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WAR OF THE WORLDS thread... (merged)

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WAR OF THE WORLDS thread... (merged)

Old 07-05-05, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by runnersdialzero
Sorry, I know people are frustrated because they aren't getting the answers they derserve.
I don't think anyone "deserves" those answers. The movie was about Ray and his family and the invasion was shown thru their eyes. We knew what they knew that was it. I don't know why some people can't handle that. If they just aren't smart enough or if they wanted an ID4 part 2.
Old 07-05-05, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
I don't think anyone "deserves" those answers. The movie was about Ray and his family and the invasion was shown thru their eyes. We knew what they knew that was it. I don't know why some people can't handle that. If they just aren't smart enough or if they wanted an ID4 part 2.
Actually...THAT is exactly what I felt I got.
Old 07-05-05, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
I don't think anyone "deserves" those answers. The movie was about Ray and his family and the invasion was shown thru their eyes. We knew what they knew that was it. I don't know why some people can't handle that. If they just aren't smart enough or if they wanted an ID4 part 2.
I was being mostly sarcastic in that sentence. I think people were expecting ID4 2.

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Old 07-05-05, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
flixtime, I agree with many of your criticisms of the film.

Spoiler:
I don't care if a film has a happy ending or not, but the bringing back of the son was poor because it was out of left field and felt "tacked on."


However, I disagree with your assessment that this is "cooking cutter" filmmaking. It's anything but.
Spoiler:
"Tacked on"
as you say is a good description (should have said it myself) and yet still I took it as even worse than yet, it was soooo
Spoiler:
"out of left field"
that it was an egregious affront to me as a viewer -
Spoiler:
I felt swindled.
Among other things,
Spoiler:
the "happy ending" stripped the film of the "popcorn poignancy" found in films such as "Deep Impact", "Armageddon" (Bruce Willis dying), and "ID4" (Randy Quaid's sacrifice).

To expand a little on my personal view of the film in regards to my "cookie-cutter" comment, I just feel Spielberg was far too late to the table to gain much praise from me for the associations in this film to 9/11. Even putting aside whatever personal experiences I might have with that day, the 2002 Brit zombie film had already exposed me to 9/11 imagery in film. They used the same "missing loved ones billboard" imagery in that film that was duplicated here in 2005. If anything, to me personally, the 9/11 associations in this film came closer to being "exploitative" (example: Japan's "Battle Royale 2" (2003)) than profound (perhaps Spike Lee's "25th Hour" (2002)). Anyway, I don't mean to come across as saying either take on the film is right or wrong, I just wanted to shed a little light on why I felt like I did.
Old 07-05-05, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
I didn't get the whole deal with him wanting to fight. Seemed like just an excuse to get him to seperate from the rest of the family and to get that scene with Cruise having to decide which one to save.[/spoiler]
Yea. I think they came up with the scene, and then asked "how are we going to get here", and wrote backwards from there. His motives were somewhat weak. There was certianly more put into the departure scene, than the tensity leading up to it. I think Robbie just wanted some sort of immediate retailiation (kind of like the majority of the US after 9/11 ...).

Also, regarding their ages... I wouldn't say that Robbie was under 16. He just didn't have a driver's license. Actually, it would be pretty akward if he were meant to be 15 ... he looked at least 18 as it was. But I think if they actually gave him an age, it would be 17.

I'm suprised that not many people are mentioning the composition of each shot. Even if you didn't like the movie, you must admit that the art direction and cinematography is most-excellent. It reminded me of Cowboy Bebop - how every frame is filled with something neat to look at. I love that.

There was a disorienting lapse, at the end, and I was like "they're in Boston already, huh?".

I like Speilberg's use of symbolism. I like how it has intelligence, and yet it's easy to spot. Like Dakota Fanning and Cruise's exchanges about the cut on her finger.

I think that the scope achieves in what we are not told. Did anyone notice that we're never told about anything beyond what Tom Cruise knows? We are not let in on the science behind the attacks. It does not try to rationalize every logistic. We hear what people say, but it's not necessarily fact - it's all speculation. I'm glad that the filmmakers weren't indulgent in trying to give the aliens motives, giving us points of view from various aspects (like in ID4, we have politics, military, scientists, blue collar workers, etc. all with a seperate story line). We don't see aliens conversing, plotting against us in spaceships. This avoided a lot of unnecessary silliness. This is the first disaster movie that worked this well on such a large scale.

There were no "get me the president" lines.
There were no "but sir, it's military procedure".
No unnecessary 'unlimited funds', unclever plot device bullshit.
No jingoistic scenes, with a character standing next to a flag.
No overzelous speeches.
No real aliens ass kicking.

It's like when my high-school teacher would tell us "less is more". Less IS more in War of the Worlds.

Last edited by Troy Stiffler; 07-05-05 at 11:22 AM.
Old 07-05-05, 11:32 AM
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First of all let me say I enjoyed watching the movie alot. It wasn't until later after I had absorbed the experience when the whole thing began to crumble. To me that's the sign of a Hollywood spectacle film. I'd recommend seeing it in the theater, but I don't think I'll be watching it a second time. It was an intense movie and the big screen and big sound amplified that, I'm not sure I would have liked it nearly as much initially even if I'd watched it on a good home theater.

