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-   -   "Transformers"...the (more than meets the eye) reviews thread. (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/504853-transformers-more-than-meets-eye-reviews-thread.html)

Altimus Prime 07-09-07 02:57 PM


Originally Posted by chanster
Do you have to be a jerk about it? Unless you are a hard-core collector the names are incredibly similar and Amazon has it labeled it wrong. Calm down.

You are reading something into my post that's not there. Calm down yourself.

Regarding another comment about Barricade and his fight with Optimus apparently being cut ... and speculation that the effects weren't finished... I find it possible that they decided to leave Barricade's fate unclear because they would want to bring him back in a sequel. He got a good bit of development as a character, unlike many of the other TFs, and he's pretty damn cool in both his forms, and I can see the producers deciding he would be wanted in a sequel.

Doc MacGyver 07-09-07 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by Cartload
Maybe they can work in the character of Chip Chase ;)

Only if he has no lines and is stepped on by one of the Robots.



Originally Posted by RocShemp
Any word as to whether Steve Jablonsky's score will get released? The more I watch the movie, the more I dig the score. Yes, the military theme is derivative of previous Bay film scores but it's a lot of fun. And my favourite theme is the eerie Decepticon theme. I also can't get out of my head the Autobot's arrival theme. It's a shame they've thus far only release a crappy album and not the score.


Ditto on all counts. I've been humming the Autobots arrival theme for a week, now.




Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
After a day of letting the film sink in, I love it much more. There is a nearby DLP theater here, so I'm going to plan a second viewing for that. I hope I catch the Starscream-led attack. If I can spot it, I'll probably bust out laughing because that is truly a cowardly, typical Starscream-esque move. He's definitely my favorite from the film, although Prime and to my surprise, Bumblebee, were handled extremely well. I thought Barricade was great too. He got quite a bit of screen time.


The DLP showing in King of Prussia here outside Philly looks fantastic, enjoy! And I totally agree about Barricade. I enjoyed from the second he showed up in the garage until the end of his fight with BumbleBee. Totally aweseome.



Originally Posted by Altimus Prime
Regarding another comment about Barricade and his fight with Optimus apparently being cut ... and speculation that the effects weren't finished... I find it possible that they decided to leave Barricade's fate unclear because they would want to bring him back in a sequel. He got a good bit of development as a character, unlike many of the other TFs, and he's pretty damn cool in both his forms, and I can see the producers deciding he would be wanted in a sequel.

I was wondering if that was the case myself. If so, while I'll miss the chance to see Optimus whup up on not one, but two decepticons on the freeway, I'm fine with keeping Barricade alive for the sequel. As already stated, he got a great reaction, it seems. I dug him, and I know when he ran, jumped and transformed after BumbleBee and the rock music started, both audiences I've seen it with went nuts.


-Doc

fujishig 07-09-07 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by Altimus Prime
You are reading something into my post that's not there. Calm down yourself.

Regarding another comment about Barricade and his fight with Optimus apparently being cut ... and speculation that the effects weren't finished... I find it possible that they decided to leave Barricade's fate unclear because they would want to bring him back in a sequel. He got a good bit of development as a character, unlike many of the other TFs, and he's pretty damn cool in both his forms, and I can see the producers deciding he would be wanted in a sequel.

He also got his butt handed to him in a one on one fight with Bumblebee.

In all honesty, they should have just cut the little scene where he checks in with the other Decepticons. Then the audience was free to assume that his earlier fight disabled him, at least for the final fight. Or maybe just a stupid scene of him getting caught in traffic.

Of course, the people that I saw it with didn't even notice...

Doc MacGyver 07-09-07 03:34 PM


Originally Posted by fujishig
He also got his butt handed to him in a one on one fight with Bumblebee.

In all honesty, they should have just cut the little scene where he checks in with the other Decepticons. Then the audience was free to assume that his earlier fight disabled him, at least for the final fight. Or maybe just a stupid scene of him getting caught in traffic.

Of course, the people that I saw it with didn't even notice...


I'm just going to assume he saw Prime 'wolverine' Bonecrusher through his noggin and - being that he is smaller than Prime and Bonecrusher was bigger - decided to sit the rest of the movie out.

-Doc

DthRdrX 07-09-07 03:50 PM

Here's what Bob Orci had to say about some of the unanswered questions ....

