I'm about as big a B5 fanboy as you can get but I agree with this. However, it's always been my understanding that the claim that DS9 ripped off B5 came from the fact that JMS originally pitched B5 to Paramount.

Actually, that's not true.

This book is full of photos of the Voyager model, from concept to completion:



I remember borrowing this book from a local library years ago.

Okay, there was never a shooting model of the ship.

Eh?

Multiple sources say CGI wasn't exclusive until the third season.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/CGI_model

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112178/trivia

http://www.star-trek-voyager.net/ser...ics/sb_bts.htm

So they spent the money to build a model for what, reference only?

I don't know, judging by that image...

It's pretty easy to see what's a model and what's CG on these shows.

The title sequence, as mentioned above, is a good example of that.

Look at the ship during the rest of the pilot for comparison, and it's obvious. The physical model is more detailed, and its movements, depending on the situation, are different - restrictive. Those are some of how I spot the differences anyway.

Really? Huh. I could have sworn they never used a shooting model. I guess I was just misremembering all the hoopla the show got regarding its use of CGI.

Still, my point stands- the CGI in Voyager was no better than the CGI in B5.

Of course the CGI in Voyager was better. B5 looked no better than the CGI in Beast Wars and maybe Voyager wasn't the best ever, but it didn't look like they started a cartoon whever an exterior shot was shown.

Much of the early CGI was done on an Amiga using NewTek's Video Toaster and Lightwave3d. Ancient tech.

The effects for ST:TNG look awful too, that doesn't mean it isn't worth watching.

BTW: B5 S2 is a lot better. The CG gets better each season. S1 is much worse than the other seasons.

While not very dynamic, I still buy into the world because the ships look like they're there. We never got the awesome battle scenes we got in DS9 (That orgasmically awesome shot of a galaxy-class ship sweeping up from beneath a Cardy vessel and just lighting the fucker up from every phaser array in "Sacrifice of Angels") but I still felt the weight, realism and texture of the Enterprise when it would slowly drift by overhead.

(All that being said, if they ever do a "Next Gen Remastered" like they are with the Original Series, I'll be first in line on DVD release day)


Doc

I wished they re-did the sound effects for the DVDs - made them true 5.1 especially for those DS9 battle scenes. It was kind of a delayed version of the front stereo, with certain sounds lowered, but not removed (like door chimes and doors opening) so it made sense not to have those in the rears.

It was pretty decent when the surrounds were turned up on my system, but I just wish they did an all-out remix. There wasn't much difference between it and using the stereo track with Pro Logic II.


Something to justify the criminally high prices?

Any word on when the Original Series remastered DVD sets will be releasing?

I love DS9. It's probably still my favourite show of all time. I'm currently really getting into Battlestar Galactica (about halfway into season 2 at the moment) and really like that too. Both shows have very strong thematic similarities, in no small part because of Ron Moore's influence over both shows and while BSG is grittier, darker, more realistic, and pulls no punches (something that even DS9 did in deference to The Franchise as a whole), BSG and its quality would not exist without DS9.

And Sisko was the biggest bad-ass mofo in the galaxy!

Damn right.

I kept wondering why this thread still sat atop my screen, so I clicked on it and now I know. WTF, people? Not watching great television out of spite? Really? Really? There's no doubt B5 affected the content of DS9, but whether TBTB were inspired to change their show to be more like it or simply emboldened to be more aggressive with what they had planned all along, they're both great shows. Does anything else even matter? It's not like B5 wasn't heavily influenced by Lord of the Rings in the first place.

das

No Doubt? "Really? Really?" Again, I will watch B5 one of these days, and because of the praise heaped upon it by you and other members of this board whose taste I usually share will most likely enjoy it a great deal. But it's even this nonchalant, "well of course one is derivitive of the other" attitude that just grates the nerves is all. As I said before, I wouldn't go so far as to write off a show because of obnoxious fans, I can just see how that defensive attitude can creep up on some people.

-Doc

Plus in my case, I've said before how completely uninterested in it I am anyway. Spite is a reason, not the reason.

I didn't say one was derivative of the other, simply that B5 influenced the content of DS9, and that's a good thing. B5 was off in its own world, unencumbered by Trek expectations (for a while at least), and even the DS9 people will tell you that the impact B5 was having gave them the behind-the-scenes leverage to push the show in certain directions. Whether those were their original plans all along or they saw B5 doing something and lifted it for themselves is really meaningless to me, because the whole thing made for some great television. I think you're reading a more negative connotation into my comment than is there.

das

No, sorry, it's the problem with message boards. Tones can be misunderstood, and generalizations can be taken as a personal attack. You're actually one of the more thoughtful posters when it comes to challenging statements rather than criticizing or attacking.

I too hate this odd, "one or the other" theme that seems to present itself whenever DS9 or B5 is mentioned and I wasn't trying to pick a side... my beef was strictly with those that were and I was trying to come to the defense of DS9 fans who are put off of B5 because of its fans. Again, it's not entirely reasonable, but you can't control immediate reactionary emotions (although you can refrain from voicing them). It's not the show's fault, but it doesn't help the show's cause when its fans often times come off as whiney and derisive toward DS9 (again, NOT a personal attack on anyone in particular).

Unfortunately in attempting to stop this back and forth, I've only added to and kept it going, leading up to you walking in on what seems to be a spit-fight between sci-fi nerds. So I'm going to go with your approach. Both shows rock, and competition makes for better results. Let's stop this mindless verbal violence and direct the hatred where it really belongs... Voyager and Enterprise.


-Doc

Now I think that's something we can all get behind.

das

^^ I never watched Enterprise but count me in as one of the many who gave up on Voyager early in its run.

DS9 remains the only Trek TV series I have on DVD.

Same. I've been meaning to get the Original Series for a while now, but I think I'll hold off until the remastered ones get released.



-Doc