Loads of spoilers ahead! I'm not going to tag them as most of this has been given away and you probably shouldn't have read this far anyway, but you have been warned.

First of all, things I liked:

1. PoV style. I always like that. The tension is increased dramatically when we only know what the character knows and in this he doesn't know much. Really upped the ante I thought.

2. Aliens doing alien things for alien reasons. I don't expect to understand why do what they do, and can't stand when some exposition character shows up dumps all the info. Vaporize everyone one minute, take time to look at family photos, drain people like a giant vampire. None if it makes any sense, and are odds are good it shouldn't.

3. Dakota Fanning's screaming. Annoyed me at first when she kept doing it, then I realized that's probably what she'd be doing at that age. In light of that, I think kids in most movies probably aren't screaming enough.


Now the much longer list of things I didn't like:

1. Earlier posters got lambasted for it, but the movie did seem to revolve around Cruises character in a way that was a little over the top. Only guy on the block that knows to swap the solenoid? Sure, I can buy that, specially in the city. The local mechanics not figuring it out is a stretch given that all day long the news has been talking about fried electric systems, but I can still buy it. Only guy in the state, though? That's a little over the top. The working cars seem to have been out of EMP range, not repaired. In a situation like that information becomes the most precious commodity out there, you got a thousand people trudging along passing dead cars, would have been nice of Cruise to say "Hey, next time we pass an Autozone, I can show you how to get these heaps running".

Of all the places for a plane to crash, it lands on his head and somehow misses his car.

It's the end of the world, a crowd of 100 or so, in what appears to be a tiny blink and you miss it town, and only two guys have guns. Gimme a break. You'd see more guns in a crowd of just me than that. I'd be walking around looking like Il Duce from Boondock Saints.

Then there's the fact that alien vaporizers can't seem to lock on to him. People lag behind him, get zapped. They pass him up, get zapped, run beside him, turn a different way, doesn't seem to matter, they all get zapped except him. The opening scene it was ok, as people did scatter, some did get away, and when you plan to kill off a population of 8 billion or so one person at a time that's to be expected. When it kept happening it got old. For instance, at the ferry scene they show them kill every single person except them, as near as I could tell from the wide shot. We're lead to believe that they survived by being ahead of everyone. Apparently Cruise is a great swimmer to pass up a ferry full of people after being pinned underwater for several seconds, then dragging an eleven year old the whole way.

Three dozen people run past the farm house. Tim Robbins only waves Cruise in.

I totallly understand that he's the main character and things just "happen" to him. However this didn't feel like a movie that was supposed to work that way. It works with Die Hard and Indiana Jones because they are the heroes and that's how it's supposed to be. In this, it seemed almost hypocritical. It's telling us he's the everyman doing what he can to save his family, but it's showing us something entirely different. He was the only one that did anything, and it was completely uneeded. Anyone could have pointed out the birds, they could easily have had the soldier plant the grenades and Cruise be the one that tried to save him(or even done nothing at all during the whole scene).

2. Sick and tired of everyone being stupid at the end of the world. I don't place much intelligence on people, but the person is usually pretty sharp. If humanity's survival instincts really were this bad, we'd have died out a very long time ago. Time and again when a warlord or nutjob shows up and starts commiting genocide, people have came up with this great plan. They scatter and hide. However when aliens invade, we like to in massive groups near large light emitting vessels sure to draw attention, to speed up the incineration process. Only thing missing was a big neon sign.

No one seems to have armed themselves either. I know it would make no difference, and so would they, but people would gear up regardless because it makes them feel safer. Crowds of thousands and no one had guns or ball bats or machetes or even any survival gear that I saw, like a backpack full of food or something. And where the hell are they going? No one knows shit about what's going on, but everyone seems to want to get somewhere that may or may not still be standing. I dunno, it just seems to me that if I'm in an alien-free zone my ass is staying right there.

Cruise is willing to kill a man with his bare hands to keep his daughter alive. Then they take a nap on the couch, 20 mins after an alien landing party was just there taking a look around. sounds pretty stupid.

3. Dumbass aliens. Yes I've seen the original movie. It sounded like a good premise to me back then when I was 8. It's rediculous now, absolutely and totally, but it was still pulled off better in the first movie that it was here. Even so, I was disappointed Spielberg didn't come up with something better. Bacteria are not exactly unique to Earth. We found it on Mars, it's suspected on several large moons. It's the basis of life from which any intelligent life form is likely derived. Even moreso a carbon based, presumably oxygen breathing life form. The idea they wouldn't know of, have, and dealt with their own bacteria is preposterous. Based on that stupid ass theory, they likely brought their own shit with them that'll probably kill us off too, right? Even more so given they were spraying some shit of their own everywhere.

When I saw them draining blood from people I thought I had the ending figured out. Here's what I suspected: Some kind of recent blood-borne illness would kill them off. Even at lightspeed or FTL, it could take months or even years for messages to pass back and forth. If they were truly prepping this millenia as we're lead to believe then I thought it might be possible for a new disease to have gotten missed between the "we're ready" and the "proceed" messages. HIV for instance has only been common 30 or so years, Hantavirus just over 10. Ebola could also have worked.