Spoiler:

Q: First off, I'd like to thank Bob for being coming to Botcon. What were your impressions of the Botcon convention and would you and Alex be willing to return to another one? And what are Paramounts plans, specifically, for the footage they shot there of the first panel and such?

A: First, we were grateful not to be beat up.

The folks at Hasbro are truly cool, and they truly care about what they're doing.

I have no idea what they are doing with any of the footage from panels.

Hanging out with Cullen was awesome.

Listening on true fan reactions was priceless.

We would absolutely come back.

Q: Was the Brawl/Devestator mixup on purpose, or was it indeed an editing oversight?

A: It's an Easter Egg for movie 2.

Q: 1) How come the Allspark created TFs were all Decepticons?

2) WAS there a scene that introduced all the Decepticons, similar to the one that showed all the Autobots?

3) Why did you guys make Megatron stronger than Prime? Is it simply that they are are of the same power, but Megatron is simply a little BIGGER or is Megatron just better than Prime is period? Or was Prime just having a bad fight this time?

4) Was there more Megatron/Starscream insults that didn't make it?

5) Can they do a George Lucas and digitally add more Transformers stuff to the movie on DVD post-movie? This IS ILM we are talking here. I'm talking adding Transformer scenes, dialogue, fights. Making a more gripping Jazz death scene. The human stuff is fine where it is.

6) What happened to Barricade? In the novel Prime clobbered him along with Bonecrusher (which was why he was late). Did he truly escape? Scorponok too? And where exactly is Starscream going?

A: 1.) Prime intended to use the Allspark to repower Cybertron as it was intended. Megatron wants to abuse it by creating Transformers directly, which makes souless, primal Transformers.

2.) No. We wanted to keep them more mysterious, and they didn't have a human to introduce themselves to.

3.) I think a little of both. I agree that Prime should've gotten in a few good hits.

4.) A couple. Yes.

5.) Interesting.

6.) You'll find out, I'm sure!

Q: What were some of your favorites scenes that did not make it in the final cut?

A: Sam and Mikaela breaking into their own high school after hours with the Autobots.

Q: Now that it's in theaters and seems to be doing very well - what do you think of this fan interaction process we had here? Do you think it's something that you would do again for other movies?

A: We both feel the process was invaluable. I don't think this movie could've been made or promoted correctly if fans had not been part of the equation.
Yes. Anything with an established fan base belongs to all of us, so we see it as our responsibility to continue to find out what others think.

Q: 1. How will Sam explain to his parents that his car is now a 2009 Camaro?

2. What are the Autobots & Decepticons going to fight over now that the Allspark has been destroyed?

Now my questions

3. What happened to Barricade & why wasn't it shown?

4. How did Bumblebee regain his voice and why wasn't it explained?

A: 1.) By the end of the movie, they know the truth.

2.) If I knew that, we'd be writing the sequel.

3.) Threads for movie 2.

4.) When they Autobots land and introduce themselves to Sam and Mikaela, Ratchet explains that he's been working on BB voice and actually treats him with a regenerative plasma laser. By the end of the movie, it's worked its magic, but I agree it could've been clearer.

Q: -What does Jazz say when he jumps on Brawl?

-Was Sector 7 meant to be taken lightly? They came off a little slapstickish. I'm guessing it was just John Tututro's character.

-When Prime kills off Boncrusher he turns and looks at something... Barricade?

-How come it would turn dark so quickly? (Blackout scene and BB/Barricade scene.) Both of those scene were in full daylight one minute and pitch dark the next.

A: 1.) Can't remember. Have to go back and check. We wrote multiple lines for battle.

2.) Yes. Turturro was written that way. We didn't want to lose the fun of the cartoon, and we were already playing the military totally straight so we gambled that it would give us some freedom to go a little nuts.

3.) Don't know...

4.) Long chase

Q: There seemed to be an entire sub plot that was very un-necessary. This is where the Dept. of Defence recruits a bunch of High Schoolers and College students to crack the code... or virus... or whatever. Basically, it intruduced us to the obligatory hot brainy chick with that aussie accent to make her sound smarter and more sophisticated, then the takes a 2GB SD card to her bud so that he can quit playing PS2 long enough to get busted by the Feds, eat a bunch of donuts to show how calm he is- and then cracks just like you knew he would. This continues to Hoover Dam and we eventually leave them behind.

