I can see what the guy is getting at(maybe). It's not so much he is more over the top than before, it's possibly because he is just getting more screen time than previously. That's my theory anyway, and I can go with that.

I can also go with the angle cdollaz proposed.

Didn't they show it being dark outside the window in Stamford, so they were at least talking until sunset? I swear I remember something like that, but I've already bumped the episode off my DVR.

Anyone else see the parallel between Dwight & Michael's characters in this episode?

Dwight was completely incompetent in his "training" and it finally pushed the other person (Ryan instead of Michael's Jan) to the edge and Ryan lashed out. But then Dwight pulls a Michael and actually shows he does know what the hell he's talking about and starts giving Ryan good advice which sends Ryan scrambling for the notepad.

I think it is pretty interesting that they are both played off as social nightmares (in different, over-the-top ways) yet at the core they both are good at their job.

It seems like they talked from 5:30 until sometime after 6:00. That would be enough time for the sun to go down, for Dwight and Ryan to get back and it would make sense that Pam still had her coat on. I don't think it was an all-night gabfest, something more like an hour or so.

There were so many interesting moments in this episode. Ryan's spot-on analysis of Michael, Dwight's admission that he really wanted Jim to join his Army of Champions, their subsequent bonding, Michael closing another big sale but getting more excited about his pretzel, Pam caught between Jan and Michael, Stanley being happy, Ryan loosening up after Dwight called him out on his superiority, and finally the long-awaited and excellent "reunion" between Pam and Jim (who apparently were actually talking to each other on the phone, according to info posted on Television Without Pity from some of the staff's MySpace pages.)

I don't see how anyone who is a fan of the show couldn't get excited about all of these things that happened that make the show great.

Great post Draven

I don't see why people get upset about others not liking an episode. There was a lot of important stuff in this episode but it wasn't that funny which is my main reason for watch. I couldn't stand Stanley's cartoony run when they anounced the pretzels, Michael's sugar fueled antics, or most of the beet farm stuff. My biggest complaint is that there is no outsider now. Ryan commited himself this episode and Jim is gone.

My favorite moments were all in the Jim/Pam conversation.

I just see the humor this season as being very forced, whereas in the previous season (and a half) it emerged more naturally from the interactions of the characters. There has been a notably increased 'self-consciouness' of the show's formula in the first few episodes of this season that reminds me of the way that Seinfeld became in its later seasons.

Of course Dwight and Michael have always been over-the-top kinds of characters, but for the most part there has usually been some restraint in the writers using that characteristic for humor. It has usually been balanced out between about 50% of Dwight/Michael antics, and 50% of the humor that develops naturally from the secondary character's interactions. But this season, it seems more like it's been 80% Michael/Dwight, and 20% the remainder of the characters. With broadly drawn characters like Michael and Dwight, less is definitely more when you are making a show that is as naturalistic in tone as The Office has been heretofore.

And I personally like the secondary characters as much or more than Michael/Dwight, but I also recognize where they have less mainstream appeal than the more colorful, hyper antics of Carell and Wilson. For the most part, Meredith, Stanley, Oscar (aside from ep 1), Kevin, Creed, and Toby have all but been invisible so far this season. Aside from the occasional brief appearance of Roy, the warehouse guys have been entirely absent. This strikes me as a conscious decision by the network or producers to try and build on the more marketable qualities of Michael and Dwight, and get away from the more mundane and less marketable secondary characters. Which is a pity in my book, because those secondary characters were half of what made the show work so well.

I have always liked the American version better than the British version, so I'm not some "original-centric" bigot. And I'm not at all opposed to tweaking the show in terms of character and setting to avoid it becoming too formulaic, as I understand how difficult it may be to keep a show with such a low-key attitude as The Office fresh and funny. I just don't think that direction the writers have taken the show this year is working, plain and simple.

Humor is a subjective thing. Lots of people much prefer the aforementioned later seasons of Seinfeld to the earlier ones. Some people think that stuff like According to Jim is a riot. I suppose in the same vein, some folks don't notice a change in quality of The Office this season, and some of us do.

This was very funny to me because I know people like this. It seems there are people there before the donut email even goes out. Every Wednesday there's 3 people waiting for the cafeteria to open at 11 for Asian Stir Fry. So, I've seen it and it was funny to me

yup good post

See, the reason that I'm completely OK with Dwight and Michael running amok is that Jim isn't there to temper them. He's not there to put Dwight in his place or to keep Michael in check, since Michael seemed to look to Jim for approval.

I'd be more upset if they had made this move to Stamford and the Scranton office remained the same. It was time to shake things up, introduce some new blood and forge some new directions.

The supporting cast has ALWAYS taken a back seat to the leads, and only 5 episodes in has given us an Oscar-centric premiere, a big part with Angela in "The Coup", lots of Ryan and the most screen time Stanley has EVER received in "The Initiation" and plenty of Creed weirdness and Phyllis's engagement.

Honestly, I think people are looking at Season 2 through rose-colored glasses. I just got done with the DVDs and I can say without a doubt that things are not that different with regards to screen time in Season 3. And I'm glad that Jim's absence is having such a profound effect on the office. That's just good writing.

I completely agree with you. Whenever they announce the employee of the month or there is a birthday at my work, they bring cake. And there are people who I think live for those moments when cake is brought in, running to get to the front of the line. Although some may Stanley was cartoony, I think it was shockingly realistic.