4. Lameass alien tech. Everything they could have used that we thought of they should have already had or appropriaited. I have a hard time swallowing the "no wheel" thing. A quick scan of Earth should show them about 150 trillion wheels used a variety of things. Wheels aren't important to the plot though as they didn't need them.

We have satellites that could have found people hiding in a house in seconds. FLIR mounted to helicopters or planes can see all kinds of things from hundreds of feet up. Radar, motion trackers, etc. Makes a 500 foot long extendable controllable snake-camera with awful and obvious blind spots look pretty worthless actually. I think I'd have borrowed some of our tech if I was going to eradicate a species one at a time.

5. Buried under ground? Must have been insanely deep. We've got open pit mines that go down several thousand feet. The longest vertical shaft mine goes down 3.5km, with one expect to reach 5km soon. We've drilled down as low as 15000km. Not to mention things like earthquakes, volcanoes, erosion, meteors, etc that have changed the landscape. Saying that we've never found or even noticed one is pretty hard to swallow. Just dropping them from the sky works much better, there has to be some ships are something up there that the pilots came from anyway.

6. Grenade scene lifted directly from the book The White Mountains by John Christopher, also about alien tripods. In fact, a movie based on that book would have been alot better I think.
Old 07-05-05, 11:50 AM
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thephantom, i love you.

Thank you. I needed you pages ago.
Old 07-05-05, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom

1. Earlier posters got lambasted for it, but the movie did seem to revolve around Cruises character in a way that was a little over the top. Only guy on the block that knows to swap the solenoid? Sure, I can buy that, specially in the city. The local mechanics not figuring it out is a stretch given that all day long the news has been talking about fried electric systems, but I can still buy it. Only guy in the state, though? That's a little over the top. The working cars seem to have been out of EMP range, not repaired. In a situation like that information becomes the most precious commodity out there, you got a thousand people trudging along passing dead cars, would have been nice of Cruise to say "Hey, next time we pass an Autozone, I can show you how to get these heaps running".

Of all the places for a plane to crash, it lands on his head and somehow misses his car.

It's the end of the world, a crowd of 100 or so, in what appears to be a tiny blink and you miss it town, and only two guys have guns. Gimme a break. You'd see more guns in a crowd of just me than that. I'd be walking around looking like Il Duce from Boondock Saints.

Then there's the fact that alien vaporizers can't seem to lock on to him. People lag behind him, get zapped. They pass him up, get zapped, run beside him, turn a different way, doesn't seem to matter, they all get zapped except him. The opening scene it was ok, as people did scatter, some did get away, and when you plan to kill off a population of 8 billion or so one person at a time that's to be expected. When it kept happening it got old. For instance, at the ferry scene they show them kill every single person except them, as near as I could tell from the wide shot. We're lead to believe that they survived by being ahead of everyone. Apparently Cruise is a great swimmer to pass up a ferry full of people after being pinned underwater for several seconds, then dragging an eleven year old the whole way.

2. Sick and tired of everyone being stupid at the end of the world. I don't place much intelligence on people, but the person is usually pretty sharp. If humanity's survival instincts really were this bad, we'd have died out a very long time ago. Time and again when a warlord or nutjob shows up and starts commiting genocide, people have came up with this great plan. They scatter and hide. However when aliens invade, we like to in massive groups near large light emitting vessels sure to draw attention, to speed up the incineration process. Only thing missing was a big neon sign.

3. Dumbass aliens. Yes I've seen the original movie. It sounded like a good premise to me back then when I was 8. It's rediculous now, absolutely and totally, but it was still pulled off better in the first movie that it was here. Even so, I was disappointed Spielberg didn't come up with something better. Bacteria are not exactly unique to Earth. We found it on Mars, it's suspected on several large moons. It's the basis of life from which any intelligent life form is likely derived. Even moreso a carbon based, presumably oxygen breathing life form. The idea they wouldn't know of, have, and dealt with their own bacteria is preposterous. Based on that stupid ass theory, they likely brought their own shit with them that'll probably kill us off too, right? Even more so given they were spraying some shit of their own everywhere.

When I saw them draining blood from people I thought I had the ending figured out. Here's what I suspected: Some kind of recent blood-borne illness would kill them off. Even at lightspeed or FTL, it could take months or even years for messages to pass back and forth. If they were truly prepping this millenia as we're lead to believe then I thought it might be possible for a new disease to have gotten missed between the "we're ready" and the "proceed" messages. HIV for instance has only been common 30 or so years, Hantavirus just over 10. Ebola could also have worked.

4. Lameass alien tech. Everything they could have used that we thought of they should have already had or appropriaited. I have a hard time swallowing the "no wheel" thing. A quick scan of Earth should show them about 150 trillion wheels used a variety of things. Wheels aren't important to the plot though as they didn't need them.

