It's been a while since I posted, but I just had to add another vote as one who thought this this movie was way over rated by the movie dorks when released theatrically. I was about to take my 12 year old nephew to see it, but a couple of the reviews I read made me think twice so I stayed away, and am glad I did. Kevin Spacey now joins the likes of Leonardo DeCaprio (spelling?) as the most over rated actor working in Hollywood today. The guy hasn't done a decent performance since American Beauty and I've been a big fan of his for most of his work in the 90's. Like so many actors, once they make it big, they stop acting and just over act like Nicholsen and DeNiro. What happened to your subtlety Kevin?

Singer should have stuck with the X-Men series. The first 2 I enjoyed quite a bit, but Superman Returns was boring. It's not a terrible movie like some else compared to the latest Star Wars crap fests, but not very good either.

Lois Lane... uhhmmm... I am at a loss for words how bad of an actress she is. She might actually be worse than Katie Holmes in Batman Begins, its a toss up for me. (nit pick - I also think she's kind of ugly, the forehead)

I could go on and on about the plot as well...

Eh, there's a difference between seeing Lex Luthor again for the 4th time in the franchise versus the Joker for the second time. Not to mention Joker is going to be re-invented for the rebooted series while we see the same Luthor we saw in the first two movies.

Of course, maybe if they gave Lex something actually interesting to do in Returns...

Has anyone considered comparing Superman Returns to Batman Begins yet? 'Cause that would be so clever and original, not to mention totally valid logically.

Actually, a lot of people have. If you actually spent the time reading this thread you'll find countless instances of comparison between these two franchise-rejuvenating films.

This is a little review I wrote not to long after the film came out. I'm a lifelong Superman fan and quite frankly, just about everything I've ever wanted in a Superman film was delivered in Superman Returns. I can't wait for the sequel in 2009.

Superman Returns is about the return of the world's most recognizeable and original superhero to the silver screen and to the fictious Metropolis in the film. It's also about how the media plays into tragic events, how the world changes in the blink of an eye, how to deal with the ramifications of leaving your home, and help the world as a whole in the process.

Superman returns to earth after having left in search of others like him to find that the world is not the way he left it. A quick glance at the news on television is enough to upset him in ways that are nearly incomprehensible. He returns to a world that as quite simply, forgotten about him and what he stood for. Radical terrorists kill innocent people on a daily basis. Natural disasters are seemingly out of control. The world as he knew it is nearly gone. Is he strong enough to help people remember about truth and justice? Can he do the unthinkable and still live and thrive in a world such as this, that's perhaps nearing the brink of destruction? How can he help? The film poses this question and answers it with a thoughtful message of hope and love because Superman is all about optimism.

After Superman makes his first public appearance after arriving on earth again, he's not greeted with disgruntled people asking where he went or why he left us. He's greeted with adoring love and gratification for helping. Had Superman not been there to save the shuttle, thousands of people would have died. Everyone instantly realizes this. It's not a matter of thinking about and believing it, it's just a simple fact.

When Superman is thrust back into the spotlight after saving the shuttle, he's all over the news worldwide. The media attention if focused squarely on him. But Superman of course is not concerned with this and still feels like an outsider and very much isolated and alone. Lex Luthor however, embraces his celebrity and will do anything to make it larger and more intense, which includes creating a new continent to show the people of earth what he is capable of and continue to inflate his already gargantuan ego.

Perry White is a great editor-in-chief, there's no doubt about that. But much like the media of today, he goes after the story that sells papers, which leads to creating and promoting sensationalism as opposed to reporting the the truth. Doing so causes ramifications that he might not be aware of. By pointing out clearly that "the story is Superman, not the power outage" and that "Lex Luthor is old news" he creates an atmosphere that goes against what the media is supposed to report; the truth in whatever form it arrives in. Giving into sensationalism is something that's become common among the media of today and it turns out that even Perry White is now apart of it. He goes for the larger story that's bound to sell more newspapers as opposed to the story that requires actual reporting, investigating, and uncovering the truth.

