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WAR OF THE WORLDS thread... (merged)

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WAR OF THE WORLDS thread... (merged)

Old 07-05-05, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
Dude, what do you want from the movie then? Aliens invade. Tom Cruise sits in house and then the aliens die. End of movie? Is that what you want? In a story stuff has to happen between the beginning and the end of it. You are complaining that stuff happened. Maybe you want the movie to be more boring? You are really grasping at staws here.

It's a sci-fi fantasy story set in modern times. It doesn't have to be completely realistic. Just because it happens in modern times doesn't mean its a documentary of real world events. Shit, Jurassic Park took place in modern times too and it had freaking man made dinosaurs! Are you saying that movie sucked too because we can't make dinosaurs in real life? After all it was in a real world setting?
If you want a movie where nothing happens then maybe Phantom should rent "Gerry" or a Vincent Gallo movie.

Saxon

Last edited by runnersdialzero; 07-05-05 at 02:28 PM.
Old 07-05-05, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by runnersdialzero
If you want a movie where nothing happens then maybe Phantom should rent "Gerry" or a Vincent Gallo movie.

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Old 07-05-05, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
Dude, what do you want from the movie then? Aliens invade. Tom Cruise sits in house and then the aliens die. End of movie? Is that what you want? In a story stuff has to happen between the beginning and the end of it. You are complaining that stuff happened. Maybe you want the movie to be more boring? You are really grasping at staws here.
The issue is not with action happening, that's absolutely fine. It's the action that happens to only one person that's the problem. Only Ray knows how to fix a solenoid. Apparently only Ray makes it back to his neighborhood from the initial attack, as no one seemed to have warned anyone(we know Ray didn't, he went home and washed up). Only Ray has a damn 747 land on his head. Only Ray and his family survive the tipped over ferry(I'd love to watch the scene again, I'm 99% sure they are ONLY people who tried to swim and made it, in the wide shot you see the Tripods shooting people behind them, and no one seems to be in front). Only Ray blows up a tripod with a hand grenade. Only Ray, out of 300 people, notices the shields are down. All of this was great action happening from within Ray's PoV, but it didn't all have to be Ray, most of it could have had other people involved. Instead this was like Ethan Hunt vs the aliens while trying to maintain his cover as a loser dad.

Again, there's nothing wrong with telling a story like that, it's just not a story I'm going to be interested in. Your mileage may and obviously does vary.



Originally Posted by Mopower
It's a sci-fi fantasy story set in modern times. It doesn't have to be completely realistic. Just because it happens in modern times doesn't mean its a documentary of real world events. Shit, Jurassic Park took place in modern times too and it had freaking man made dinosaurs! Are you saying that movie sucked too because we can't make dinosaurs in real life? After all it was in a real world setting?
Wrong. Jurrasic Park was science fiction with adventure elements. You need one leap in logic, that we can clone dinosaurs from ancient DNA, and the rest of the movie is set from there. We can already do cloning, and we can collect dinosaur DNA to a limited degree. It's not exactly a huge leap is it?

Certainly not as huge a leap that aliens buried war machines here eons ago in an ancient plot to enslave/kill/eat mankind(possibly before mankind existed), and waited with infinite patients for millions of years for the proper moment to strike, only to have all this plotting and planning foiled because someone forgot the scuba gear.
Old 07-05-05, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
The issue is not with action happening, that's absolutely fine. It's the action that happens to only one person that's the problem. Only Ray knows how to fix a solenoid. Apparently only Ray makes it back to his neighborhood from the initial attack, as no one seemed to have warned anyone(we know Ray didn't, he went home and washed up). Only Ray has a damn 747 land on his head. Only Ray and his family survive the tipped over ferry(I'd love to watch the scene again, I'm 99% sure they are ONLY people who tried to swim and made it, in the wide shot you see the Tripods shooting people behind them, and no one seems to be in front). Only Ray blows up a tripod with a hand grenade. Only Ray, out of 300 people, notices the shields are down. All of this was great action happening from within Ray's PoV, but it didn't all have to be Ray, most of it could have had other people involved. Instead this was like Ethan Hunt vs the aliens while trying to maintain his cover as a loser dad.
.

Maybe when the DVD comes out it will have 50 hours of bonus footage that shows what happened to everyone else. Or maybe Spielberg should have split the screen into 16 sections so that we could see what happened to 15 other people. Would that have made it more appealing?

Why are you still making universal assumptions based solely on what the filmmaker decided to show us?

