Official Revolution Thread
10-28-05 | 09:07 AM
#376
DVD Talk Godfather
first negative response from an industry head:
I don't expect unanimous praise for something that isn't out yet, but his comments ring hollow when looking at the praise from 2 dozen other big name game companies. It just seems out of place. Almost as if he hasn't actually held or used the controller.
More here along with a video.
Mark Rein, the VP of Epic Games, took time out of his busy schedule to cast aspersions on Nintendo's upcoming Revolution console's controller at the IGN Live event (video here). Epic Games, of course, is the studio responsible for Unreal and the forthcoming Xbox 360 title Gears of War, and Rein clearly favors the Xbox 360 and PS3 over the Revolution. Let the carnage begin!
"Don't kid yourself - you're going to see more gimmicky, crappy, cheap, 'I wish I hadn't bought it' gimmick games based around that controller than you can ever possibly imagine... I guarantee you there's going to be lots of people who say the whole reason for this game is this controller, we made the perfect game for the controller. And all it'll be is about the controller, and not necessarily a great game."
Rein was quick to make it clear that he still expected Nintendo itself to turn out "amazing games," but he soon thereafter held up the Xbox 360 controller, and said "there's nothing wrong with it" to cheers from the crowd. Critics have also pinged Nintendo for the Nintendo DS, charging that the "dual screens" are themselves gimmicks. Others insist that the dual screens are innovative, and afford new kinds of gaming fun.
Later Rein was asked if there was really any interface that could challenge the mouse-plus-keyboard combination for the first person genre of games.
"I could, but it's not the Nintendo Revolution controller. Right.., Didn't you see when Iwata-san held it up? The two controllers are the wand controller, which is like a little remote control, and the other one is a joystick - and it's a joystick with a bunch of ribs under it. Remember the one that nearly destroyed your thumb on the Dreamcast, and on the N64 remember how after you played a game for a couple of hours you, like, had to suck your thumb for a month? It's that kind of controller."
Rein wasn't just after Nintendo. He attacked EA and Activision, calling their claims about the difficulty of producing games on the next-gen as "bullsh*t," and "ridiculous."
"Oh it's gonna take 30 million dollars to make a game or we need 300 people... They're just covering up for their own management incompetence, or mismanagement, I should say... our team size is only about 50 percent higher than last generation, and we're making fantastic games."
There's plenty of more back and forth in the video, if you want to watch 20 minutes of corporate ubergeeks talking shop.
Until the Revolution shows up, and it's not clear when that will happen (although I've made my opinion public), the status of this revolutionary controller will remain mostly a war of words. One thing is certain, however: Nintendo better hope the revolution makes it to plenty of televisions.
"Don't kid yourself - you're going to see more gimmicky, crappy, cheap, 'I wish I hadn't bought it' gimmick games based around that controller than you can ever possibly imagine... I guarantee you there's going to be lots of people who say the whole reason for this game is this controller, we made the perfect game for the controller. And all it'll be is about the controller, and not necessarily a great game."
Rein was quick to make it clear that he still expected Nintendo itself to turn out "amazing games," but he soon thereafter held up the Xbox 360 controller, and said "there's nothing wrong with it" to cheers from the crowd. Critics have also pinged Nintendo for the Nintendo DS, charging that the "dual screens" are themselves gimmicks. Others insist that the dual screens are innovative, and afford new kinds of gaming fun.
Later Rein was asked if there was really any interface that could challenge the mouse-plus-keyboard combination for the first person genre of games.
"I could, but it's not the Nintendo Revolution controller. Right.., Didn't you see when Iwata-san held it up? The two controllers are the wand controller, which is like a little remote control, and the other one is a joystick - and it's a joystick with a bunch of ribs under it. Remember the one that nearly destroyed your thumb on the Dreamcast, and on the N64 remember how after you played a game for a couple of hours you, like, had to suck your thumb for a month? It's that kind of controller."
Rein wasn't just after Nintendo. He attacked EA and Activision, calling their claims about the difficulty of producing games on the next-gen as "bullsh*t," and "ridiculous."
"Oh it's gonna take 30 million dollars to make a game or we need 300 people... They're just covering up for their own management incompetence, or mismanagement, I should say... our team size is only about 50 percent higher than last generation, and we're making fantastic games."
There's plenty of more back and forth in the video, if you want to watch 20 minutes of corporate ubergeeks talking shop.
Until the Revolution shows up, and it's not clear when that will happen (although I've made my opinion public), the status of this revolutionary controller will remain mostly a war of words. One thing is certain, however: Nintendo better hope the revolution makes it to plenty of televisions.
More here along with a video.
10-28-05 | 09:46 AM
#378
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
I don't expect unanimous praise for something that isn't out yet, but his comments ring hollow when looking at the praise from 2 dozen other big name game companies. It just seems out of place. Almost as if he hasn't actually held or used the controller.
10-28-05 | 09:55 AM
#379
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by PixyJunket
Now, what has Epic Games released lately? Unreal 2, Unreal Tournament 2K3, Unreal Tournament 2K4, Unreal Tournament 2K5 and coming soon: Unreal Tournament 2K6?
10-28-05 | 10:16 AM
#380
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I also thought it was funny, hearing him complain about the "difficulty of creating new games" when they have NEVER been creative in any of their games.
Gears of War may change my opinion, but I would be playing that for quite a while, if ever.
Gears of War may change my opinion, but I would be playing that for quite a while, if ever.
