Yeah I agree with you, they definitely do transcend. I was just trying to explain that it seems that b/c there are so many people that say they love these characters, it seems like there would be so many that read comics, but it is actually only a minute percentage that actually do love these characters enough to read their on-going story.

Too each their own, this just seems like a big case of either "being that guy" or just not getting the film.

Is there anybody that didn't like BATMAN BEGINS, but likes BATMAN(1989)?

We saw this at the IMAX at Chicago's Navy Pier. I loved it more than all the other Batman movies. This was what it was supposed to be. Now, there were a few flaws that kind of distracted from the rest of the movie:

Just saw the movie and thought it was pretty good. Like in the first movie, I think the death of Bruce's parents murderer is a major mistake. Personally, I don't think Bruce should even know who killed his parents. He was 9 years old and his entire world was shattered by some faceless criminal. ALL criminals therefore, in his mind, represent his parents killers. Once you identify and kill the murderer, and thus provide justice to Bruce, there is no real reason for him to be Batman.

I have to agree with some of the comments on the fight scenes. I wish Hollywood directors would watch some good Hong Kong action films and learn a thing or two before they film a fight scene. Too often, they don't know what they're doing and hide it in close, tight, and confusing scenes.

I liked Bale a lot and the Batmobile a whole, whole lot more than I expected.

saw it on friday and enjoyed it immensely. I reallly didn't feel that the movie dragged in the first half as some folks/reviewers have stated and I definetly didn't mind the action scenes - I thought they were well done and probably a bit more realistic then flashey over the top hong kong style action scenes (which are fantastic in their own right but I just don't think they would've worked for this film).

I certainly hope that they do a sequel to this film, although I'll admit that it would conflict with Batman a bit but hey, I'm okay with that ;)

thought all the actors did an excellent job, very well cast.

Ferris,

Yeah Im all for suspension of belief and I love good superhero movies but I wasnt expecting something like that after loving so much of the first half of the movie. I still love it as a whole though.

SaveFerris



Yet Bruce didn't not get his vengeance. The murderer was killed in a mob hit. Then Rachel's speech and double slap is especially important.

I saw this Saturday night and loved everything about it. IMO, this surpassed all the superhero movies of recent years and rivals the original Superman as being the best 'comic book' movie. Can't wait to see it again!

I'll chime in here as well, also agree with you that I thought the filmmakers/DOP needed a primer on how to shoot a fight scene - I found this to a major flaw in the film and my overall enjoyment of the film.

You would apparently argue this twice. You would apparently argue this twice. I don't particularly get all the love for Mask Of The Phantasm, but I haven't exactly seen it in awhile. I used to own it, then sold it, then rebought it during a DDD sale. It remains sealed. I like and own the animated series, but maybe because I was never into comics, it was the first Batman movie that really sparked my interest in the character. I've read a lot of older comics, but not much of the more recent stuff. I believe I have Year One somewhere, but I don't remember being incredibly impressed. Maybe because it got to me too late. I don't know. I'll most likely revisit it once I come across it again, along with Mask Of The Phantasm, but right now, I'm part of the minority that never thought it was the best Batman movie made. My declining interest in animation might be part of the reason it didn't hit me at the point in which I saw it. Regardless, I still love the '89 Batman and I consider it a serious adaptation in comparison to the 60's show and movie. It might not have gotten all the aspects of Bat-History right (not that I'd know), but I also don't think it was made as a campy parody either. That's all I meant, if that makes any sense.

K

Even though I love Begins, I agree completely. Batman is not a campy parody. Is the Joker played by Nicholson a bit campy? Of course, but then that is the Joker I've always known. Since when has the Joker ever been a deadly serious character, with no campiness whatsoever. The mere personality of the Joker, demented, laughing hysterically, is campy by it's nature.

89s Batman wasn't campy nor serious - it found a solid middle ground. Batman Returns was a little campier, but still not THAT much so (though Penguin...)

Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, on the other hand, went back to the old school camp - Batman and Robin more so.

Batman Begins is the first to try and make it seem "real world" and yeah, was a total fanboy flick.

What I find interesting (and cool) is that the producers of Mask Of The Phantasm (Benjamin Melinker and Michael E. Uslan) co-produced Batman Begins.