5. Buried under ground? Must have been insanely deep. We've got open pit mines that go down several thousand feet. The longest vertical shaft mine goes down 3.5km, with one expect to reach 5km soon. We've drilled down as low as 15000km. Not to mention things like earthquakes, volcanoes, erosion, meteors, etc that have changed the landscape. Saying that we've never found or even noticed one is pretty hard to swallow. Just dropping them from the sky works much better, there has to be some ships are something up there that the pilots came from anyway.
1. Tom Cruise was concerned about his family only. Therefore he wouldn't stop and help others. How do you know only 2 people had guns? Many could have, doesn't mean they want to get caught in a shootout that doesn't involve themselves. Once again it is from Cruise's POV. He didn't poll the crowd to see exactly how many people had guns. Sure, the rays didn't zap him, but they also didn't zap tons of people, or Cruise would have been the only living person left everywhere he went.

2. Panic and fear make people do illogical things. Do you actually think that everyone is going to do rational things if aliens were to invade?

3. and 4. They came millions of years ago (allegedly) and then left. It's not like they have had spies here the whole time. Therefore, when they were originally here, there were no humans (therefore no wheel) and none of whatever toxins killed them. Technology has created many toxins that are recent and it is certainly plausable that they could kill a species that had no previous exposure.

5. Are there a lot of mines, earthquakes, and volcanoes in the middle of Jersey?
Old 07-05-05, 12:31 PM
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Just saw WotW yesterday. GREAT effects and shots. I can't rip on the story since I haven't read the book.

My biggest complaints were:
  • Spoiler:
    the son is still alive
    at the end, so I agree with others about that bothering me and taking away from the death and destruction aspect of the film.
  • Spoiler:
    How the bacteria killed off the aliens so fast...without any full understanding to the audience what kind of bacteria and why so fast.
    I realize it would have been tough for any character in the movie to just come out and explain it, but maybe something in the narrative at the end...I don't know...just a comment.
I think most other items folks have brought up are nitpicks that don't really affect the story or plotline--like the airplane crash. It didn't have to crash at all and there would be no concern about their car still working. I think it was there to show the destruction on another level.

Not sure if I'll buy this DVD or not. Definitely not a kids movie. And as much as I want to dislike Tom Cruise, I can't fault his acting. I almost want to go out and rebuy Minority Report....I wish I hadn't sold it in the first place - DOH
Old 07-05-05, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gmal2003
Since digitalfreaknyc, iggystar, and others gave great explanations of how flawed this movie was only to be criticized for everything they said, I won't waste my time and just say I thought the movie was horrible. Worst movie I've seen so far this year. Spielberg seems to be taking films off.

Good: Saving Private Ryan, Minority Report
Bad: A.I., WotW

Hopefully this trends continues and his next effort will not suck like this one.
We had your back digital!

As a matter of fact when the movie ended, me and gmal looked at each other shook our heads, ripped the movie apart in the car on the way home and just knew our fellow Talkers would feel the same.

I got online that night and was utterly shocked with the amount of support for this movie. That morning I even told my brother about the digital bashing, that's one reason he posted.

Everything that thephantom posted was right on target. There's no explaining away these "leaps of logic" even when suspending disbelief.
Old 07-05-05, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
Then there's the fact that alien vaporizers can't seem to lock on to him. People lag behind him, get zapped. They pass him up, get zapped, run beside him, turn a different way, doesn't seem to matter, they all get zapped except him. The opening scene it was ok, as people did scatter, some did get away, and when you plan to kill off a population of 8 billion or so one person at a time that's to be expected. When it kept happening it got old.
Right, repeatedly he's hit with cremation dust from the people all around him getting hit. C'mon!

I think the bogus alien technology bothered me the most. Mainly because they spent so much time in the basement with that faulty alien probe/camera. Cross light years and that's all you've got for technology?

And in the original movie the aliens dying due to Earth's microbes/bacteria made sense in the theme of how the scientists with all of their hard work and knowledge don't know everything to defeat the threat. However, since this was not longer the focus of the movie, maybe that should have been changed (even your suggestion made sense).

Last edited by iggystar; 07-05-05 at 12:51 PM.
Old 07-05-05, 12:50 PM
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Regarding the complaint that Cruise survives everything:

I didn't have a problem with this. Many disasters and wartime situations have people who survive under unlikely circumstances. Their stories are fascinating to read, and often have a "truth is stranger than fiction" quality.

This film is about such a survivor. They could have made it about Grandpa sitting in Boston eating crumpets, but that wouldn't have been too interesting. Far more exciting to follow somebody who saw a bit of the action.
Old 07-05-05, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cdollaz
1. Tom Cruise was concerned about his family only. Therefore he wouldn't stop and help others. How do you know only 2 people had guns? Many could have, doesn't mean they want to get caught in a shootout that doesn't involve themselves. Once again it is from Cruise's POV. He didn't poll the crowd to see exactly how many people had guns. Sure, the rays didn't zap him, but they also didn't zap tons of people, or Cruise would have been the only living person left everywhere he went.
In this country the numer of shotguns and rifles is almost double that of handguns. The total number of firearms is just under one for every person, but owned by about one in five people. We see two handguns and one shotgun and about 2500+ civillians in an apocalyptic setting. There would be more guns, and more people carrying them in the open, as a security blanket at the very least. Tom Cruise grabs his for that very same reason. When guns got pulled, more guns would have gotten pulled. That's just how it works. In a crowd of 100, statistically there should have been at least 10 visable rifles and shotguns, and another 5 handguns we may not see, and that's assuming 1 in 5 guns owners left their shit at home.

