Gus giving those 2 Mexican dudes the OK to kill Hank.

Walt drugged and wondering if he was going to say the wrong thing again

AVC: You had the ultimate example of lean this season with the episode “Fly,” which is what often gets called a “bottle episode” in the TV business, where all the action takes place primarily on one set, with only a few characters.

VG: Pretty much, yeah.

AVC: There was some controversy about that episode though, in that there were some who thought that while the season’s story had been moving forward at a good clip, it screeched to halt for this quiet, reflective, slower-paced episode. How do you balance the demands of a serialized story with the desire to deliver a distinct, entertaining hour of television?

VG: Well, the idea always is to entertain, but it does seem to me that you want to vary the menu a little bit. There were certain financial realities involved with that particular episode. As you said, it was a bottle episode and the reason for doing a bottle episode is to help keep your schedule and stay on budget. Having said that, even if that weren’t the case, even if financial realities didn’t enter into it, I feel as a showrunner that there should be a certain shape and pace to each season, and the really high highs that you try to get to at the end of a season—the big dramatic moments of action and violence, the big operatic moments you’re striving for—I don’t think would land as hard if you didn’t have the moments of quiet that came before them. The quiet episodes make the tenser, more dramatic episodes pop even more than they usually would just by their contrast. That’s the way we perceive it, and that’s the way we try to shape our season.

And actually I feel really good about that particular episode. I’m glad that there’s been a lot of discussion about it, and there can’t be spirited discussion without some folks taking the side that it wasn’t their favorite, that they didn’t dig it as much. While some childish part of me wants everybody to love every single episode, I do also like folks arguing over the episodes and chewing them over. It makes me very happy when I hear that kind of thing is going on. Anyway, the dips and the highs of a roller coaster are sort of what we’re striving for.