10-28-05 | 10:28 AM
#381
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by gimmepilotwings
Let's see, a VP of a company that releases games for the Xbox and 360 who clearly favors the Xbox over Nintendo?
Who'da thunk it?
Who'da thunk it?
To be fair, Epic itself may not have any variety in their games (although I would argue Unreal and the first Unreal Tournament were both something special when they were released), the amount, and selection of games that use the Unreal Engine is impressive. From Epic's perspective, I'm sure graphics are important since they've become big thanks to the Unreal Engine which has been a showcase in graphics. But honestly, it's funny to see people react to what developer's say. One isn't impressed by the Revolution or the controller and people jump all over it. As soon as there is praise, people will jump on those comments in support. Not just for the Revoltion, but for all the new consoles. Just like those that are quick to dismiss comments about the PS3 being difficult to design for.
10-28-05 | 10:59 AM
#382
DVD Talk Legend
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I loved the first Unreal when it came out, I thought it was a damn good companion to Quake and I played Unreal Championship when I was on Xbox Live. Jazz Jackrabbit and Tyrian were also brilliant games in their time. But critical comments on possible creativity in games from a guy whose company has simply updated the same damn game for almost ten years in an genre that was starting to get tired when it was first released (in my opinion) are nothing but horse shit. Also, as stated above, they've been Xbox exclusive as far as consoles go so it's likely marketing hype. Positive or negative, comments concerning any new system coming from companies that have done a bit more than update an FPS engine and have spread development across all platforms are going to have more weight to them to me.
10-28-05 | 11:11 AM
#384
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
I for one welcome his comments. I don't think much of them, but if everyone loved the controller I would be worried.
10-28-05 | 11:26 AM
#386
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
I for one welcome his comments. I don't think much of them, but if everyone loved the controller I would be worried.
10-28-05 | 11:35 AM
#387
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
I think his comments are valid from a FPS perspective, and I've heard a few folks on here saying that this controller should take FPS to a new level of realism.
Seeing that I've been playing some old FPS games lately the only thing that would worry me is how it would work with the other part of the controller. If this thing does what it's being told it can do, it would be hot for looking and shooting.. how will that work in conjunction with the add-on controller for movement would be the big question mark to me.
10-28-05 | 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by PixyJunket
I totally agree, but I'd rather hear a negative comment from a company that 1) may actually develop for the new Nintendo (Epic wouldn't have, new controller or not) and 2) had a bit of variety to their library. I still take it as marketing buzz, notice how the article says he held up an Xbox 360 controller as "good enough," well maybe he doesn't realize that everything that's "good enough" about it stem from things Nintendo brought into the console world, except for having two analog sticks, which Sony brought in.
10-28-05 | 02:15 PM
#390
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
He rips on developers for complaining about increasing dificulty and cost for developing for next gen, yet he goes on to say he had to add 50% more staff.... that's a large margin! Especially considering better technology and centrilized engine development technology SHOULD make it easier to develop. This guy has no clue... and burning bridges in the industry by ripping on other companies is a clear sign of a company that is not going to be around for long.
10-28-05 | 03:30 PM
#391
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He just made a lot of assumptions about the revolution controller, which from all his comments, sounds like he has never used. Most people who have used the controller, say it works great for FPS games, I think I will take the word of those who have actually held and used the controller. Now if he was actually specific in saying something like, " the controller is too difficult to aim with, or using the controller made controlling vehicles difficult..." I would understand where he is coming from, but as it stands his arguments sound like the rants I have read by internet teenagers.
I thought Gabe Newell (or maybe some other FPS developer) had made some comments on the revolution controller, but I couldn't find them.
I thought Gabe Newell (or maybe some other FPS developer) had made some comments on the revolution controller, but I couldn't find them.
10-28-05 | 03:44 PM
#392
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He sounded a bit grumpy. And speaking of the Xbox 360 controller...who wants "good enough?" The reason that we're not still playing with the original NES controller anymore is because quite frankly "good enough" is a stagnant and worthless ideal to live by.
10-28-05 | 03:55 PM
#393
Retired
Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
He sounded a bit grumpy. And speaking of the Xbox 360 controller...who wants "good enough?" The reason that we're not still playing with the original NES controller anymore is because quite frankly "good enough" is a stagnant and worthless ideal to live by.
Game developers and console makers have been simply shooting for "good enough" for the past 5 or so years. And my interest has dropped markedly as a result. Too little innovation, too many sequels and ripoffs.
10-28-05 | 07:49 PM
#394
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From: Osaka, Japan
Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
No loss. I'd prefer a company that makes nothing but excellent FPS games to stay away for Nintendo to be honest.
.
10-28-05 | 10:56 PM
#395
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From: MD
Well some people are incapable of thinking outside the box. Especially when thinking outside the box means it challenges you to rethink and reinvent your core business model (read: unreal engine) to create something that could be even better and more innovative, in a genre that has become stale and driven by how good the graphics are. He's pretty obnoxious from the video too.
10-29-05 | 12:56 AM
#397
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
So anyone who doesn't like it or criticizes it "can't think out of the box"?
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Well some people are incapable of thinking outside the box.
10-29-05 | 01:57 AM
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You guys seem too sensitive to any piece of criticism that comes down the shoot. It reminds me of people posting in Political Talk about the latest political rant from a celebrity, everyone jumps in to lambast the celebrity because they don't agree with the viewpoint. It's just a viewpoint, not the end of the world.