Actually, I'd say lots of people buy cars based on looks.

And yes, of course there's pressure on Microsoft to have a better announcement then Sony. I ask again, what makes you think everyone is just hating on Sony and somehow loves Microsoft?

As someone who works in the business, yes. You tease the product and then release something that meets budget, timing, government restrictions, quality, etc... which is what Sony could have done if they actually had something to show.

It's interesting that multiple Sony execs have been hit with the used game question, then hemmed and hawed before saying something like 'well, we can say that all PS4 discs will play on any PS4 and there'll be a way to play used games on it.' Combined with the patent info that was published some time back, I can see them allowing a used game to play for 24 hours (or some other set amount of time), then charging full price if you want to keep playing. Their hesitance to make a direct statement has me at least expecting them to try some sort of system that technically allows used games, but still makes them pretty much worthless for selling. Or they're just trying to convince Microsoft that they're going to do it to try to gain a competitive advantage.

BC is hard, for both Microsoft and Sony, because they are moving from a PowerPC architecture to X86.

For the new Xbox to be BC, Microsoft would need to do something like the first PS3, include a chip there to read the Xbox 360 games. That, of course, may not be cheap.

But, Microsoft won the war this generation. And in my case, and I think most Xbox-centric gamers, if the new console is 100% BC, I would just upgrade right away. If it's not BC, I would think about it. I have two Xbox 360s, I can always upgrade just one.

But my point is, if MS includes 100% BC, they can easily outsell their competition 2-1, or even more.

My guess in the used game issue. Publishers are pressuring Microsoft and Sony to implement something like that. The technology is out there. Available to implement. They are still in talks. They need to decide in the next couple of months.

And yeah, it's either both of them, or none of them. No one is going alone on this.

This! I don't think that one company would do this without the other. I bet the pressure is coming from the game developers themselves and neither company is willing to take the backlash alone.

The now BC on the PS4 is a disappointment to me because I have never been a PS gamer. When the 360 came out I didn't have the ability to buy both consoles. Now, I could probably save and get both and I was really hoping for BC so I could try a couple of those older games that I had hear so much about (Hard Rain being the main one).

And I will be super aggravated if the Xbox doesn't transfer over the XBL purchases. No disc BC I will grumble but will still upgrade. No XBL transfer I will grumble and then probably never buy any other XBLA titles.

Yeah, reading the data from the disc is not the issue.

I'm hoping out hope that some form of Rock Band will be released on the new systems, whether it's a port of an existing game or a new title. If that happens, it may be possible to use the downloaded songs. However, Sony may just set it up so that no game content can be transferred, since it would be useless for most games anyway.

I dont see any hope for Rock Band. Singstar is now a portal that you can download without a disc, and it works with DLC. But if Sony allowed that for RB it would just open the flood gates for other games/gamers begging for their favorite title.

Maybe because he is that way with loving Sony and hating MS?

I do sense a bit of unfair negativity, but very little of it has been over the top, and most of it is warranted based on some serious hiccups by Sony in the current generation.

That said, I haven't regretted for a minute my choice of the PS3 over the 360. I feel like I got value from the Blu-Ray player, I didn't have to pay to play online, and for my taste, Sony maintained a much stronger and more diverse group of second party developers.

Ideally, both Sony and Microsoft would listen to what their consumers care about and try to deliver that at a price point their consumers are willing to pay. I'd like backward compatibility, for instance, but if it would add $100 to the price tag, maybe not. My guess is that most folks say they care about BC, but even if they have it, they don't really use it. On my 60 GB PS3, I think I played Okami and Shadow of the Collosus, and that was it.

That in no relates to what my point was. You are like "we are months away from a release! Why do we need to see it?"

My point being, that we can see, touch and feel a new car model far before it is released to the general public. So it's not like other business just "drop" a product on people at the last second without seeing what it looks like.

Nothing to bash here. 2 hours of a controller. No look at the actual PS4, no release date, no price, nothing. Most everyone on the internet is doing a fine job of bashing Sony right now. They hyped a press conference and announced nothing except a vague "Holiday" date, which we know can change.

I'm out of the next gen. No PS4 and no Xbox 720 unless it literally blows me away...and Xbox hasn't for the past few years.

And yet there are several people who are overly pro-Sony in this thread. We've already had one guy claim Wii U is dead after looking at the PS4's huge controller with touch pad and a SHARE button. A fucking share button. Do we really need that? Do I need to tweet that I did something in a game?

