Thank you. like I say I'm not the greatest fan of 3D put the wife read the timings wrong. But I've always thought a 3D GB films with the beams coming out would be cool. It was like Dredd (which was a film I saw in 3D on purpose).

And I was right.

The big problem with that is that it actually hurts the new Ghostbusters. You take something away from them for the sake of half-assed fanservice involving half of the original Ghostbusters. It's not worth it. The movie would be worse because of it.

Furthermore, if your position is the new movie is terrible you should be thankful that it stands on its own without tainting the "canon."

The comparison I was trying to make to comic book movies/fans, is that when you really care about a character/series, you are going to be ultra critical of any reboot/reimagining that is a serious departure from the original vision. For better or worse, as a Ghostbusters fan, this new movie has to win me over if I'm going to support it. It's an uphill battle when you drastically change characters, or worse, eliminate them entirely. Yet it's like the studio expected us to just automatically like it because of the name Ghostbusters, that's not how things work. When BvS sparked controversy, the cast & crew encouraged fans to see the film and decide for themselves, they didn't find a way to insult skeptical fans and dismiss their opinions. Why would they? The comic book fans are the core audience. Why is it okay for the cast & crew of Ghostbusters?

The problem is that when backlash started, everybody was quick to just call us sexist and dismiss our opinions. How could a rational discourse possibly follow that? I've only seen Bridesmaids, and many episodes of Mike & Molly which I have to watch at work, but I don't find McCarthy particularly funny. But when I say that, people just say 'well I'm sure you'd be fine if it was Audrey Plaza.' Well excuse me, but who exactly is dragging the conversation down into the muck?

This is the type of thing that also limits mature conversation. This type of sentiment is too provocative. The funny thing is that I'm seeing it from a lot of the same comic fans who were quick to pre-judge movies like FF and BvS and go on about how the changes from the source material were disrespectful to the fans. Who are you to tell me what I should or should not treasure? I grew up watching Ghostbusters and it's one of my favorite movies. If I went into the BvS thread and said that comic books were nothing more than glorified coloring books, you would have thought I was a grade-A jerk.

As a fan of Ghostbusters it would have been much more interesting to see a new story build on the original world and characters established in the first two films. Whether or not the film is better or worse depends on the cast and crew making it. A total reboot could be better than the original, or a continuation could be worse than Ghostbusters (2016), it's in the script and direction. But as a fan, if a new movie is wiping out the previous canon, the film needs to really go above and beyond to impress me. I'm not going to blindly accept the new movie because of its title. I'm not going to get excited about a movie with poor trailers and average reviews, not under these circumstances. It'll be quite easy to just ignore this movie and not watch it, and it'd be great if I could express that feeling without being called a misogynist.

How exactly does it hurt the new Ghostbusters? Someone earlier brought up Star Trek:TNG. Never once did anyone say, "Oh man, that Next Generation show isn't nearly as good because it set itself in the same universe as TOS."

And I know Dan hates this comparison (yet never can explain why because he's laughing too much apparently), but imagine making a new Star Wars film, that completely disregards the original movies and pretends they never happened, BUT they get Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford to cameo in the new flick as COMPLETELY different (and not integral to the story line what so ever) characters. The Star Wars community would go ape shit.

Good grief, here we go again...

Linky

Now I want an HK of the original just to have Ghost Catcher Dare Die Team in my collection.

That woulda been a great line for Spielberg to give Gene Barry and Anne Robinson from the George Pal version of War of the Worlds had he respected that movie by making his version a sequel. But he had to slap them right in the face, right along with everyone who ever saw the Pal version, by making a new continuity and giving them cameos in new roles. That rapist!

Ghostbusters doesn't have anywhere near the cultural cachet that Star Trek and Star Wars enjoy. Those are franchises; Ghostbusters are two movies that came out in the 1980s.

And a cartoon and drink!

And a video game!

I'll say that to a certain subset of people, Ghostbusters is on par with Star Wars. That subset of people is much smaller than the billions of people who flock to Star Wars movies.

And LEGO sets!

And a collection of epic threads on DVDTalk

So, that's not quite what I was laughing at.
and
I was laughing at "Hana Solo" more than anything else. I don't think your analogy is quite the same as Ghostbusters, but I get what you're saying. Your argument suggested that the replacement characters are exactly the same, but they're not. They have different occupations, personalities, etc.

The stuff about recasting the original actors might be more in line with what's happening here, and I get that, but as Guru pointed out, it's been done in a bunch of other franchises. Not sure why those kinds of cameos, if minimal, matter too much. But I get it. You don't like it. That's alright.

