels will have never heard of a number of great films. I'd put good money on the poster being criticized here as being someone between the ages of 18 and 24, who mostly has seen the same films over and over for his life.

Not everyone is like the fucking retards at some sites that post text orgasms at criterion announcements, those same people really, as a whole, mostly buying into the hype having not seen said titles. I'd rather take an uneducated on world cinema film fan than the people you see posting on the BD.com's monthly criterion announcement, as at least the uneducated poster here is at least honest. A throwaway WWE PPV event sometimes has more artistic merit than shit like Shallow Grave.

BuckNaked2k 08-18-13 06:25 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
^ You make a number of good points, but speaking for myself, there have been many Criterion releases which I've never heard of either. However, with a spirit of adventure, (and the semi-annual sale at B&N), I have acquired many such titles through the "blind buy". Most of these have proven to be a delight, and still grace my collection today, while several have gone onto the secondary market to recoup my investment (Antichrist ring a bell?).

The point made about releasing movies "he's actually heard of" is moot, since such titles are announced every day from all of the mainstream distributors.

Supermallet 08-19-13 02:18 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Nate Boss (Post 11802523)
Time to counter the dogpile.

While he may not be informed about cinema very well, let's not argue that the Criterion Collection has been pushing it for years, as their releases have been getting less and less "prestige" worthy, and more and more just bullshit, putting hype and value (AND price) on films that frankly deserve none of it, with LESSER titles from directors in their "annuls" popping up more and more, as if we're to believe every egg laid is golden. Even criterion has admitted it has put lesser titles in its library so as to gain access to the ones it wants (case in point, the amazing how to get ahead in advertising was the throw-in in order to get the distribution rights to Withnail & I.

It's hard to look at the first 100 criterion DVD or Laserdisc titles (particularly the first pressing 53 some-odd black spined dvd releases), seeing the immense quality of films presented in those collections as a whole, versus some of the utter shit being put out today by the label, their newer, non-back catalog BD conversions, aka the high spine numbers. If these "all spine" collectors are still falling for the hype, well, shame on them.

Also, not every film fan is all that versed in the depth of world cinema, from all the decades and countries that it covers. People growing up on Netflix and some of the more basic channels will have never heard of a number of great films. I'd put good money on the poster being criticized here as being someone between the ages of 18 and 24, who mostly has seen the same films over and over for his life.

Not everyone is like the fucking retards at some sites that post text orgasms at criterion announcements, those same people really, as a whole, mostly buying into the hype having not seen said titles. I'd rather take an uneducated on world cinema film fan than the people you see posting on the BD.com's monthly criterion announcement, as at least the uneducated poster here is at least honest. A throwaway WWE PPV event sometimes has more artistic merit than shit like Shallow Grave.

See, and I was one of the ones blowing my load over Shallow Grave, because I love that film.

Ultimately, Criterion can't possibly please everyone with every release, but to say that they're releasing stuff that no one has heard of is laughable. I don't expect everyone to know every film ever, but if you don't recognize ANY film that Criterion has released in the last few years, then you aren't even trying to know anything about film.

Solid Snake 08-19-13 08:25 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
And you know Spottedfeather is fucked up if he doesn't know Godzilla. It's fucking Godzilla.

rocket1312 08-20-13 09:01 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 

Originally Posted by Nate Boss (Post 11802523)
Time to counter the dogpile.

While he may not be informed about cinema very well, let's not argue that the Criterion Collection has been pushing it for years, as their releases have been getting less and less "prestige" worthy, and more and more just bullshit, putting hype and value (AND price) on films that frankly deserve none of it, with LESSER titles from directors in their "annuls" popping up more and more, as if we're to believe every egg laid is golden. Even criterion has admitted it has put lesser titles in its library so as to gain access to the ones it wants (case in point, the amazing how to get ahead in advertising was the throw-in in order to get the distribution rights to Withnail & I.

It's hard to look at the first 100 criterion DVD or Laserdisc titles (particularly the first pressing 53 some-odd black spined dvd releases), seeing the immense quality of films presented in those collections as a whole, versus some of the utter shit being put out today by the label, their newer, non-back catalog BD conversions, aka the high spine numbers. If these "all spine" collectors are still falling for the hype, well, shame on them.

Also, not every film fan is all that versed in the depth of world cinema, from all the decades and countries that it covers. People growing up on Netflix and some of the more basic channels will have never heard of a number of great films. I'd put good money on the poster being criticized here as being someone between the ages of 18 and 24, who mostly has seen the same films over and over for his life.

Not everyone is like the fucking retards at some sites that post text orgasms at criterion announcements, those same people really, as a whole, mostly buying into the hype having not seen said titles. I'd rather take an uneducated on world cinema film fan than the people you see posting on the BD.com's monthly criterion announcement, as at least the uneducated poster here is at least honest. A throwaway WWE PPV event sometimes has more artistic merit than shit like Shallow Grave.

That's all well and good, but it really has nothing to do with people's exacerbation over Spottedfeather trolling the Criterion thread *again*. I don't know why people take the bait. He's done it before, and he's done it again and whether or not every single Criterion release is "canon worthy" is totally beside the point.

kidglov3s 08-20-13 09:18 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
Can we compromise with a Criterion release of Wrestlemania X-Seven?

