MikahC

Spiritual Atheist? Hmm. After some googling, I came across this. Looks pretty accurate to this layman.

Groucho

"Spiritual atheist" isn't a real thing, it's a moniker you give yourself to sound deep to college girls at parties.

adamblast

No kidding. "I believe in magic, *except* for the existence of God."

RichC2

It's more of accepting yourself as being part of your surroundings without the need for "magic" or religious beliefs. In other words, you think nature is bad ass. It's a belief in balance. Doesn't describe me, but I "get" it.

I still think religion is great for some people, at the very least it's a good life plan for many, but a large majority of organized religion is just whacked out.

adamblast

Loving and appreciating the awe of nature? That's natural, not supernatural. Saying you're spiritual implies belief in a spirit, at least if you know what you're saying.

RichC2

True, but spiritual has multiple meanings, not all mean supernatural. Though that is one meaning, probably the most known.

adamblast

The only other one being, as Groucho said: Hey look at me, I'm deep.

RichC2

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why the term never really took off as a label

PopcornTreeCt

I just read an article criticizing Maher's comments about Islam. Author even so far as to call him a militant Zionist in disguise... so what do rational people think? I thought his comments were spot on. A lot of religions have their batshit moments but you'd never see people rioting or threatening to kill over a comic, picture or film.

RichC2

All groups have their stupid moments, lets not forget:

On October 22, 1988, a French Christian fundamentalist group launched Molotov cocktails inside the Parisian Saint Michel movie theater while it was showing the film [The Last Temptation of Christ]. This attack injured thirteen people, four of whom were severely burned.

Of course, that's minor by comparison to just about everything these days.

aintnosin

They say the drug war is racist because it targets crimes disproportionately committed in poor neighborhoods (and "poor neighborhood" is still considered code for a predominately black or Latino neighborhood). Not saying it's true, but that's the argument.

MikahC

Not only that, but study after study has shown that when it comes to sentencing, minorities are likely to receive harsher sentences than whites for the same crime.

Shady12

Poor argument. The below comment, I don't doubt that's true, but THE LAWS against drug use aren't racist. Just because more of one race does drugs doesn't make the laws racist. I do wish the laws weren't in place though.

As for the spiritualism thing I brought up. I don't know if spiritual is the right word. But it's a fact that people have these "spiritual" type experiences. The point is they don't have to point to there being some sort of god. A religious person that as such an experience will think it has something to do with that, of course. Sam Harris is an atheist writer who has a PHD's in both philosophy and neuroscience. He spent a lot of time learning to meditate with Hindu and Buddhist guru's or whatever you call them. Says he's had spiritual type experiences but obviously doesn't mean there's a god. He has a scientific explanation of it based on neuroscience. Course there's a lot of people who consider themselves spiritual but aren't religious. I have to take people's word for it because I haven't had any "spiritual" type experiences. I've always just seen what my eyes see I suppose. I've never even had the experiences of being watched or thinking there was a ghost or hearing weird sounds I couldn't explain.

dhmac

I'd like to read that article - do you have a link?

I think Bill Maher is 100% correct about Islam. I think it is the worst religion in the world.

PopcornTreeCt

I don't have it anymore unfortunately and I agree.

MikahC

Xenophobia lives. Does this apply to American Muslims as well? Is there any evidence (actions, core beliefs) supporting this position?

Shady12

Sarcasm? They think so because core beliefs are to convert, subjugate, or kill non-believers. You're asking for evidence of actions? Sept 11, suicide bombings. Therefore dangerous. Other end of the spectrum are the non-violent Jains. Not in any way dangerous. A Jain extremist would pose no threat to anyone, not even a fruit fly.

adamblast

I have no respect for any religion. That doesn't mean I think they're all equivalent. Scientology is more dangerous than most. Islam is more dangerous than most.

Among the subfaiths that consider themselves Christians, I think the Mormon, Catholic and Southern Baptist chruches are worse than say, Lutherans or Presbyterians. I judge a faith by many things, including the actions and rhetoric of its believers, the actions and rhetoric of is leadership and central organizations, its level of tolerance, its attitude toward modern science, and what I know of its doctrines and supposedly-holy documents. And of course, how resistant it is to treating women and gays with equality and full human decency.

I would not make the blanket assertion that Islam is the worst religion in the world. But I see plenty of things around the world that might lead one to think so.

Bill Needle

That's an odd thing to include in one of the more "intolerant and proud of it" posts I've read in a while.

adamblast

I suppose criticism can easily be mistaken for intolerance if you're used to abject deference.

MikahC

To be clear, no sarcasm.