You are absolutely right. But it does have that same appeal to a select few of us. And I would argue that most of the people against this movie probably feel the same way that I and Dave feel. And we express our dislike for the treatment of this movie here, because it's a message board to discuss all things film. Of course we won't agree... doesn't mean that either of us are wrong.

The sad part is that a bunch of asshats think that by posting terrible and evil shit in the comments section of YouTube or the official Facebook page they are helping the cause, but that does nothing except make all of us who are not interested in the film look like 8 year old children having a temper tantrum.

You may not agree with my Star Wars comparison, that's totally fine. In the end, it's just a movie and any argument or negative thing said here I don't take the least bit personally. I just enjoy me some good ol' fashioned movie debate.

In the end, will I ever see this movie? Of course I'm going to watch it eventually. It's Ghostbusters, based off a movie that I hold near and dear to my heart. Will I shell out money to see it in the theater? Nah... But when someone uploads an HD rip on a torrent site? I'll give it a download. And if for some odd strange reason the movie surprises me, I'll buy it. And I'll see the sequel.

Me standing my ground and saying, "I don't care if you open at $55 million, you're not getting my $15" is about as much effort as I really want to put in to show my dislike for what has happened. I have better things to do than troll a Facebook page or constantly rate the flick one star on IMDB.

But I'll always have time for DVDTalk

Yep. Same tired arguments, different day.

I've never once argued with someone over whether a cameo appearance is an insult before. It's a brand-new argument. Certified Fresh.

I was totally digging your post. Right up until

Just my opinion, but doing this doesn't make you better than the group of people who are trolling Facebook pages, or reddit, or giving it 1 star on IMDB. If you can't wait for a legitimate free streaming option, you can pay $5 for a matinee, or $2 at your local cheap theatre, or hell, just buy a ticket for some other movie then walk into GB. The last of which is only marginally better than the entitled, "I'm not interested enough to pay, but I'll steal it" argument. You made excellent points throughout your post. I even agree with you mostly. But not that seeing the film totally illegitimately makes any kind of statement other than, "I deserve to watch it for free."


Anyway, Polygon did a good article on the things you and DaveyJoe are saying about this reboot:
http://www.polygon.com/2016/7/13/121...riticism-anger

Hilarious backlash to positive reviews. There's really something fundamentally broken about these guys. Love this response though:

That's good.

Well...something I've enjoyed throughout my life is now inextricably tied to something I can't stand: feminist vs MRA gender politics sniping. Thanks world!

Thanks, I was born in 1985. Ghostbusters was probably the biggest pop culture phenomenon of my childhood. My friends and I had all of the action figures. We had the firehouse playset, the Ecto 1. We strapped the proton packs to our back and ran around looking for ghosts. We drank the Hi-C Ecto Cooler and watched The Real Ghostbusters animated series(the Boogieman episode gave me nightmares!). On road trips I had the Ghostbusters 2 soundtrack cassette on repeat in my Walkman. It was probably the first time my white bread ass was exposed to R&B and Hip Hop. To this day my friends and I watch both movies on a regular basis. Last year they released the original film for the 4k remaster. I all ready had the BD pre-ordered, but I wasn't going to pass on a chance to see it on the big screen. My friend and I took our girlfriends, to our amazement, they had never seen it!

I should have been as happy about a new Ghostbusters movie as Star Wars fans were for TFA. I read stories about the excitement viewers felt when the lights dimmed. Grown men who saw Star Wars as a kid in 1977, were now taking their children to see TFA and when the horns blared and the crawl started, they felt like a kid again. It saddens me that not only will I ever experience that feeling, but me and a legion of Ghostbusters fans have been vilified on social media thanks to a vocal minority of jerks.

On behalf of all Ghostbusters fans, I apologize for the sexist jerks, they don't represent all, or even most of us. But every fandom has a shitty subsection of creeps. That doesn't justify the level of vitriol that has been spewed right back at Ghostbusters fans in general. And to those who like to denigrate the original films to make a point, to those who keep coming in here to say "All this fuss over Ghostbusters? I like it, but it's not (insert renowned film from a completely unrelated genre and era)..' I hope this never happens to you. I hope your favorite film series isn't rebooted, with its original timeline erased, and that you don't have to suffer countless blogs calling fans of the original 'cave-dwelling knuckle-draggers' and 'mouth-breathing neckbeards.' You don't have to like Ghostbusters 2, but I'm damn sure not going to apologize for loving it, and being disappointed in the direction of this new movie.