Originally Posted by cdollaz
2. Panic and fear make people do illogical things. Do you actually think that everyone is going to do rational things if aliens were to invade?
Of course not. I don't expect them to remain completely stupid though, the body can't maintain it. Eventually reason comes back. Panic an fear is not we we saw with the stupid. You got 2000 people including police and army, the crowd is calmly loading on a boat going nowhere, and not one person points out that huge crowds are huge targets? I'm not buying it. We've seen real life exterminations and genocides that are virtually identical to what the aliens were doing, and people didn't do that. The whole "aliens invading" thing only rocks peoples world so long, survival takes over. Getting killed by a Nazi for being Jewish or getting killed by an alien for being human is still getting killed.

Originally Posted by cdollaz
3. and 4. They came millions of years ago (allegedly) and then left. It's not like they have had spies here the whole time. Therefore, when they were originally here, there were no humans (therefore no wheel) and none of whatever toxins killed them. Technology has created many toxins that are recent and it is certainly plausable that they could kill a species that had no previous exposure.
Millions of years ago life as we know it didn't even exist here. If they came to harvest our blood, we weren't there yet and there's no way of knowing that we would be. However there would be shit tons of other bacteria, diseases, infections, viruses and what have you, as there has been since the beginning of life on this planet. Much of that shit has died off or mutated to an unrecognizable state, and if reintroduced today would probably kill us off. Of course, everything we know about biology tells us they have thier own bacteria and thereby would have had to contend with their own much like we have ours, and would be FORCED to know about it to combat thier own infections and diseases. In otherwords, they'd know that stepping out without innoculation or a space suit would be fatal, as it will be for us should we ever set foot on another planet with life, breathable air or not.

I would hope a civilization that developed space travel millions of years ago and has managed not to collapse would have figured out how to land on other planets at some point, especially while hatching invasion plots. Humans have only been here for 65,000 years or so, and can be considered "civilized" for only about 8,000 of that. We began space travel only 60 years ago, and even we aren't stupid enough to land on a planet and take off our masks, regardless of what you see on Star Trek.

Originally Posted by cdollaz
5. Are there a lot of mines, earthquakes, and volcanoes in the middle of Jersey?
When they buried the ship there it was under 250+ feet of water. For all we know, there's been a dozen volcanoes right there, 10 glaciers have passed over, more earthquakes than you can fathom. Who's to say what could happen in millions of years.

Of course, that's your number, not mine. The movie never actually says. My estimate was 65,000 years ago, about the time humans appearred on this planet. It's all speculation of course, but if they were going to harvest us, and wanted to wait till the "fields were ripe", you'd want to bury the ships after said species you plan on eating actually exists. They of course had no idea where we'd dig our holes and what might happen in the meantime. There was a helluva lot more of the tripods than just in Jersey, odds are good we'd have found one unless they were buried so deep we couldn't possibly get that far down. I'm not going to assume that's beyond thier technology(although infrared seems to be), but what's the point? And they certainly wouldn't want use to find them, I mean imagine how embarrassing it'd be to invade a planet that can hide behind your own shielding tech, immune to your attacks, while you die of bacteria like a dumbass. All while driving around on wheeled vehicles, those rat bastards!

It adds even more unbelievability to an unbelievable film, easier to just land from the sky. This story was science fiction in 1898, but these days it's closer to science fantasy. Not so different from ID4 really.
Old 07-05-05, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by iggystar
Right, repeatedly he's hit with cremation dust from the people all around him getting hit. C'mon!

I think the bogus alien technology bothered me the most. Mainly because they spent so much time in the basement with that faulty alien probe/camera. Cross light years and that's all you've got for technology?

And in the original movie the aliens dying due to Earth's microbes/bacteria made sense in the theme of how the scientists with all of their hard work and knowledge don't know everything to defeat the threat. However, since this was not longer the focus of the movie, maybe that should have been changed (even your suggestion made sense).

Well he is the star of the movie. You want exciting things to happen to the star of the movie. And dodging death ray blasts is pretty exciting. As for the alien tech of course the aliens could have had heat sensors. Shit the aliens could have just nuked everyone or killed everyone with poison gas. But then the story would have sucked if everyone died and there were no suspenseful scenes like the basement scenes. The probe and the aliens in the basement were brought in for that reason.

And in the original movie the movie took place around the scientists. Of course it's going to show them working on a way to destroy the aliens. This WOTW took place around a family. So if there aren't any scientists in the family you aren't going to see any of them.

Finally it's a freaking alien invasion story. And some of you are complaining that it isn't realistic enough??
Old 07-05-05, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
In this country the numer of shotguns and rifles is almost double that of handguns. The total number of firearms is just under one for every person, but owned by about one in five people. We see two handguns and one shotgun and about 2500+ civillians in an apocalyptic setting. There would be more guns, and more people carrying them in the open, as a security blanket at the very least. Tom Cruise grabs his for that very same reason. When guns got pulled, more guns would have gotten pulled. That's just how it works. In a crowd of 100, statistically there should have been at least 10 visable rifles and shotguns, and another 5 handguns we may not see, and that's assuming 1 in 5 guns owners left their shit at home.