I didn't care for Begins, but I still love Batman, and even more so Batman Returns, which is still my favorite in the series.

I know it is often criticized for Batman's almost supporting role, but Michelle Pfieffer as Catwoman is probably the most interesting and entertaining character in the series (sorry, Jack). Some of the most compelling Batman stories over the years are ones where he has been a side character (the animated series had many episodes that focused on the villains, The Long Halloween was split between Batman, Gordon and Dent), so I don't see any reason to knock the movie for him not being the only focal point. We had already learned alot about Bruce in 89's Batman, so exploring his past again would have been redundant.

Burton's darker, more violent and somewhat satirical tone also more closely matched the books, especially Dark Knight Returns, than the more humorous first film. The film is also given a slicker, renewed Gotham that has obviously been benefitting from Batman's aid since his appearance in the first film. Burton wisely set the film in an indistinct time period that mixes various eras of cars, fashions and architecture to give Gotham its timeless, yet still garish and grim, look.

The disappearance of the pop soundtrack also helped to set the more timeless feel as Burton falls back on relying on Danny Elfman's score to set the musical mood. Elfman sets up distinctive themes for each character, a trend that is noticeably missing from the three more recent films. The score for Forever (later recycled nearly completely for Batman and Robin) felt like stock tracks that might have been made for a Batman video game and never really fit the films. Begins has a completely indistinct score that could have easily been dropped into a Jerry Bruckheimer film without any notice.

Just some of my thoughts on the Batman series.

Well, yeah, I agree, but at its core, it's still a comic book movie, so some suspension of belief has to be maintained.



L8r

I find that statement pretty insulting. I doesn't take a nerd or super-fan to enjoy this movie. You gave your reasons why you don't like the movie, I don't agree, but let's leave the name calling out.

Anyway.......

I LOVED this movie. I love when a film exceeds my expectations. I remember seeing the new bat signal, the new batmobile and sincerely doubting I would like this new vision. I was wrong...I like being proved wrong.

I think what I enjoyed most is the deconstructing of the Batman legend. It always took a little more suspension of disbelief when it came to Batman, because he was this "regular" guy. This movie made sense, it made me fully understand why Bruce became Batman, how he became Batman, how he stayed alive as Batman, how he did his job as Batman - this movie completely sold me on the premise where as the others I just accepted and an enjoyed the ride.

I loved the actors. I loved the grittiness, no polish look to everything. I understand the Batmobile now, no way could we have this sleek looking lamborghini-of-the-future in this tale. I get it now, I loved it. Can't wait for the next.

There's room in the comic-to-movie adaptation for all kinds of views. Not taking anything away from Burton's visions, which I loved, but this one was grand (we all know how Schumacher stunk up the joint).

Did he give that kid his night-vision goggles?

It's the Hong Kong style that Nolan consciously wanted to avoid. I know I made a post about this already but he makes a direct comment about this 9 minutes into an interview found here ( http://kcrw.org/show/tt ).

I know some peeps already mentioned that maybe he just sucks at shooting action, and that may very well be in the case for all I know. But it sounds like the style was intentional from the interview.

They were smart enough to rescue it with the Rachel speech but c'mon Joe Chill was the literal object of Bruce's anger/fury. Once he's eliminated, regardless of who eliminated him, Bruce would be much less angry. Despite the fact that idea of a man running around dressed like a giant bat seeking vengence on criminals is crazy in and of itself, it can be accepted in the comic book realm. The fact that he does this when vengence has been served makes the character a lunatic in my book. I'll just conveniently forget the Joe Chill sequence. :)

Ok now that i have a minute...

Here are my thoughts

Yes, he gave the kid his night-vision/periscope thingy.

thats kind of dumb... :(

I didn't want to see Hong Kong wire fu or anything, I just want to be able tell what was going on in the scene. Kung fu directors or cinematographers seem able to frame a shot to acheive this. American directors frequently use close shots and editing as a crutch because they just don't know what they're doing. We've all seen films where there are three or more cuts just for throwing 1 punch. Horrible.

In spite of my earlier criticisms of the film, I'm going to see this again this week...partly just to do my part to support it. I want to see it again too, but moreso, I would hate for WB to abandon this serious take for something more "accessable" because they were disappointed in the box office take.

So I take one for the team. Please do the same, and send your friends.