Although it's hard to blame him for wanting to sell more papers, thus keeping the Planet in business considering how tough the market is with so many people getting the news online. He has to sell newspapers or hundreds of people are out of a job and everything he believes in as a reporter is flushed down the toilet. So while he does have a reasoning and rationalization for sensationalizing an event, at the end of the day he's in charge of the paper and he chose the path that he set himself and indeed much of the earth down.

The film shows us that our society's obsession over media and celebrity is destructive to traditional values. It promotes an unhealthy obsession with celebrity's wherein people dedicate much of their time and energy into it that they forget about the things that really matter; family, love, and selflessness. These are represented by Lois, Richard, and Jason. They're a very traditional family the best sense of the phrase.

Earlier in the film, Lois endangers her child so that she can go on the boat in the pursuit of the story of a lifetime. She endangers her own child for something as petty as a newspaper story. When Superman saves the family (values) from quite literally drowning under the ego of Lex Luthor he realizes that his purpose is to instill and promote into others the simple values and in turn inspire others to do the same. Superman's act of heroism in saving the family ends up inspiring Lois to turn the plane around in a selfless act of heroism to save the one person who can in turn save the rest of the world. Her character comes full circle and you now see how Superman's direct effect on the people he helps. He's inspired Lois to be a better person through his acts, which will spread from her helping others and being a more selfless person. Unlike the one dimensional idealogy of the celebrity, inspiration spreads and filters through seperate sources to create a better enviroment for all.

Superman represents the best in all of us and when we look up to him, we look up to what we could and should be. That's the power of Superman; to inspire the best in all of us to be kind decent people and treat eachother in such a way. If we all had a little bit of Superman in us, the world would be a better place. And I think that's the goal of the film; to make people realize this simple truth. All one has to do is watch the sequence after Superman has been hospitalized. Seeing literally a million or so people lined up outside the hospital waiting for news of their savior who just saved most of the world and billions of people in the process gets the point of why we need Superman in the first place. Not just to save us when we need it, but to inspire us to be the people that we know we can be. Unlike the superficiality that occurs when a celebrity passes away, the heartfelt mourning over Superman displayed by the people outside the hospital shows that they are more likely to be inspired by the acts and heroism of Superman and do as much as they can do better themselves and the enviroment around them. By being a force for good and inspiring others to do good, possibly uniting people in ways that had previously been forgotten, Superman achieves his goal in making people remember that truth and justice are not ideals to toss aside, but that they are important values that is in the best interest of everyone no matter where you come from.

On a more personal note, the film affected probably more than any other with its heartfelt and soulful spirit. Superman, at his core, is alone, he has been for nearly his entire career. He doesn't have sidekicks like Batman, nor a friend that he can truly talk to, it's always a one man show. Singer though, does something bold; he gives Superman a family and this is why I respect this film so much. The best Superman stories always deal with the things that he couldn't have, a son, a wife, his birth parents and themes and ideas that are instantly relatable. The best stories always deal with Superman's psyche in one way or another and Singer completely knows this. There's a moment at the end that just completely tore me up. Seeing this character I'd spent most of my life with, finally and truly happy, with people who care about and love him for who he truly is, and seeing that because of a past love he now finally has that thing he was searching for out in space for all those years; a home.

I will do a compare and contrast between Superman Returns and Batman Begins:

1. Both long movies, Superman Returns was boring, while Batman Begins was exciting.
2. The acting in Superman Returns was dull and zombie-like, while in Batman Returns, the acting was intense and exciting.
3. Although both movies didn't have so much chemistry between the guy and the girl, there was more chemistry between Bale and Holmes than with Routh and Bosworth.
4. Superman Returns did not have one kick-ass villain, while Batman Returns had two kick-ass villains.
5. The musical score was only good at the beginning and end credits during Superman Returns, while the musical score was good through out all of Batman Begins.
6. Superman Returns had a lousy story and no action, while Batman Begins had a good story and a lot of action.
7. The only good scenes in Superman Returns had a CGI influence. Batman Begins had tons of exciting scenes without the use of CGI.
8. The chances of seeing a new villain in the sequel to Superman Returns is slim (it's gonna probably be only Lex again), while in the sequel to Batman Begins, they already chose a different villain (Joker).