Of course not. I don't expect them to remain completely stupid though, the body can't maintain it. Eventually reason comes back. Panic an fear is not we we saw with the stupid. You got 2000 people including police and army, the crowd is calmly loading on a boat going nowhere, and not one person points out that huge crowds are huge targets? I'm not buying it. We've seen real life exterminations and genocides that are virtually identical to what the aliens were doing, and people didn't do that. The whole "aliens invading" thing only rocks peoples world so long, survival takes over. Getting killed by a Nazi for being Jewish or getting killed by an alien for being human is still getting killed.



Millions of years ago life as we know it didn't even exist here. If they came to harvest our blood, we weren't there yet and there's no way of knowing that we would be. However there would be shit tons of other bacteria, diseases, infections, viruses and what have you, as there has been since the beginning of life on this planet. Much of that shit has died off or mutated to an unrecognizable state, and if reintroduced today would probably kill us off. Of course, everything we know about biology tells us they have thier own bacteria and thereby would have had to contend with their own much like we have ours, and would be FORCED to know about it to combat thier own infections and diseases. In otherwords, they'd know that stepping out without innoculation or a space suit would be fatal, as it will be for us should we ever set foot on another planet with life, breathable air or not.

I would hope a civilization that developed space travel millions of years ago and has managed not to collapse would have figured out how to land on other planets at some point, especially while hatching invasion plots. Humans have only been here for 65,000 years or so, and can be considered "civilized" for only about 8,000 of that. We began space travel only 60 years ago, and even we aren't stupid enough to land on a planet and take off our masks, regardless of what you see on Star Trek.



When they buried the ship there it was under 250+ feet of water. For all we know, there's been a dozen volcanoes right there, 10 glaciers have passed over, more earthquakes than you can fathom. Who's to say what could happen in millions of years.

Of course, that's your number, not mine. The movie never actually says. My estimate was 65,000 years ago, about the time humans appearred on this planet. It's all speculation of course, but if they were going to harvest us, and wanted to wait till the "fields were ripe", you'd want to bury the ships after said species you plan on eating actually exists. They of course had no idea where we'd dig our holes and what might happen in the meantime. There was a helluva lot more of the tripods than just in Jersey, odds are good we'd have found one unless they were buried so deep we couldn't possibly get that far down. I'm not going to assume that's beyond thier technology(although infrared seems to be), but what's the point? And they certainly wouldn't want use to find them, I mean imagine how embarrassing it'd be to invade a planet that can hide behind your own shielding tech, immune to your attacks, while you die of bacteria like a dumbass. All while driving around on wheeled vehicles, those rat bastards!

It adds even more unbelievability to an unbelievable film, easier to just land from the sky. This story was science fiction in 1898, but these days it's closer to science fantasy. Not so different from ID4 really.
1. Once again, the only people we can really see are the few it focused on. Who is to say there were not that many guns there. The background was out of focus and because the director chose not to focus on the crowd leaves us unable to make a definitive statement on how many people actually had guns.

2. First, the crowd wasn't anywhere near calm. Second, even if there were 2,000 who acted stupidly (in your opinion), who is to say there were not 10, 50, or 100 times that many who did not opt to stupidly go on the boat. Once again you are making universal assumptions based on one segment of society that was shown on screen. If there were 50,000 and only 2,000 of them chose to try and get on the boat, then that is entirely plausible.

3. Just because we (or an alien race) combats bacteria, that doesn't mean that we can be 100% effective against it (see AIDS). The aliens could have been as careful as possible and that wouldn't give them assurance that they were unable to be affected by bacteria. Also, you are thinking in human terms. Just because humans would probably wear some sort of protection you can't assume that non-humans would also. It could have been the first planet the aliens tried to take over and it is possible that because of their negative experience on Earth, they would protect themselves in the future. Trial and error so to speak. That has happened plenty to humans.

So what if they were buried under 250 of water? There is no evidence in the movie that there other tripods than what came out of the ground in Jersey. Once again you are making assumptions that are not evident.
Old 07-05-05, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
I mean imagine how embarrassing it'd be to invade a planet that can hide behind your own shielding tech, immune to your attacks, while you die of bacteria like a dumbass. All while driving around on wheeled vehicles, those rat bastards!
to you, thephantom.

Last edited by RocShemp; 07-05-05 at 01:31 PM.
Old 07-05-05, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
In this country the numer of shotguns and rifles is almost double that of handguns. The total number of firearms is just under one for every person, but owned by about one in five people. We see two handguns and one shotgun and about 2500+ civillians in an apocalyptic setting. There would be more guns, and more people carrying them in the open, as a security blanket at the very least. Tom Cruise grabs his for that very same reason. When guns got pulled, more guns would have gotten pulled. That's just how it works. In a crowd of 100, statistically there should have been at least 10 visable rifles and shotguns, and another 5 handguns we may not see, and that's assuming 1 in 5 guns owners left their shit at home.
...um..... so.... who cares.... Not for nothing but the US doesnt just consist of TEXAS. We are talking about NJ. Most dont have that. Plus if freaking Aliens were attacking, i wouldnt stop and say, " this would be a good time now to go get a gun and seeing as the armed forces cant stop it, let me try. Trust me, at that point i didnt also think of shooting actual people.




