Giantrobo

Decker

^ Yeah, it's not her fault but she has to say something publicly about this historic cluster fuck. Her publicist must be telling her to keep quiet but it's doing her no favors now that the news is plastered with stories about how bad this sale has gone.

Decker

As if on cue :

LurkerDan

I though the same thing re the code, as the link they provided me to the presale -- in a text sent to me -- was generic. Anyone could use it to enter the waiting room. Sure seems like they could have sent a specialized link tied to my account or required me to enter my code to enter the waiting room, even if they ALSO needed the code to unlock the purchase.

Giantrobo

Yeah but the meme is Taylor watching Fans beat Down Ticketmaster. It does not suggest it's her fault or that she isn't doing anything about the issue. It suggests her watching her Fans fighting back.

Decker

I took it to be her sitting on the sidelines and enjoying watching her Fans take out their frustrations on Ticketmaster rather than on her.

Giantrobo

Ah, I see. I guess that could work too.

Josh-da-man

I can't really blame artists when ticket sellers fuck up. It's out of their hands.

I was in a situation like this a few years ago when I tried to buy tickets to see The Cure at the Starlight Theater in Kansas City.

The Starlight Theater is a small venue, I think just under 8000 seats. I went to their website to get tickets the second it opened, managed to get two FRONT FUCKING ROW tickets in my cart. And then their website crashed as I was trying to check out and I lost the tickets.

By the time I was able to get back on later in the day, the only seats available were in the back. So fuck the Starlight. I ended up seeing them at Fiddler's Green in Denver; general admission lawn tickets, but let's just say that in 2016 Colorado had one plus in its favor that Kansas City didn't. Got to watch the Cure on the grass on the grass.

It never occurred to me to be pissed at The Cure over not getting my front row tickets. It's all on the vendor/venue as far as I'm concerned.

So I don't think it's fair to leave flaming bags of dogshit on Swift's doorstep. Ticketmaster is big enough and around long enough that they should know how to handle things like this.

Michael T Hudson

Seems like the best way to stop the bots is do what Garth Brooks did. His tickets were not able to be resold. I ended up getting tickets for the Sunday show in Houston but it was a cluster.

rw2516

18 million people tried to get 2 million tickets. Even if everything went perfectly there would still be 16 million people whining because they didn't get tickets.
She do do 10 shows in each of the 32 NFL stadiums then maybe people will quit bitchin'.

Obi-Wanma

But how were there 18 million people trying to get tickets when their "Verified Fan" system was supposed to limit the people who got chances to buy them to those who applied and got unique codes? I put in for it on the first day and never even got a code.

Decker

Because as I stated, they stupidly didn't ask for a code to join the queue, only when it's your turn to buy tickets.
And we have no idea how many people have Capital One cards.

The Cow

And you don't actually need the Capital One card to purchase. You just need the first few digits (it's 6 for the Citi card, not sure about CapOne) that identify the card to unlock the tickets. That number is the same for all Capital One cards. I've used my Citi Card first 6 digits several times when they are in on presales, and then charged to Amex.

rw2516

When your turn came to buy tickets, and you don't have a code, were you denied being able to purchase? If so, that didn't effect anything because only those with a code were able to purchase in the order they were in the queue. It would slowdown the process, but not alter who got tickets. Only those with a code would be able to buy in the order they are in the queue.

One show I went to, The Firm 1986, you went to the ticket outlet in advance to get a number. Like at the DMV. You had to camp out to get a number. Day that tickets went on sale, everybody was just hanging around the parking lot waiting for our number to be called. You went in one at a time to buy tickets.

rw2516

How many people applied for codes? How many did they give out? There were only 2 million tickets. If you can buy 2 tickets, that cuts in down to 1 million who can get tickets. There is never a guarantee. There is never any entitlement. No matter how fucked up the system was, the result would have been the same as to how many people got tickets. In the olden days, you think the employees of the record store didn't cherry pick the best tickets first? Scalpers weren't camping out to buy tickets?