I don't believe 9/11 is representative of Islam and certainly American Muslims were not cheering in the streets. I think 1st world countries tend to look down on 2nd and 3rd world countries in pretty much any way possible, including their religions -- ignoring the fact that many of the things attributed to their religions is simply the actions of 2nd and 3rd world countries.

I asked for examples not because I don't think there are any. I asked because I have my own list of examples for Christianity. And I know how quickly those of us who consider ourselves Christians dismiss (excuse?) anything that doesn't support 1st world superiority.

Christians lie, cheat, still, murder, and much more, but we'll easily give an out by sayin, "Oh, but they're not true Christians... that's not what the church stands for." However, no matter how many Imams say the same thing about Islam, it's not accepted. I think there are poor people in 3rd world countries who do all kinds of things. I think there are threatened people in 3rd world countries who do all kinds of things. I think there are uneducated people in 3rd world countries who do all kinds of things. I think there are false leaders in 3rd world countries who encourage all kinds of things. That's what scares me, not a blanket "Islam".

Every 1st world Muslim I know is a peaceful person. They're searching for inner purity and connection with Allah based on the teachings of Muhammad. And plese, don't tell me how violent the Quran is. The bible is just as violent because it was written in primitive and violent times. 1st World Muslims are not out trying to fight holy wars and bring down the U.S. Watch the movie Malcolm X and see what he became once he accepted Islam. (And it's not just the movie... it's in most books written about him as well.) But Islam will never get the credit of turning people AWAY from violence. It's confirmation bias pure and simple. We only let in that which confirms already held beliefs that Islam is horrible and mentally filter out anything which contradicts that.

I don't expect anyone's opinion to change, but I talk to way too many Muslim people from around the world to stay silent on the issue.

Speaking of which, that's another reason I love the HBO show Homeland so much. It does a great job of saying there are "decent" people and there are "bad" people. Some of them are Christian. Some of them are Muslim.

Keep in mind, the KKK and other hate groups often identify themselves as Christians the same way some terrorist groups identify themselves as Muslim. Osama bin Laden was most certainly not a Muslim by any real definition.

slop101

Never heard of it. Though there is a show called Homeland on Showtime...

Shady12

Well, here is why some consider it MOST dangerous. If you read the holy book of Islam and the hadiths, it ranks highest on the scale of being scary. Like I said, convert, kill, subjugate. There have been polls in middle eastern countries where an insane % of the population believe it's OK to murder in defense of Islam. Heck the punishment for apostasy is death. Even in Britain, the polls show that a high percentage of British Muslims agree with it(I can try and find the figures if you want..this is all from a Pew poll).

The reason why someone wouldn't just believe the Imams is because you simply have to read the text of their holy book. As long as it says the horrible stuff it does, and enough take it literally(why wouldn't you take it literally if you believe?), that's a danger. Not sure why anyone should be tolerant of such a thing. No reason to respect anything that is based in blind belief without evidence. It's intellectual dishonest. You can pick and choose good and bad from the Koran to make a point of it either being evil or good. Problem there IS bad stuff, and millions believe in that bad stuff.

If you are going to take your religion seriously and be a fundamentalist, which, if you're a believer in a religion, seems like a valid way of doing it, then you are going to be dangerous to anyone who isn't Muslim.

The bible has horrible things, and a valid interpretation of it lead to things like the Inquisition.

The difference is we for the most part moved past that and more Christians are moderate(seems wishy washy to me as a non-believer). The reasons are SECULAR. Scientific undestanding, etc, has led the West to do away with most of the barbaric crap in these books. For example you aren't going to burn a witch because your village got sick because we now know that germs cause disease not witchcraft.

In the middle ages, horrible things were done in the name of Christianity. There was no dangerous modern technology though. Which is why in the here and now, Islam is more dangerous than Christianity or Judaism.

Islam is particularly dangerous now because one crazy bastard can affect millions due to there being technology that can destroy civilization.

It's not being poor for the most part who do suicide bombings etc. Most are very well educated. Bin Laden was wealthy, the 9-11 hijackers were guys with PHDs and so on. You can say they weren't true Muslims by a moderate Muslim's standards. But they do have a valid interpretation of the religion based on it's texts.

There are indeed good and bad people of all faiths. Problem is to believe in them is irrational. If they were all harmless and acted with a positive placebo effect it would be fine. That isn't the case though. Religious moderates give cover to the extremists/fundamentalists by giving credence to faiths' validity.

brayzie

Malcolm got cleaned up, gave up his criminal lifestyle and converted to Islam where he became the spokesperson for the NOI.

"White people are born devils by nature."

"Thoughtful white people know they are inferior to black people."

Just some quotes by Malcolm X while he was a member of the Nation of Islam.

Throwing Copper

Not sure why Bill Maher is taking this week off. It's political season.

There is a repeat tonight.