Yeah, because we've never seen the Joker in a live-action film before, right?

And chances are Brainiac is going to be the villain in the next Superman, while Lex will likely have a smaller role, ala Superman II. Singer's already mentioned that the next film will feature an alien threat, which could be a multitude of different characters, but I think Brainiac is the best and safest bet.

The rest of your "complaints" seem rather perfunctory. That and you keep calling Batman Begins "Batman Returns".

PS - I love both Superman Returns and Batman Begins. Both are about even in terms of quality, but I'm a bigger Superman fan than Batman fan, so Superman Returns affected me more. I think the acting, writing, score, editing, directing, etc. was on about the same level for both films. For my money, both films represent the best this genre has to offer.

Barbarian King,
I wish I could have enjoyed Superman "Begins" as much as you. I thought I would enjoy it more on DVD on my sofa, but I nodded off again as I did in the theater.

Concerning lonliness, Batman and Superman are pretty equal. Both characters have had sidekicks and no sidekicks through out their history in book/film. Both characters have had conflict with female relationships as well.

I hope I will be more surprised with the Superman sequel. It would be nice if Singer used Darkseid as the villain and have an Apokolips storyline. If they just followed an episode used in the Justice League, Darkseid and Brainiac teamed up to trick Superman.

Agreed. And for the love of God, can we please call a moratorium on any further comparisons. Two different films, stories, directors, visions, etc. Both just happened to kick start two dead franchises. One just happened to be older than the other.

Oh, a sarcasm detector, that's a REAL useful invention!

I watched this last night and shut it off when Superman, who is supposed to become useless when near kryptonite, is somehow able to fly under an island made of it and fly it up into space. I don't have any tolerance for this type of horrible plot holes, wheather I like Superman or not. It's a freakin' island of Kryptonite! He's not supposed to be able to flu worth shit around it... he freakin' throws that shit into space! WTF?
And shame on anyone who doesn't think this is some horrible writing to resolve an otherwise excellent plan by the Lex.

He burrowed down so that there was a layer or rock protecting him, it doesn't start to affect him until it grows through the rock.

Matter of opinion/bias. To each their own. I have yet to watch my Batman Begins DVD while I think I've watched Returns at least twice since it came out.

We'll agree to disagree. I don't think there was anything "dull" or "zombie-like" when Luthor was kicking Superman's ass all over New Krypton.

Again, matter of opinion/bias.

While I'll give you the 2 vs 1, I wouldn't necessarily qualify either Cillian's or Liam's characters as "kick-ass". But again, to each their own.

Wouldn't recognize Batman Begins' score if you played it in front of me right now, whereas "How Could You Leave Us?" and "Not Like the Train Set"-- two of Ottman's original, non-Williams-derived work for Returns is easily recognizable IMO. I thought it wasn't on par when I initially heard it but within the context of the movie, I think it was perfect.

They're different stories at different timelines in the character's saga. One's a retelling of the origin and the other's a pseudo-continuation of the original films. And I point you to the Airplane rescue scene and Saving the World Yet Again scene in SR for the action.

Different characters. One's "earth based", one's SUPER. When you can show me how Bats can save a freaking airplane streaking towards earth without the use of CGI, then I'll concede your point.

I don't see how this makes either movie better than the other. I'm there at opening night for both regardless who the villain is. I go to see the SUPERHERO, not the villain.

With all that said, someone with the name 'Kal-El' will more than likely prefer Superman Returns as opposed to Batman Begins, thus negating any argument, right?