So far as I can tell, these two did nothing to advance the story or plot, but only existed to provide a few laughs.

Were these 2 brought in because someone higher up requested them? Did I miss their purpose to the story? What in fact did they contribute?

A: For non fans, you are probably right. For newbies, we wanted to make sure we had a story mechanism to explain certain things in a deliberately paced manner.

Maybe it wasn't necessary, but laughs are worth their weight in gold.

Q: 1.what happened to Barricade?
2.Why wasn't the death of Jazz given more weight?
3.Did you have Prime pull that piece of the all spark out of Megatrons chest for the possibility of furture use? (or plot divice?)
4.Are there any questions you thought we'd have that we haven't asked?

A: 1.) Robot in disguise.

2.) Good point. We debated Bay about that, but the realities of production and movie length made it difficult to deal with.

3.) Could be.

4.) let me think about that. I'm sure there are.

Q: Was it really Starscream that fired that first missle at Megatron?

A: Very interesting rumor.

Q: You said you disagreed about Jazz's death scene with Bay. There have been rumors that he is a difficult director to work with, is this why you aren't working on the sequels, or did you already have other projects to work on?

A: We have a great relationship with Bay, and it was actually a breeze to work with him THIS time.

We agreed that someone should die, but we wanted to also to make sure we
really felt the death by being more connected with Jazz to make it more meaningful.

Q: Roberto, one of my favorite things about the movie was Shia. I thought he was pure gold and has a bright acting career ahead of him. He could easily be the next Harrison Ford or Tom Hanks. When you were writing Sam's part, did you ever envision him being played as well and as... funny! I could not stop laughing at his every line.

A: We wrote him as the 2007 version of "Marty Mcfly." So yes, we lucked out with Shia in that he played it perfectly.

Q: If Bonecrushers hates everything, does that mean that he hates hating things?

A: always wondered that about Grumpy Smurf, too.

Q: 1) why did the Autobots tell Sam to climb that building to get to a chopper for an airlift, while Megatron and Starscream are jets and can take him out even more easily that way? Seemed rather illogical to me..

2) how sure can you be that certain eastereggs like Brawl/Devastator and Barricade vanishing will be picked up by the next script writers? What if they don't get it?

3) after seeing Weaving doing Megatron, are you 100% happy with it or do you think Welker could have done an even better job then Weaving did?

4) same question about the face plate on Prime, I know you were in favour of keeping it on permanently.

A: 1.) Autobots are suppose to be covering him.
2.) So many people from movie 1 are coming back that I'm sure they'll know.
3.) Honestly, I think either would've worked, but I was happy.
4.) I think we would've kept it on the whole time.

Q: How did the Decepticons get on Earth and how long have they been here? It seems like they've been around for a while just waiting to strike.

A: Got there a while before Bumblebee, trying to stay in disguise while they search for Megatron. I think one of the prequel novels covers it.

Q: i really liked the movie and the idea of Bumblebee not talking worked for me. i don't really have a question, but more of a request. if you can, please tell the people in the DVD department we need the trademark "transforming" sound added on anytime a bot transforms, thanks.

A: Will do.

Q: Marry me?

A: What about poor Alex?

Q: You've suggested via comments that lines that you and Alex wrote for the Autobots/Decepticons and scenes with them were cut.

Were these lines recorded by the voice actors?

And if so, would that increase the chances of an "extended edition" of the film? I want to see Jazz given the character development that he needed and some more Decepticon dialog. Plus clarification of the whole Bumblebee voice thing with an added line or two.

A: Many lines were recorded for the movie that did not make it, sadly.

We agree that Jazz' death could've meant more and BB voice thing could've been clearer, but there was an explanation for the voice thing.

Q: Were the lines that got cut the final Transformers lines you added??
Out of curiosity, how many lines for each Transformer got cut and who were they??

A: Once we had all the voice actors hired, we wrote a few new lines for each to record that weren't in the script.
A handful of lines didn't make it to the final cut for each Transformer.

Q: erm so that is 5 lines times 10 robots (I can count woohoo!), thats quite a lot Roberto!!!!!

A: exactly -- it adds up quicker than you think.