Back in the 70s I worked nights. Get off work at 11pm and go straight to get in line for tickets that went on sale at 10am. There would already be a long line. Get in the line hoping you would at the very least be one of the last ones to get tickets. The sun comes up and you look behind you and the line behind you is so long you can't see the end of it. You know none of those people are getting tickets, you just hope you do. Finally, they start letting people in and the line starts moving at a snail's pace. You see people coming back out with tickets in their hands. Lucky fuckers! "Please God let me get tickets. Please. Please."

John Galt

That's what fucked the system though, was all the people who didn't have codes who got into the queue anyway. They allocated resources for the 1.5MM codes they gave out, not for the 14MM people who got in line. The only thing I can think of is that it was a bunch of 20 something girls who have no clue how the system worked and were trying to game it to their advantage. If there was six tickets per code, and one girl got a code, they would have all six trying to enter the queue and whoever got in first uses the code....not understanding it was tied to the original account.

dex14

You have to be logged in to join the queue. If you try to join the queue with an account that wasn't selected for the verified fan presale (the code tied to your account), it will tell you this and won't let you join. At least... that is my experience in the past.

rw2516

That would clog the system and slow it down. If you're tenth in the queue, and five girls without a proper code are in front of you, you're actually 5th in the queue. They would be denied, So you are 5th in the queue whether they are in front of you or not. Just takes longer. Doesn't change the ultimate outcome of who got tickets.
Are people under the impression that while they're waiting and waiting on a clogged up system, people behind them got to jump over them in line? That shouldn't be the case.

I could be misunderstanding. If you are standing in a long line to vote. Picture ID is required to vote. Several people without ID are in front of you in line. They'll get turned away. They slowed down the line but none of them got to vote in front of you. Or in this case buy tickets.

dex14

^^^ these people weren’t in the queue because their accounts didn’t have access to be. TM is saying that that it was just sheer volume to the site in general. I tried looking at a Duran Duran tickets on the app and the whole thing was down.

This doesn’t apply for the Capital One presale. Anyone could’ve tried and been in the queue for that.

rw2516

From what I've read
1.5 million codes were issued. Six tickets allowed. Average person bought three. 500K tickets withheld for open sale next day. That right there is more than double total tickets available for tour.
The code was emailed with a link to clink to enter the queue. Can't enter queue through Ticketmaster. Must use link.
At 10am everybody with an emailed code clicks on link and enters queue.
At 2pm people with Capital One card can enter queue through Ticketmaster site.
Tickets were long gone before Capital One people got on there. They had to be.
What happened to tickets held back for open sale? They just went ahead and sold them.
If this is accurate. For four hours those with a code had exclusive access to get tickets. Site down time not withstanding. Aren't these links that you click segregated from the regular site? They should made sure that the site could hold up to 1.5 million people logging in at the same time.

The only people who ever had a chance, that deserved a chance, were the first 500K with a code to click the link. Everybody else, that's life.

Decker

I'm not ready to give Ticketmaster a pass. I still think things could have been handled a lot better. But yes I agree that most of the problems were just due to the staggering demand for tickets, the likes of which we have never seen before.
​​​​​​
And this I just found out and is important to note :
Taylor never used dynamic pricing. The only seats more expensive than $449 were the VIP packages (like I got in Philly) that were super expensive, up to $899, but there was none of that Platinum Seats crap that Springsteen recently pulled. So good on her for that.
https://variety.com/2022/music/news/...ur-1235419454/

rw2516

That's just it. Had this process gone as smoothly as a swiss watch, there were enough people in the queue, fairly and legitimately, to claim all the tickets in the first minute or so.

