Ah, or people that share the same love of the film would read the same 600 posts too, and realize someone already mentioned they love the film too. I think it's perfectly fair for similair criticisms to come back up with the DVD release, especially when the discussion seems to be coming from some new people.

Plus, the discussion about crystals is new and interesting to me, which i don't think was discussed as heavily prior

Kryptonian society used the crystal technology throughout their society. It stores data, creates structures, and so much more. IIRC, the Crystal Tech was created for the '78 film but even now they've added it to the Comic book. Last year there was an issue where Lex created an ancient Kryptonian warship with crystals. The ship was even connected to his mind.


Yeah we know this. let's not forget he knew where to go to find Superman's crystals. He had some knowledge of the technology and more importantly...he had knowledge of the "crystal based learning machine" from Superman II. Remember the scene with Lex talking to Superman's Kryptonian Mother? He asked her questions and and she answered them.

I know this fact gets "blurred" in the films but Lex has a brilliant mind. He's not simply some whacky villain.

Ok guys, you've convinced me to give it another viewing at some point- at least in regards to some of my criticisms it looks like I may be barking up the wrong tree.
I've dreaded a second viewing of this though, because there are some things that are difficult for me to get around (age of the leads, dialouge and "beat" swipes, etc)

Y'know, i didn't go into this movie gunning to find reasons to rip it apart.
I had respect for Singer from the first two X-movies. I was happy to hear he got the job here. Even when I heard a rumour about the kid, my inital reaction was a groan, but then I gave Singer the benefit of the doubt and put myself into a frame of mind where I could see how this could be an interesting complication- how it could mean something.

sadly, I didn't think it amounted to much at all. I didn't think the character of Superman/Clark/Kal-el had undergone a substantial , transformative change by the end of the film. I could just as easily see him taking off again for another 5 years if a good enough excuse arose- the film supplies him with enough ready made rationalizations to do that- prime being "Thankfully Richard will be a good father to him..."

but, anyways- I will try to sit down with an open mind next time.
Didn't work for me with King Kong, but I'll give it a shot once the local Hollywood video gets an HD copy in.

the point about continuity with the second film is that Singer wants you to accept some things as being direct continuity-wise, while hoping that you will ignore other aspects that are inconvienent to his story.

A little like Lucas in that, rather than trying to hew to what has been established, he just ignores precedent and goes off on his own new tangents.

if there was direct continuity with 2, then Lex should be locked up and no amount of appeal (no matter how much money was behind it) would reduce that sentence- Lets not forget he escaped from a Federal prision where he was serving time for a major terrorist attempt. Once he was in custody again, it is doubtful that would have been looked at favorably.

ugh, let this thread and the stupid movie it is about die!

Ok, fair enough. I'm not saying this movie was perfect. Some things you just gotta ignore...just like one has to do in Lucas Movies.

I guess I just viewed his getting out of prison by using the widow as typical of Lex's genius. It was yet another way Lex fooled people to get what he needs.

now I have to go watch 2 again, as I don't remember this
I know he was in the fortress with everyone, and that's how he knew about it in Returns, but I don't remember anyone other than superman interacting with the holograms

Huh!?

I think it was after he escaped from Prison. He and Miss Tesbaucher(sp?) traveled in the snow and arrived at the Fortress. Lex found the crystals and tried different ones until he eventually ended up with Kal's Mother. He asked her questions and the hologram responded.

IIRC, they didn't want to use any of the Marlon Brando footage because the Salkinds didn't want to pay him for work on Superman 2, so they ended up using Susannah York for the dialogue between Lex and someone from Krypton (Lara).

OK just got back from seeing in the theater. I thought it was really good.

But Soul Plane is the better film.

The irony!

Indeed

So I just saw this last night. I've been waiting to see it since it came out but all my friends went to see it in the theater without me so I had to wait for the DVD. And I know this thread should die, but I felt so compelled to write my brief review.

HATED IT!

God - this movie sucked balls on so many levels. I got so bored I started putting my slingbox together and I fast forwarded the last 20 minutes.

It was so disappointing. The back story with superman as a kid was one of my favorites in the original - almost no where to be found. I was totally confused the first 20 minutes trying to figure out where Superman was, had been, what time we were in, what happened to Lex Luthor - etc... Maybe they were going for that but it really detracted from the movie for me. Then - Lois Lane is almost married and has a kid??? WTF??? That's part of the allure of the originals - the constant hiding and trying to figure it out. The plot was ridiculously stupid - what was Kal Penn doing in this movie? I could go on - I'm sure it's all been said (I didn't read through 39 pages) - but man, I thought it was a big piece of crap and I want my 2.5 hours back.

^ So you would have preferred a remake, then? I like how it moved the mythos along. The whole Superman/Lois/Clark triangle has been done to death and is pretty boring now.

and yet, the idea of bringing in a cute kid to make the material 'new' again, is as old a cliche as the last 40 years of network sitcoms. Every time a TV comedy adds a little rascal to the cast you know they are getting desperate.
Appears to me the same case here.

I mostly agree with you there, Paul. However, I am interested to see which direction it takes the sequel. I think it could lend itself to some interesting plot choices and don't see it as an entirely bad choice for the first film in a new series. Could you imagine the outrage if they tried to drop that little bomb on us in Supes V.2 Part 2?

I like to believe that an outrageous plot twist can be acceptable as long as it grows organically out of the material.
Usually an idea is never truly awful in and of itself, it just comes down to how well it's used-and if the material has laid a proper foundation for the twist to be something that seems substantial and doesn't elicit just a shoulder shrug from the viewer.

Erm, that was all explained in the text preface.

Posting it here since the original sequel thread is already closed and I don't think it fits in the Man of Steel pre-release discussion thread. Anyway, skip to about 2 hrs and 30 mins of this podcast to hear one of the insiders of the Returns production--the guy who produced the behind the scenes doc "Requiem for Krypton", actually--spill the beans on what the sequel's storyline would have been had they been given a chance. I found it very interesting and I think it would've been a nice place for the story to go and the character to evolve in:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/k9Np8mWnu4w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Still, Soul Plane is the better film.

Meh. Sounds as boring as Superman Returns. Plus - More of Superman moping around.

I think even The Man of Steel is better than Soul Plane. That's how bad Soul Plane was.

Wow. Maybe the actual script would have been better but the way he tells it, it sounds like they would have made Brainiac boring.