Q: Whose idea were Prime and MEgs personalities(in the clips I saw, wuite interesting) Was Prime based at all of Optimus Primal. Why did you have Megatron so much more anti-organic?

A: It's a harmonic blend of ideas. Partly the words, partly his use in the story, but in his case, also mainly how he moves.
His physical characterization, in my opinion, is his most defining trait. A mix of ILM, artists, Bay, etc....

Q: In any case, I'M NO GI JOE FAN, but was wondering if Hasbro has considered using one of the TF sequels as a method to start a GI Joe movie series? With the Department of Defense playing such an intricate role in this movie, Along with the fact that human weaponry can damage and kill Transformers in this timeline(unlike the TV series), it would be an interesting spin off. GI JOE was a Special Ops force, and you have the nucleus for GI Joe in Tyrese(Epps), Josh(Lennox) and the other soldiers who help the Transformers in the movie.

Tyrese would make a great ROADBLOCK

A: Great area of inquiry. Simon Furman's guide was a great cheat sheet for us, and there are a couple of great chapters between the Transformers and G.I. Joe that we were inspired by, as was John Rogers, I believe.
It would be a great crossover at some point.

Q: 1) Out of all the Autobots, why did you choose Jazz to die?

2) Does Ironhide belong to Lennox now or did Ironhide just drop him off to his family?

3) If Megatron rips out sparks, what does he do with them? Jazz's death seemed survivable by TF standards. Now showing Megatron ripping out Jazz's spark close up and showing the reactions of the Autobots would have worked even better...

4) Do all the Autobots stay with Sam taking up valuable parking spaces or is just Bumblebee staying with him while the others are off doing...something.

5) Did you write something like Megatron's eyes glowing while sinking to the bottom of the ocean after the credits? I was so hoping that was going to happen...what were you aiming for showing after the credits had rolled? Cutting room floor? Didn't make it past discussion?

A: 1.) Interestingly enough, we 3 chose him because we thought he would be the one you would least want to die after Bumblebee and Prime, whom we surely did not want to kill.

2.) I wonder that, too.

3.) I don't disagree. Money's tight!

4.) LOL

5.) of course we did. We always say, "shoot it both ways, and choose in editing!"

Q: 1.) When Frenzy escapes Air Force One, was it written to have Barricade project holograms of people to try and hide the scurried little Decepticon? It seemed that way on screen, but not quite, and I wasn't sure if Frenzy mocked a bunch of FBI Agents right in front of them or what! Additionally, if that were the case, wouldn't it be interesting to see Decepticons in later films projecting entire populations to hide as say, the Pentagon, or some other military establishment.

2.) You've already been bombarded by questions about Barricade disappearing. In my eyes, he certainly wanted the glasses- though I couldn't shake the feeling of Double Agent in Disguise. In your opinion as a viewer, would you be entertained by the thought of Barricade revealing himself to the audience as Prowl in Movie 2? That perhaps only Prime knew about Prowl's secret mission to infiltrate the Decepticreeps?

3.) Were you responsible for suggesting Uhura's like of 'Hailing Frequencies Open..'? It was a good touch amongst the rest of BB's music.

A: 1.) No, we never thought to use holograms in that scene, but I know what you mean. You are right that holograms could be used to great dramatic effect, like the masks in Mission Impossible.

2.) Another great idea.

3.) We always stay away from referencing ourselves. Mark V realized early on that we could use any lines from movies out of any of the movies in the Paramount libraries, like Star Trek. Don't know who in the sound design process came up with that, but I loved it. If we had suggested that, it would've seemed like shameless self promotion, which Bay obviously did not have a problem with as evidenced by his last minute "Armageddon" line!

Q: Is it true you guys had trouble keeping Lindsey Lohan out of Jazz's trailer?(Yea, I'm a bit sauced tonight)

A: No, we let her in.

Q: One quick question: Where is Starscream headed in the movie's final scene?

A: No comment.

Q: Sorry just had to pop my opinion in here. I actully would have prefered it if Bumblebee died. The simple reason being that I'd actully care about them. Jazz I never got a chance to know so his death ment nothing to me. and Actully Ironhide, and Ratchet ment nothing to me either. I felt like none of the Transformers had any good screen time. Bumblebee was the only one I really cared about and sadly that allso means he's the only one who could of died and actully had some meaning to his death.