Hmmm. that's pretty lame. So a few feet of rock is enough to block a whole fucking island of kryptonite?
Also how come he struggles to stop a jet, but can lift a whole continent-sized kryptonite island after getting his ass kicked. Am I the only-one not biting on this stuff. From now on he can just solve any problem by throwing it into space. Kryptonite... just lift the earth below with a a foot of rock and throw it into space. If he can do that then why build up the climax. And more importnanly why the hell didn't he just do that in the first place. I guess intelegence is not one of his super powers.

I'm not gonna deny that.

First of all, it wasn't a whole island of "fucking" kryptonite. The kryptonite was buried in the rock. And how come he struggles to stop a jet? Hmmm, maybe because it's plummeting towards earth!? Just a guess.

see my topic on the overuse/silliness/camp/repetiveness of the use of Kryptnonite in Superman movies at:
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...d.php?t=254761

I'm curious, did anyone not like Batman Begins? It seems like there is more positiveness about Batman Begins than Superman Returns. With Superman Returns, it seems like people either loved it or hated it....

4th? 2nd?

Both characters have decades-long histories well before the films. They are as iconic as the heroes they hate.

And while I haven't read the DARK KNIGHT script, I seriously doubt the "re-invented" Joker is going to be all that different. Maybe make-up design, but I'm pretty sure he'll still be deranged and want Batman's head on a platter.

IMO, I thought Spacey's performance was very different from Hackman's. It wasn't the same Luthor to me. This was a meaner Lex.

It also wasn't true Kryptonite...it was that hybrid Kryptonite generated from the crystal. Explains why Superman didn't immediately fall to the ground in the fetal position when he landed on it, etc. It's a much weakened version.

Besides, the entire message of the final action sequence is of Superman making a Christ-like sacrifice. He knows he may not come back alive (hence the very touching "goodbye" to Lois), and why he goes up to supercharge in the sun's rays. The final act is accomplished through sheer will power to save the planet, at the cost of his own life, if need be. It's very moving when you look at it in that light, at least to me.

the crystal grows based on what it's surrounded by... it was put in a tube of kryptonite. (yes, fucking kryptonite) It's an island of Kryptonite... When he was standing on it it made him weak. So being near it weakens him. So why not when he's picking up the whole thing? Ans it's not because he was protected by a layer of Earth... the green stuff was showing through...
Poor ending if you ask me... horrible way to end a perfectly decent evel plot.

Catching a small jet falling to earth or throwing a small continent embedded into the Earth's crust. I'm going to think the latter is going to be just a bit heavier.

Look back on my post, and you'll find that you could do with one as well

I still think this scene is a pretty big plothole, but I kind of like this explanation.

FWIW, I felt Kevin Spacey was the best part of the movie, and an adequate replacement for Gene Hackman. I didn't like Kate Bosworth because I saw zero chemistry between her and Brandon Routh. Their screen presence is not even in the same galaxy as Margot Kidder and Christopher Reeve. But with people pointing out she was too young to have already mothered a child and won a Pulitzer, I can now add that as a secondary reason why she was miscast.

Afraid I'm in the "hated it" camp. I use that term a little loosely though. Superman I and II are two of my favorite movies. This one never came close to that, so I'm more monumentally disappointed than anything. It was certainly better than III and IV. So that's something at least. But Bryan Singer isn't going to get much praise from me just because he didn't screw it up like those other two travesties.

I love Superman 1 and 2 as well, but I think Superman 3 is certainly more entertaining than Superman Returns.

I thought Hackman was way better than Spacey, and Bosworth looks just skanky awful as a brunette. And Routh should have been in Zoolander.

Superman Returns was a rehash of Superman 1, same scenarios/situations. Batman Begins was totally different from all the previous Batman flicks.

I believe he asked why didn't Superman struggle to stop a jet. Not which was heavier. And he struggled with both.