John Galt

When TM first rolled out VF, codes were interchangeable between accounts. If I got a code on account A but logged in with account B, I could use the code from account A. They changed that a couple years ago. I honestly don't think I've ever tried entering a VF queue with an account that didn't have a code, but had assumed it would be possible from the initial VF rollout. If they do block you, then they shouldn't have had the issue of 14MM people logged in, and in the queues when they only gave out 1.5MM codes.

Yeah, two separate issues. It wouldn't affect who gets tickets since fans without codes can't enter to buy. But having 10x the demand is what slowed down and crashed the site resulting in all the errors people are complaining about.

This is another issue. There were 3-4 other high demand tours going on sale at the same time. Tyler Childers, Pink, and at least a couple others I don't remember. Having that many scheduled to go on sale is just asinine and puts even more added stress on the system. I would put the ultimate blame on TM for allowing that, but Taylor Swift also could have demanded her own days and time slots which other artists have done in the past.

I think you're mixing up a couple different things Ticketmaster has posted. Historically, VF purchasers for all shows have bought three tickets. They made that assumption for this show when determining codes, but I haven't seen anything posted saying what the average purchase per order was.

I didn't try to buy tickets for this tour at all (I went to see her in 2009 and having that many 13 year old girls screaming in one arena was enough for me). But in the past, the VF links are not unique. You can enter through the website or through the link they text. All that matters is that you use the code assigned to your account. Keep in mind that on sale times are staggered due to time zones. East and west coasts usually have the highest overall demand, with central and mountain being the highest demand per event.

Tickets are allocated based on the presale. The amount for each presale is determined by Taylor's people. It's not one large pool of 2.5MM tickets that gets distributed first come, first serve. It would be more like 1.5MM tickets for VF, .5MM for Cap One, .5MM for public sale (these are completely made up, arbitrary number). There were also season ticket holder presales, amongst others. The other thing they're not saying is they hold back a TON of tickets from the initial sales and slowly release them as platinum and VIP seats leading up to the event. Artists and sports teams have also been selling their tickets directly on the secondary markets at these elevated prices in recent years.

This is basically what it all comes down to. There's simply no physical way for Taylor Swift to meet the demand of her fans. It's an exercise in inelastic demand. The question becomes "what's the fair way to distribute tickets?" and I'm sure everyone of us remembers that exercise from Econ 101.....you have 100 widgets for sale and 200 people who want to buy them. 20 people will go as high as $100, 50 people will go as high as $50, 100 people will pay $25, 30 people will pay $5. Do you give them out to the people willing to pay the most? Do you implement a system of randomness where everyone has an equal shot? Something else?

For all the negative publicity that's been going around, they (combination of both TS and TM) did a great job getting tickets into the hands of fans. From everything I have seen, they really tightened up the VF lottery and excluded people who were determined to be buying for resale and selected the actual fans with the intention to use the tickets. The result is far more tickets for fans at face value pricing, less tickets for resale. I'm sure it's lost in this thread but I posted the numbers on the secondary market. For a tour of this size, the amount available for resale is unheard of. Almost every show is somewhere between 500 and 2,000 tickets where shows of this size normally have 8,000-12,000 tickets listed for sale. The people with these tickets for resale don't have any competition and are basically able to set their price and sell them to those 20 people in the example above who will pay the most.

Josh-da-man

If there were, indeed, sixteen million legitimate people seeking Taylor Swift tickets, that means that one in twenty people in this country of 330 million people were actively trying to purchase tickets.

Does that figure seem a little high? Is she really that popular?

ETA: I looked up the ticket sales for Metallica's WorldWired Tour in 2018-2019, and it was the ninth highest grossing tour of all time with ticket sales at just a hair under 4.2 million, 1.13 million of which were in North America, which is works out to about one-third of one percent of the US population attending it. Which even seems a tad high to me.

At any rate, I would expect Taylor to bump Metallica down to #10 on the list.

JeffTheAlpaca

First time I heard Lavendar Haze at the barbershop and in the car and it sounds like a early 2010's Ellie Goulding song.

Not bad.