LPMA 08-20-13 09:35 AM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
I'd take a Criterion release of Paradise Hotel Season 1 please!

LPMA 08-20-13 06:22 PM

re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
 
Criterion posted a nice explanation as to why they went the dual format route:


Why Dual-Format?
By Peter Becker


Last week, we announced that in November, Criterion will begin releasing dual-format editions, including both DVD and Blu-ray discs in one package. The response was overwhelmingly positive, but we knew there would be questions. The most common by far were: “Will the package be Blu-ray or DVD size?” (Answer: Blu-ray size, except the Zatoichi box, which will be Blu-ray height in one dimension, DVD height in the other.) “Will it take up more space on my shelf?” (Not if we can help it.) And “Is this going to be true forever?”(Nothing is forever, but as long as it works we’ll keep doing it.)

Those were the easy questions, but we knew there was another, tougher set of questions, because they were the same ones we had wrestled with as we arrived at our decision: “Aren’t you just making DVD customers buy discs they can’t use and Blu-ray customers buy discs they don’t want? Doesn’t this mean lots of waste? Aren’t DVD customers worse off, because they’ll pay more? Why are you doing this? And why now?”

It’s been five years since Criterion announced its first Blu-ray titles. During that time, we’ve taken measures to support our audience no matter which format they prefer. Every Blu-ray release has always been available on DVD as well, and as DVD pressing prices dropped, we’ve even passed along some savings to our DVD customers by pricing new DVD releases at $29.95 instead of our traditional $39.95.

Today, something like 60 percent of the discs we sell are Blu-rays, 40 percent DVDs. The good news is that the growth of Blu-ray has more than made up for the slide in DVD, and our overall audience is growing. But now, instead of having one physical product to produce we have two, and that’s where the problem starts.

The only way we can afford to produce the packages we are known for is to print large runs, because at small quantities the cost per unit kills any hope of breaking even. Larger quantities may cost more up front, but as long as we sell the copies, we can capture the savings over time and deliver you a better, more beautiful product.

Having two physical packages to produce has cut those economies of scale in half. Instead of one big, cost-effective run of DVD packaging, we now need two different runs, each about half as big, one for Blu-ray and one for DVD. But to make the packaging affordable on a per-unit basis, we still need to run the original big, cost-effective quantity of each, meaning, essentially, making twice what we need. The Blu-ray may sell briskly, and the packaging may need to be reordered fairly soon, but the DVD stocks will take longer to dwindle. When we finally run out of DVD packaging, printing another big, cost-effective run will not be an option, because we would never sell enough of the copies to pay for the packaging. And at the price for printing a small run, we might be losing money on every copy we sell. What do we do?

Looking around the industry, we saw lots of answers we didn’t like. We could stop making beautiful, substantive packaging, but that wasn’t really an option. We could stop making DVDs, but that would mean cutting off 40 percent of our customers, including most schools, libraries, and universities. We could just take the DVD out of print after its initial run, but we have always strived to keep all our titles in print as long as we have the rights to them. We could strip down the DVD packaging after the initial run and drop the booklet, but then we wouldn’t be publishing the edition we think our customers deserve. None of those solutions would serve our DVD customers well, and more importantly, all of them would run counter to our mission to keep up the quality of our product and serve our audience as well as possible, regardless of which format they prefer.

The model we kept returning to was dual-format releasing, and the more we looked at it, the more sense it made. What seemed like more waste was actually less. Instead of printing big overruns on two packages, we could now make one big, efficient run again. That would mean less wasted packaging. Discs can be printed in small quantities as needed, so there would be no wasted inventory there either. The savings we’d been passing along to DVD customers had evaporated at this point, but while DVD customers would be back to paying a higher price, they would also be getting a product that was “future-proofed” against the day when they might upgrade to Blu-ray. Blu-ray customers would not pay more for the addition of the DVD discs, so they would be no worse off, and they could even use their DVD copies as loaners to introduce their friends to their favorite films. Most importantly, it would allow us to continue to publish the best possible product, which is what we think you want from us.

So that’s how we got here. We’re still finding our way a bit, but we have a good feeling about this. We’ll still release straight Blu-ray upgrades from time to time, but you can expect all of our new Criterion releases to be dual-format for the foreseeable future. Occasionally, we’ll retire existing DVD and Blu-ray editions and replace both with a single dual-format edition. We’ll continue to use a mix of plastic and paper packaging, but we’re going to do our best to make sure the new packaging doesn’t take up extra space on your shelf. (Check out how compact the Zatoichi set is!) All special features on Criterion discs will appear on both formats, but Eclipse will remain a DVD-only line, in keeping with its original goals and identity.

That pretty much covers the range of questions we received after last Thursday’s announcement. For us, all the questions boil down to one: how can we serve the films and the audience, make the best thing we know how to make, and make enough money to do it all over again tomorrow? Today, the best answer to that question is releasing dual-format editions. We’ll see how that shakes out!


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