In the long term, I think that's true, but at launch, it's a bigger deal. It's nice to be able to swap a new console into the space the old one is taking up and be able to play through a backlog of games while waiting for the nextgen library to grow. The PSN/XBLA titles are even more important to me. I often will play through one of those between disc-based titles or pop one in when I just have 20 or 30 minutes to kill. It's extremely annoying to lose a library of 50+ games that, at least for me, are played in a different set of circumstances than disc-based titles.

Keep in mind, I'm not fully aware of all the 'perks' PS+ offers, but they do offer stuff that is NOT free games, right? Clopud saving, multi-voice chat or some other BS like that which are features XBL Gold members get, but the free PSN members don't. So those are features that could have been free but instead Sony is charging for. They may have not taken them away, but they certainly stopped the "free" upgrades that PSN members were likely getting for the first few years.

Which is just silly and makes little sense. At least the Wii U allows me to play the Wii VC games via the "Wii" interface, and be able to upgrade them for a $1 in a few months (which Im OK with, as they need to get reprogrammed and will be playable on the GamePad.)

I only have a Wii U and an Xbox 360 hooked up and I've hardly touched my Xbox in months. I tried Dead Space 3 and it felt like Call of Duty (where are the fucking monsters?). My next (and possibly final) game is Bioshock. I'm just going to stick to the Wii U which gives me plenty of games to play.

I agree about the PSN games part, and I would also like to have BC. But if the PS4 had a $500 BC model and a $400 non-BC model, I'd probably pick the latter...especially given that I have 3 PS3s in the house.

The BC issue will be huge at first but will slowly fade away just like it did when the PS3 and 360 was 1-2 years old. The lack of new releases along with new one will slowly move gamers to the new platforms. not everyone jumped on the PS3 and 360 right away. Myself; I didn't get the 360 almost a year after the release.

Why...when your online friends move over and no new releases for your current system you have little choice. people will still hang onto the PS3's and 360's for awhile and why not...there's still a lot of good games out there but who wants to be playing a 2-3 year old COD, Halo, Uncharted, or GOW when the new one is out and everyone is on that. both Sony and MS along with the Devs all know this. It's basic economics in the electronic age.

To be fair, I think some people were just overly excited as the announcement was being aired. After it was over, and more info has started to trickle out, they've calmed down a bit and realized that it's not as great as it seemed.

I never owned a PS3 and even I was hyped. All Sony had to do was show off a few new games with things we've never seen and I would have been happy.

But instead, we got: look how you can share games, our camera is a must, move is going to be amazing this time!, you're really going to want a vita now, ubisoft is supporting us too, just like every other console.

They really blew it.

I don't know why everyone thinks digital downloads are any different than disc based games. They're programmed to run on the PS3. The PS4 has an entirely different architecture. What works on the PS3 won't work on the PS4, no matter how you acquire it.

That's a great idea and I really hope they are looking into that. I would hate to know how much money would be lost if I upgraded my Xbox and then could not used any of the DLC from RB for it.

In a way, DLC kinda ties you to a system. If you buy a majority of DLC on a certain system, you are going to likely stick with them as long as you can keep it around. If both companies throw that away, an Xbox person might switch to a PS4 or vice versa. Nothing is tying you to sticking with a certain company.

My backlog is so great right now on the 360 & the PS3 and with RB dying, I don't know how I am going to proceed. Probably very slowly for this generation. I have basically quit playing MP games and really just use "friends" for leaderboards or the occasional co-op so I really am only tied to the Xbox by DLC content alone. If that goes away, so does any small allegiance I have to the Xbox or purchasing DLC.

I want to buy some new RB songs right now and this is all making me think twice.

Yeah, Wii U is dying for a lot of other reasons. That said, while you might not use the share button, I think a lot of people would.

Exactly this. Disc based BC is less important but still nice the first 12-18 months of a new console when new releases are lean. XBLA/PSN titles still get played on a routine basis due to their pick up and play nature. It's easy to boot up Zuma or Geometry Wars for 20 minutes if you don't want to get involved in a full retail game. It's a shame all that goes away.

Keeping an old system hooked up with an already full entertainment center is an annoyance. Also I've always sold off old consoles to help fund a new console purchase. No BC eliminates that option.

Assuming neither console supports BC on digital titles, publishers will be in for a rude awakening when they can't figure out why PS4/XboxNext digital games aren't selling.

Pretty sure the remark about the Wii U has to do with the Vita being used for Remote Play. And the share button has to do with streaming/video sharing, which is huge right now.

Agreed. I think most of us here are past the age where we'd post gaming accomplishments to social sites but I'm sure kids love sharing that stuff with their friends.