Originally Posted by thephantom
Of course not. I don't expect them to remain completely stupid though, the body can't maintain it. Eventually reason comes back. Panic an fear is not we we saw with the stupid. You got 2000 people including police and army, the crowd is calmly loading on a boat going nowhere, and not one person points out that huge crowds are huge targets? I'm not buying it. We've seen real life exterminations and genocides that are virtually identical to what the aliens were doing, and people didn't do that. The whole "aliens invading" thing only rocks peoples world so long, survival takes over. Getting killed by a Nazi for being Jewish or getting killed by an alien for being human is still getting killed.
Ummmmm again.... i wont look back.... my a$$ is going straight toward what seems safe..... sorry but everyone was more worried about getting in the boat then of how my car looked behind me.

Originally Posted by thephantom
Millions of years ago life as we know it didn't even exist here. If they came to harvest our blood, we weren't there yet and there's no way of knowing that we would be. However there would be shit tons of other bacteria, diseases, infections, viruses and what have you, as there has been since the beginning of life on this planet. Much of that shit has died off or mutated to an unrecognizable state, and if reintroduced today would probably kill us off. Of course, everything we know about biology tells us they have thier own bacteria and thereby would have had to contend with their own much like we have ours, and would be FORCED to know about it to combat thier own infections and diseases. In otherwords, they'd know that stepping out without innoculation or a space suit would be fatal, as it will be for us should we ever set foot on another planet with life, breathable air or not.
Wow... i cant believe you typed that paragraph.

Originally Posted by thephantom
I would hope a civilization that developed space travel millions of years ago and has managed not to collapse would have figured out how to land on other planets at some point, especially while hatching invasion plots. Humans have only been here for 65,000 years or so, and can be considered "civilized" for only about 8,000 of that. We began space travel only 60 years ago, and even we aren't stupid enough to land on a planet and take off our masks, regardless of what you see on Star Trek.
First true statement.... but i am starting to think you believed the movie.



Originally Posted by thephantom
When they buried the ship there it was under 250+ feet of water. For all we know, there's been a dozen volcanoes right there, 10 glaciers have passed over, more earthquakes than you can fathom. Who's to say what could happen in millions of years.

Who's to say it didnt happen a long time ago..... we dont know. Thats the thing.

Originally Posted by thephantom
Of course, that's your number, not mine. The movie never actually says. My estimate was 65,000 years ago, about the time humans appearred on this planet. It's all speculation of course, but if they were going to harvest us, and wanted to wait till the "fields were ripe", you'd want to bury the ships after said species you plan on eating actually exists. They of course had no idea where we'd dig our holes and what might happen in the meantime. There was a helluva lot more of the tripods than just in Jersey, odds are good we'd have found one unless they were buried so deep we couldn't possibly get that far down. I'm not going to assume that's beyond thier technology(although infrared seems to be), but what's the point? And they certainly wouldn't want use to find them, I mean imagine how embarrassing it'd be to invade a planet that can hide behind your own shielding tech, immune to your attacks, while you die of bacteria like a dumbass. All while driving around on wheeled vehicles, those rat bastards!

The element of surprise my friend... and in the movie they achieved it

Originally Posted by thephantom
It adds even more unbelievability to an unbelievable film, easier to just land from the sky. This story was science fiction in 1898, but these days it's closer to science fantasy. Not so different from ID4 really.

ID4 made you leave your brain at the door.... this movie made you think alittle more...
Old 07-05-05, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
Well he is the star of the movie.
That's fine. I don't think anyone is complaining of that. The problem is the sell. We've been using Indy and Die Hard, but maybe ID4 is a better example. It's a hero/action movie and Will Smith is the hero/action star. We expect crazy shit to happen to him while he gets into misadventures, it's the nature of the beast.

This movie sells itself as something different based on the initial setup, more along the line of Signs, but throws that hero/action star shit at us repeatedly. I expect Ray to be Joe Schmoe dad, doing all he can to save his kids from a bad situation. The problem is it's multiple bad situation's thrown over and over again, and he always comes out on top seemingly magically with no help at all. Taken individually their misadventures aren't bad, but the sheer volume was over the top. I understand that crazy shit is happening to everyone, but when they sit people down for the 20/20 Invasion Day stories, no one elses is going to touch his. That's not really a bad thing, I just didn't like it. I believe that's two distinct styles of storytelling that I just don't think can be blended. Some of that could have been lessened by just having other people do things within Ray's PoV, as I suggested with the grenades and birds or even with the lynch mob scene, having someone else shoot to stop the fighting and say "I'm taking this car, end of story".


Originally Posted by Mopower
Finally it's a freaking alien invasion story. And some of you are complaining that it isn't realistic enough??
It's set basically today, and doesn't even apply todays logic to half the film. That's what makes it unrealistic. The closer it is to the real world, the higher the standard sci-fi and fantasy are going to be held to, rightfully so IMO. If you're going to use the "real world" to help apply your setting you need to either clearly establish your variations in logic, or not have any.
Old 07-05-05, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
I understand that crazy shit is happening to everyone, but when they sit people down for the 20/20 Invasion Day stories, no one elses is going to touch his.
How do you know? If this happened all over the world, I bet somebody came across worse situations then his story and survived.