A: I don't disagree. But to put it bluntly, we just didn't want to kill BB or Prime, and Jazz was next in line in terms of caring.

Giantrobo 07-09-07 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by DthRdrX
Here's what Bob Orci had to say about some of the unanswered questions ....

Ok, based on the format and some of the stupid questions and vague answers I'm more confused than ever. :lol:


I thought Lennox was the one who told Him to go to the roof?

Supermallet 07-09-07 05:23 PM

The format of that, combined with many of Orci's non-answers, and many of the same questions being repeated, made that very difficult to read. I would like to point out, though, that he does confirm my theory that the laser Ratchet shoots at Bumblebee does heal his voice, but it takes until the end of the movie to do it.

Superman07 07-09-07 05:28 PM


Originally Posted by RocShemp
I believe that's the issue. Also, if I recal correctly, there was an episode of the series where Chip downloaded Prime's mind into a 5 inch floppy.


Sorry, had to get in on some of the nostalgia!

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...s/DSC_0331.jpg

fujishig 07-09-07 05:29 PM

where are his hands? :)

Superman07 07-09-07 05:35 PM


Originally Posted by fujishig
where are his hands? :)

:( I think I have one and the gun, but either way I'm not going through all that stuff to find out.

Goldberg74 07-09-07 05:39 PM

I didn't make the connection that Ironhide dropped off Lennox at the end. But I could go for it if Ironhide decided to be his ride. :up:

fujishig 07-09-07 05:49 PM

Yeah, basically the answers from Orci were:
1. the hacker subplot was not superfluous, but was put in as a way to introduce concepts to non-TF fans (?)
2. The "mistakes" of Brawl/Devastator naming problems and Barricade disappearing are not mistakes, but "easter eggs" for the next movie. Really?
3. The autobots, even though none of them can fly, were going to lay cover fire for the helicopter from the three Decepticons who could fly
4. Jazz should have been more fleshed out as a character, and they let Lindsay Lohan into his trailer.

RocShemp 07-09-07 09:09 PM

That Prime missing his hands reminds me of one of the two Prime figures my cousin had. His parents bought him a second Prime shortly after he lost the hands. I never had a G1 Prime figure. :(

Yeah, Orci's answers were typical non-answers. I'm sure some was kept vague out of plot necessity but I'm sure most was just sweeping mistakes under the rug.

If they wanted to keep Barricade's fate unclear, all they had to do was cut out and/or digitally remove any footage of him from the freeway chase. Also, they had the cut Prime's looking around moment immediately after Bonecrusher's head hit the ground.

The only explanation I can see for the Devastator/Brawl thing is that Devestator is a separate consciousness that manifests itself when all Constructicons unite their minds (and bodies) that can project itself and control lesser Decepticons. Of course, all such notions are moot when you realize that Bonecrusher was on Earth. Unless he was there as a beacon of sorts to aid the Devastator group mind in controlling Brawl. Okay, now I'm definitely talking through my ass... :(

Mopower 07-09-07 10:49 PM

If I had a construction company I'd paint all my vehicles with green and purple color schemes.

maingon 07-10-07 12:22 AM


Originally Posted by RocShemp
Any word as to whether Steve Jablonsky's score will get released? The more I watch the movie, the more I dig the score. Yes, the military theme is derivative of previous Bay film scores but it's a lot of fun. And my favourite theme is the eerie Decepticon theme. I also can't get out of my head the Autobot's arrival theme. It's a shame they've thus far only release a crappy album and not the score.

i want the score too, The album out know is crappy, I loved the autobots arrival them too.

DthRdrX 07-10-07 12:30 AM


Originally Posted by Mopower
If I had a construction company I'd paint all my vehicles with green and purple color schemes.

Damn awesome idea!

As for the score, I heard hint of the cartoon's random battle music embedded throughout the movie.

Superman07 07-10-07 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by DthRdrX
As for the score, I heard hint of the cartoon's random battle music embedded throughout the movie.

Really?! I missed that one then. :( What scenes had that?

I was hoping to get a small old theme motif introduced somewhere, but I never heard it.

raven56706 07-10-07 06:45 AM

damn i want the score

Mr. Cinema 07-10-07 07:54 AM

How many times was the cartoon transform sound featured in the movie? I heard it when Blackout transformed at the beginning. I think I only heard it one more time towards the end, but can't remember who was transforming.