As for all the complaints about season 2, I got into the show late in the party. I didn't like the first couple of episodes of season 1 (especially the pilot, which I thought was a pale imitation of the BBC version), so I didn't continue watching. But I heard more and more positive things about season 2, so started watching and enjoying it a bit late in the season. I watched the rest of season 2 and then all the reruns over the summer, so I'm pretty much caught up now. While there have been a couple of moments that seemed bigger than usual, I really don't see too much difference with the tone of the show, and this is coming from a person who hasn't had any Office breaks in viewing since starting to watch.

I think the thing that makes this season feel different, as others have said, is Jim not being in the Scranton office to temper Michael and Dwight's hijinks. So those two are able to run amok a bit more, but I really don't see a major difference in their characters or the use of the minor characters, who were always kind of in the background and would just pop up for some quick laughs. As it is, as Draven said, all the minor characters have had some notable moments this season. Keep in mind, this is still the beginning of the season.

I will agree that the barn scene was a little overboard, but I thought it was in line with Dwight's character. I especially liked that when Dwight tried to get Ryan to wrestle that his cousin's shirt said FEAR on it. That gave me a little chuckle.

I thought the little carving was funny.

Yes! They should cancel the funniest, emmy winning show on TV before its time just to keep the mundaneness of the British version!

YOU should be a TV exec!



This is one of the most insane, overreaching posts in TV talk in a long time. I find it amusing that someone talks about the network ruining a show by mainstreaming it (without a shread of proof) and then using 'jump the shark' in the same post

Uh, I was posting my opinion... presumably that's what internet forums are for. No, I don't work for NBC, but I have some experience in the TV production industry and I can recognize the signs of network "strategizing." But even outside of that, it doesn't take an industry savvy person to recognize that the show has gone through some concept changes from last season to this one. Those may be self-imposed by the producers trying to broaden the show's appeal, or the bright ideas of NBC trying to turn the show into another flagship sit-com ala "Friends" or "Seinfeld."

In either case, in my opinion it's hurting the show. Similar opinions have been expressed by other posters here. As for "jumping the shark", well there are several posts on the eponymous website that express that the show has indeed jumped the shark in its third season. I won't go so far as to say that, but I do have some concern that the show could lose the charm it has previously established by moving toward being a more generic "hit" comedy.

You are of course entitled to your own opinion, even if your smart-alecky expression of it doesn't add to a constructive discussion of the topic.

Pretty funny episode but I didn't find the dwight/ryan part all that funny. Loved the ending with pam/jim.

I loved this throw-away Dwight line:

"Where are all the animals?"

This was the first Office ep I really didn't like. Dwight is my favorite character, but he was just too...extra in this ep. I do agree with the person who said he and Michael are showing off because Jim isn't there to reign them in, but it didn't make for good tv this week. The entire pretzel thing wasn't funny to me at all, but good for them giving Stanley some screen time.

Speaking of: one thing I think they're dropping the ball on this season (at least while Jim is away) is incorporating a few of the secondary characters more. I think Phyllis is adorable, and she had quite a few great throw away lines in season 2, but hasn't done anything this season. I would like to see her, Toby, and the janitor lady get a little more face time. Not spotlight episodes or anything, just a little love.

I did like the phone call (even if it was all emo), the squeeky chair bit, and "Lovefool" bit (I love the Cardigans!).

So how long until Jim and Karen get together?

I really disagree about Dwight. I think the episode title throws a lot of people off because I really got the impression of Dwight trying to create a "spirit quest" for Ryan rather than just an initiation. What Dwight does is over the top in some sense, but it comes from a real ernestness in the character. He desperately wants to be friends with Ryan, but doesn't have any idea how to go about creating it.

Phyllis has done quite a bit this season. I the season opener, she announced she was engaged and mentioned that everyone in high school though Michael was gay. In "The Convention," she tells Pam to order the more expensive item on the menu, then confirms that Pam'll have to "put out" if she does.

I'm not sure who the janitor lady is, but Toby had that subplot of trying to ask Pam out. He also featured heavily in the gay incident with Oscar, as well as in the grief counselling.

The secondary characters are getting their due. In fact, the only one who's really getting the short shrift is Oscar. I haven't seen hide nor hair of him since the premeire.

I'd suggest Meredith is probably the minor character who has gotten the least attention this season. I saw her in this episode and it reminded me that she was even around.

If you count Packer as a minor character and not just a guest star turn, I guess he has gotten less attention than Meredith.

Oscar hasn't been around because he has been on paid leave for being outed against his will. I don't know where the guy who plays Oscar is (or if we'll ever see him again -- maybe he'll get reassigned or something), but it seems to me they wrote that first episode with the specific intention of explaining why he wasn't around.

As with Veronica Mars, I don't get the complaints. This is the same tasty dish I have grown used to if you ask me.

He's developing a show for Comedy Central:
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/h...me/index.jhtml

Quick question:

Did anyone else think that the wood carving Mose made looked similar to the little mother statue from the 13Th Warrior?

It was a replica of the Venus of Willendorf

ahhh, I knew I had seen it before somewhere. not sure why 13th Warrior popped in my head.

I haven't seen 13th Warrior in a while, but it's possible that they may have made an homage to the venus - it's fairly famous.