I honestly can't remember since I stopped reading these threads, largely due to the same people constantly posting the same things over and over, but didn't you originally claim that the side flashes would turn into the island 'reality', even in a chronological and linear manner? If not, perhaps a real quick recap?

1. We saw Ben summon the smoke monster in season 4 I believe, after his daughter was killed, the smoke monster was called and killed most of the mercs.

2. I don't think Jacob and Widmore actually met, I think Widmore was lying to seem more important than he really was.

can you please share with us what your theory is?

I can surmise that Jacob knew that Ben and Widmore had a war going on and didn't want to interfere. However, when he realized just how close the MIB was to having his plan go through he had to take extra safeguards to ensure that it wouldn't happen. It would have been nice to see a flashback or something but I can live with what happened as Widmore is a smart guy and new about the smoke monster from having lived on the island. He also had the means to do just about anything needed to stop him. The one thing I would like to know is if Widmore was one of the Others then where did he come from and how did he accumulate as much wealth as he had? Those are questions I would like to know some answers to. They're not pressing questions but interesting ones nonetheless.

That was my thinking as well. He was bullshiting. He hated MIB and Ben so wasn't goingnto tell them anything.

It looks to me like the "alternate timeline" is some kind of purgatory, and they all die in the finale, and then the "flash sideways" is about how they "let go" of their lives and move on to whatever.

There isn't much more time for viewers to surmise the nebulous motives and truthfulness of secondary characters who we likely will never see again.

It was a cop out from the producers, plain and simple.

Well I think we can surmise that he got there when his country was going some sort of nuclear/military testing on the island. Don't know where he got his money but Ben had quite a bit of money as well.

What possible reason does/did Widmore have for hating the MIB?

1.) Yea, we saw how Ben summoned the monster during S4. Pretty lame to write it in as "o yea he showed me how to summon him and he tricked me into this". These are scenes that should have been shown IMO. They took time to show the MiB first appear to young Ben, they should have sealed the deal.

2.) And we'll never know, because they through it in as speech instead of showing us what really happened. All we have is Widmore's word on it. How else would Widmore have known about the energy pocket though? He didnt know where it was, just that it existed.

It actually makes perfect sense. The Smoke Monster has been fucking with Ben for a while now to prepare him to kill Jacob. I have to assume that ever since Ben was "fixed" by the Others using the (corrupted?) Light, the Smoke Monster has owned a piece of him.

um, yes Jacob did visit him

jacob told hurley someone was coming and you need to help em get here

widmore also had a list of names, which is why he knew kate was disposable if need be

um, where's claire?

This is the entire untold part of the story that we only have bits and pieces of. Ben booted Widmore off for two reasons. He claimed Widmore left often and also had a seperate family off-island. I'd assume he also was building his company at the same time, like Ben did with Mittelos Bioscience.

It's an absolute fucking travesty that they left this story in the state they did.

They might get to what I consider to be an acceptable finale after all (based on this ep), but they're fucking hack charlatans for all the crap they threw against the wall and clearly won't resolve.

This.

Ben killing Widmore is supposedly against the rules.
But in this episode, he killed him.
Jacob's job is stopping Flocke from leaving the island (remember the cork)....or his job is stopping him from putting out the light.
Good episode. Still very confused.
I think Flocke is going to end up destroying the island like he plans which is why we saw the island under water in the seasons opening episode.

Sideways flashes=what happens to our characters after the island is destroyed/reset. (I think of the sideways flashes as "season seven," because it's showing what happens after the reset/destruction of the island takes place) I think that Desmond is just allowing them to get their memories back of their time on the island. It will "end" that "reality" for them, which was shrouded in lies about their true destinies. But I don't think the way some do that the two timelines will merge. There was a clue tonight in the commercial for the finale where one of the voices was saying something about their destiny. Jacob picked them for a reason...they all had a destiny before Jacob touched them and he just manipulated them for his own purpose. The line he fed them tonight about how they were living empty lives without him...that was because he touched them. Without his touch, they were OK...but Desmond will just help them realize who they are. In a way there will be a merging, I suppose, of their memories of the reset timeline and the island time.

For the doubters, recall how JJ Abrams ended Felicity. There's a correlation in how he likes to end his shows.

I think the island under water is Desmond activating the failsafe, which prevents Flocke from destroying the island. My guess since Desmond has something to do with electromagnetics is that he might have a polarity setting. One way and he would shoot the island into space, destroying it. The other way and he sends the island down to the ocean floor, where it stays magnetically affixed to the Earth, preserving our golden cave.

1.) Ben claimed to have gotten "all those lists" from Jacob, but he admited he NEVER got one in person. Widmore could have the list via Eloise who seems to know more about whats going on than anyone, including Jacob.

2.) Jacob having knowledge that Widmore was coming doesnt mean he did or did not help him get there.

How much input has JJ had into this show from about season 2 on? I have understood that it is very minimal (perhaps just name on the project level).

That's awefully nice of Desmond! Does he get locked up in the final scene for attempted murder, assault, breaking out prisioners, and becoming a fugitive himself?

I don't want to go off on too big of a tangent here, but isn't what is presently happening on the island taking place three years after the side flashes? And if something like this takes place, isn't that simply two separate realities?

Let's be honest though. The story that they're choosing to wrap up could have been told in one, max 2 seasons. The whole Dharma/Widmore/Linus/Others storyline has been thrown out.

They spent a whole season trying to get into a hatch, another season pushing a button and blowing up said hatch (all the while teasing us with the mysterious other stations), one season trying to get off the island, another trying to get back.

Like you said they threw a lot of shit against the wall and it's a little disappointing that they choose what they did to give us a resolution to.

Good theory, but what reason is there for for Des to get them to remember the past life on the island.

that ^ shit right there bugged me

make up there mind

also i thought shit was supposed to stop existing if Locke gets out (as widmore stated), yet widmore was bartering a deal with Locke to not kill his daughter... wtf? didn't widmore tell jin everyone would die anyways

fail

On some of this stuff I don't mind them leaving it us to fill in the blanks. I don't think we need everything spoon fed.

Perhaps more will come out about Widmore in the finale, even with him dead.