Superman07 07-10-07 07:56 AM

Score info:

"Steve Jablonsky has scored a few Michael Bay projects, including The Island. Transformers should be his breakthrough work. There are six central themes, and a score album is being put together."

"Transformers will hit theaters on July 4, 2007. A song soundtrack will be released by Warner Brothers Records on June 26, 2007, and a score album is in the works."

Stu 17 07-10-07 08:26 AM

i just started watching some G1 Transformers episodes again.

I'm noticing more and more how characters are colored wrong, or the wrong voice is heard when one speaks, or how they transform differently, or how characters who are in the battle at the start aren't standing there at the end.

It seems to me that all these "problems" that people have with Barricade disappearing and Brawl's name being wrong really aren't problems. Michael Bay was just sticking to the G1 Transformers saga. Just like the fans wanted.

:)

Supermallet 07-10-07 08:31 AM


Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
How many times was the cartoon transform sound featured in the movie? I heard it when Blackout transformed at the beginning. I think I only heard it one more time towards the end, but can't remember who was transforming.

I definitely remember it when Blackout transformed and hearing it when the autobots are first transforming. They might have had some of it when Barricade first transforms as well.

Doc MacGyver 07-10-07 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by RocShemp
If they wanted to keep Barricade's fate unclear, all they had to do was cut out and/or digitally remove any footage of him from the freeway chase. Also, they had the cut Prime's looking around moment immediately after Bonecrusher's head hit the ground.

I think people are reading too much into the Prime look. I never gave it a second thought. I mean the guy had just taken a huge hit from a massive Decepticon that launched them both off the highway and down what looked like a hundred foot fall, then onto a pretty intense hand-to-hand battle. Isn't it possible that Prime was just getting his bearings... looking around to see where he now found himself, and if he could locate the convoy he was just a part of? If I had just gone through that ordeal, I'd need a moment to orient myself, as well (Plus it was a badass look).



Originally Posted by RocShemp
The only explanation I can see for the Devastator/Brawl thing is that Devestator is a separate consciousness that manifests itself when all Constructicons unite their minds (and bodies) that can project itself and control lesser Decepticons. Of course, all such notions are moot when you realize that Bonecrusher was on Earth. Unless he was there as a beacon of sorts to aid the Devastator group mind in controlling Brawl. Okay, now I'm definitely talking through my ass... :(

Yeah, you are. But no worries, we all do it... what's the alternative, admit that there are glaring gaps and dropped plot threads in the genre films we love? :shrug:

This whole Devastator/Brawl/Disappearing Barricade thing is fast becoming a scenario of "How did Khan recognize Chekov?" proportions.



Originally Posted by Mopower
If I had a construction company I'd paint all my vehicles with green and purple color schemes.

I now want a construction company.



Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
How many times was the cartoon transform sound featured in the movie? I heard it when Blackout transformed at the beginning. I think I only heard it one more time towards the end, but can't remember who was transforming.


It was peppered throughout, but in addition to the Blackout transformation, it could most clearly be heard when Kanish used the Allspark's radiation to turn the Nokia into a little ninja bugger.


-Doc

devilshalo 07-10-07 09:26 AM

I really enjoyed this movie. This is what a summer flick is supposed to be. I did feel the length of the movie tho (of course it didn't help that our show started 30 minutes late). A couple of minor annoyances, mainly with Bay's camera work. I didn't particularly care for the Bad Boys 2 movement in the old vault and some of the overuse of his flash cuts.

Altimus Prime 07-10-07 10:17 AM


Originally Posted by Doc MacGyver
I think people are reading too much into the Prime look. I never gave it a second thought. I mean the guy had just taken a huge hit from a massive contructacon that launched them both off the highway and down what looked like a hundred foot fall, then onto a pretty intense hand-to-hand battle. Isn't it possible that Prime was just getting his bearings... looking around to see where he now found himself, and if he could locate the convoy he was just a part of? If I had just gone through that ordeal, I'd need a moment to orient myself, as well (Plus it was a badass look).

Note the bolded word - do you mean constructicon? If so, Bonecrusher wouldn't count as a constructicon. He's not a construction vehicle.

Brawl/Devastator also was not a construction vehicle.

Unless they're going to change the very nature of what a "constructicon" is.


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