There are a ton of stories from soldiers who survived all types of combat, from let's say World War II, and lived to tell about the same "crazy shit". Why couldn't it happen?

Saxon
Old 07-05-05, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
That's fine. I don't think anyone is complaining of that. The problem is the sell. We've been using Indy and Die Hard, but maybe ID4 is a better example. It's a hero/action movie and Will Smith is the hero/action star. We expect crazy shit to happen to him while he gets into misadventures, it's the nature of the beast.

This movie sells itself as something different based on the initial setup, more along the line of Signs, but throws that hero/action star shit at us repeatedly. I expect Ray to be Joe Schmoe dad, doing all he can to save his kids from a bad situation. The problem is it's multiple bad situation's thrown over and over again, and he always comes out on top seemingly magically with no help at all. Taken individually their misadventures aren't bad, but the sheer volume was over the top. I understand that crazy shit is happening to everyone, but when they sit people down for the 20/20 Invasion Day stories, no one elses is going to touch his. That's not really a bad thing, I just didn't like it. I believe that's two distinct styles of storytelling that I just don't think can be blended. Some of that could have been lessened by just having other people do things within Ray's PoV, as I suggested with the grenades and birds or even with the lynch mob scene, having someone else shoot to stop the fighting and say "I'm taking this car, end of story".
Dude, what do you want from the movie then? Aliens invade. Tom Cruise sits in house and then the aliens die. End of movie? Is that what you want? In a story stuff has to happen between the beginning and the end of it. You are complaining that stuff happened. Maybe you want the movie to be more boring? You are really grasping at staws here.



Originally Posted by thephantom
It's set basically today, and doesn't even apply todays logic to half the film. That's what makes it unrealistic. The closer it is to the real world, the higher the standard sci-fi and fantasy are going to be held to, rightfully so IMO. If you're going to use the "real world" to help apply your setting you need to either clearly establish your variations in logic, or not have any.
It's a sci-fi fantasy story set in modern times. It doesn't have to be completely realistic. Just because it happens in modern times doesn't mean its a documentary of real world events. Shit, Jurassic Park took place in modern times too and it had freaking man made dinosaurs! Are you saying that movie sucked too because we can't make dinosaurs in real life? After all it was in a real world setting?
Old 07-05-05, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by raven56706
...um..... so.... who cares.... Not for nothing but the US doesnt just consist of TEXAS. We are talking about NJ. Most dont have that. Plus if freaking Aliens were attacking, i wouldnt stop and say, " this would be a good time now to go get a gun and seeing as the armed forces cant stop it, let me try. Trust me, at that point i didnt also think of shooting actual people.
So you're telling me if you hear strange noises at night, or get scared(I mean truly scared) of something, you don't arm yourself? If so you're a unique person. Most people would want some form of personal defense, however useless they know it to be, just to feel better. Doesn't have to be gun, could be anything you'd use as a weapon.

And I think humanity has proven how untrustworthy it is time and again. When the shit hits the fan, it's every man for himself, stupid as that may seem. I'd damn sure want something to save myself from people just as much as the aliens. Come to think of it, in this movie they take more injury from other people than they do from the aliens.

Originally Posted by raven56706
Ummmmm again.... i wont look back.... my a$$ is going straight toward what seems safe..... sorry but everyone was more worried about getting in the boat then of how my car looked behind me.
How do you know what seems save? You don't, you're just moving for the sake of moving. I'd be there were just as many people on the other side waiting for the boat to bring them across too. The truth is, no one knew shit. When you don't know shit, best option is to find a safe place and stay put until you know something. Where the hell were these people going? Boston? Boston was more trashed than the little town they left behind. In fact, the damn tripods came from the direction these people were trying to go.

Originally Posted by raven56706
Wow... i cant believe you typed that paragraph.
Why?

Originally Posted by raven56706
The element of surprise my friend... and in the movie they achieved it
Wouldn't everyone been just as surpised if a big ass metal cylinder landed in a building and then the tripod crawled out if it?

Originally Posted by raven56706
:ID4 made you leave your brain at the door.... this movie made you think alittle more...
Not a whole lot more. In fact just discussing the stuff I pointed out is making me noticed even more crappy leaps in logic.
Old 07-05-05, 02:14 PM
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Anyone know if there are any pics posted showing the Tripods?
Old 07-05-05, 02:17 PM
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All I'm saying is it would have been a LOT better if Tom Cruise noticed the aliens were exploding when they heard yodeling music. It would have made more sense too.
Old 07-05-05, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
So you're telling me if you hear strange noises at night, or get scared(I mean truly scared) of something, you don't arm yourself? If so you're a unique person. Most people would want some form of personal defense, however useless they know it to be, just to feel better. Doesn't have to be gun, could be anything you'd use as a weapon.

.
I live in TX, and perhaps 20% of people I know have a gun and I would guarantee that if I looked outside and a big alien tripod was coming after me, I wouldn't take the time to go into a safe and grab a gun. I would be running.

Anyway, once again you are assuming things that are not evident in the movie (that only 2 people had guns).
Old 07-05-05, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wago70
Anyone know if there are any pics posted showing the Tripods?
I posted a pic of myself in another thread, but the moderators took it down.

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