It frustrates me that on this forum comic fans can rant and rave about Snyder and Trank freely and all is well, but Ghostbusters fans are treated like pieces of shit. I guess my franchise just isn't considered important enough like Star Wars or Fantastic Four so that fans should be treated with respect. In fact there's been an alarming amount of leniency towards those who are using snark and an insulting tone to minimize the opinions who are critical of this film. I'd like to express myself in a mature conversation, but I'm afraid my opinion will be dismissed and I'll be labeled a misogynist. Sadly, I don't feel like this thread is a safe or friendly environment for people like myself, and it goes way beyond a couple of sexist people nobody takes seriously.

Why does it limit mature conversation (that actually made me laugh when i read it.....mature conversation about Ghostbusters movies.....lol)? And why is it provocative? I can understand a person being a fan of a movie, but i find it unrealistic when that person sees the movie as something other than what it actually is. The original Ghostbusters was a well made family fun comedy that did exactly what it set out to do. It is not however anything that could be analyzed for years due to its indepth storyline, world class acting or sublime postmodern characterization. I think you are completely missing the point with this discussion. I am not saying that you shouldn't treasure it, and you certainly have a personal love for it....which is great.....but don't try putting it on a pedestal next to truly great movies that are considered much more important and think it gives them a run for their money. That was the point i was making. I grew up as a Star Wars fan and was a kid at the time. To me they were my favorite movies, but as i grew up i could see them for what they are. Great movies that entertain, but they are not high art. Just because you love something does not mean any criticism thrown its way is unwarranted. Thats blindly loving something and pretty small minded if you ask me. I love discussing my favorite movies with people and hearing their opinions, and the conversations with ones who are most diametrically opposed to mine tend to the be the most fulfilling as it gives me a different perspective.


Getting back to Ghostbusters and its sequel let me give you an example. I am probably the worlds biggest Blade Runner fan. I have been watching it since it originally came out, have seen it at the cinema on numerous occasions and have watched it thousands of times. Not to mention reading many books on it, watching documentaries on it and even collecting a lot of things from it. Next year we are finally getting a sequel. How do i feel about that? Well it seems to have a lot of great people involved in it and i have high hopes. But heres the thing.........even if it sucks and is a horrible mess, i will still always have the original movie to go back to and enjoy.

DaveyJoe, my personal connection to GB is nearly identical to yours. Although, I was born in '82. GB is a bigger part of my childhood than any of the other franchises mentioned here. I couldn't take any meaningful stance about Star Wars, Star Trek, or Marvel, although I've enjoyed some of the films/shows from each.

I think the biggest difference is that I never took offense to the reports/claims that a lot of the online fans are sexist pricks, mainly because I never felt like they were saying ALL of us are that way. And although I never felt really passionate about a sequel or reboot all these decades later, it seems like this one will be as good or better than GB2, which is more than I would have expected when it was in development hell.

I get snarky with some of the arguments made (backpacks, marketing, etc.) because I don't think these things are that big a deal. The movie itself is what matters.
We've seen specific posters (one who is still suspended) make outright sexist comments. I'll personally tone my snark down, but not in response to those things.

There's a big group of fans online that insist that "the easily offended" are ruining movies, yet they're the ones getting the most offended in this whole situation.

As I mentioned before, if you're not a sexist prick, great! You've passed the test of not being an internet asshole. When people write articles about the sexist pricks, they aren't talking about you or me.


This is the only truly important thing that I think you and I disagree on. At no point would I claim that Ghostbusters fans have been vilified as a whole. Even the loudest commentators I've seen talking/writing about this whole situation... none of them are saying we're all woman-hating misogynists. They're just not. Even the ones using "GhostBros" have been pretty clear on that, I think. They're criticizing a specific toxic sub-set of fans. If you and I aren't part of that toxic group, we're not the targets of those criticisms. I recommend re-reading some of the specific articles/comments you take issue with, and see if you see it under a different light. Yes, you'll find random asshats on facebook and twitter saying that all fans are sexist pigs, but those people aren't writing articles/blogs about it. Those opinions are just like the vocal minority of jerks you describe, just from the other 'side.'

My son was born in 1984, shortly after Ghostbusters hit theater. That was a good year for me, and I will always have great memories of seeing the original. When I go see a reboot or remake, I never worry about my "childhood memory" being destroyed by someone else's vision of source material. To me, that makes about as much sense as people who grew up watching the Judy Garland version of The Wizard of Oz (itself a remake, lest we forget) being upset when they made The Wiz, The Muppet Wizard of Oz, or any other number of versions of the Oz story. Or the different versions of King Kong we've been given. I just go with it, and enjoy them for the entertainment portion of my life that they are.