Last edited by cdollaz; 07-05-05 at 03:06 PM.
Old 07-05-05, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
The issue is not with action happening, that's absolutely fine. It's the action that happens to only one person that's the problem. Only Ray knows how to fix a solenoid. Apparently only Ray makes it back to his neighborhood from the initial attack, as no one seemed to have warned anyone(we know Ray didn't, he went home and washed up). Only Ray has a damn 747 land on his head. Only Ray and his family survive the tipped over ferry(I'd love to watch the scene again, I'm 99% sure they are ONLY people who tried to swim and made it, in the wide shot you see the Tripods shooting people behind them, and no one seems to be in front). Only Ray blows up a tripod with a hand grenade. Only Ray, out of 300 people, notices the shields are down. All of this was great action happening from within Ray's PoV, but it didn't all have to be Ray, most of it could have had other people involved. Instead this was like Ethan Hunt vs the aliens while trying to maintain his cover as a loser dad.

Again, there's nothing wrong with telling a story like that, it's just not a story I'm going to be interested in. Your mileage may and obviously does vary.

Take most blockbuster movies and everything envolves the main charactor(s). Major plot points are created by their actions. This isn't the first or last movie to do it.





Originally Posted by thephantom
Wrong. Jurrasic Park was science fiction with adventure elements. You need one leap in logic, that we can clone dinosaurs from ancient DNA, and the rest of the movie is set from there. We can already do cloning, and we can collect dinosaur DNA to a limited degree. It's not exactly a huge leap is it?

Certainly not as huge a leap that aliens buried war machines here eons ago in an ancient plot to enslave/kill/eat mankind(possibly before mankind existed), and waited with infinite patients for millions of years for the proper moment to strike, only to have all this plotting and planning foiled because someone forgot the scuba gear.
Well WOTW is the retelling of a book written 108 years ago. The ending might be lame nowadays especially with a modern audience. But that is the way the movie had to end. Not everyone is going to like it.
Old 07-05-05, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
aliens buried war machines here eons ago in an ancient plot to enslave/kill/eat mankind(possibly before mankind existed), and waited with infinite patients for millions of years for the proper moment to strike, only to have all this plotting and planning foiled because someone forgot the scuba gear.
You make me miss MST3K.
Old 07-05-05, 03:10 PM
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As a whole, Spielberg's 'War of the Worlds' celebrates the dubious bravery of simply surviving: to live long enough when you don't know how much is enough.

What struck me so much about the movie was the way humanity was made to look so insignificant, and yet Spielberg is able to convey the lives lost in each sequence of destruction (one of his specialties). He is such a great imagist that I could understand why Ray's son felt the need to witness the carnage on the other side of the hill.

Ray and his family are the audience's proxies. The efforts of characterization are transparent in order to propel them through the carnage. But lovely moments exist in Ogilvy's basement, not only between Rachel and Ray, but the silent struggle between Ray and Ogilvy over the shotgun was exceptional. The dialogue in this entire act is deliberate in its ramifications, but the imagery still takes precedence. The dank hiding place, diminishing man's place on his own world also makes humanity as slippery and elusive as the single-cell organisms shown in the prologue.

It's the above distinction that resonated most with me and made Ray's 'arrival and discovery' palatable. While many criticize this semi-conclusion as pandering (and in most cases I would agree) I think it's just a silent affirmation of surviving in the face of astronomical odds.

Like in his masterpiece 'A.I. Artificial Intelligence' Spielberg's own trappings end up pushing a normal film into something much more interesting. It would be a stretch for me to place 'War of the Worlds' as a great film (I find the characterizations to be the weak link), but I do consider it one of his better works (particularly a much, much better monster movie than 'Jurassic Park' and 'The Lost World').
Old 07-05-05, 03:10 PM
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Still, I agree that bacteria was not a bad way to kill them. Problems with the ending arise form the "they had been here a long time ago". That was silly. If it were just some alien race that in their hubris saw our planet as just one more they could conquer and found themselves slaughtered not by anyy of our efforts but by the bacteria in our planet, that's cool. But saying that they planned this for ages and forgot to read Gorblat's report about airborne infections is just plain silly.
Old 07-05-05, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RocShemp
Still, I agree that bacteria was not a bad way to kill them. Problems with the ending arise form the "they had been here a long time ago". That was silly. If it were just some alien race that in their hubris saw our planet as just one more they could conquer and found themselves slaughtered not by anyy of our efforts but by the bacteria in our planet, that's cool. But saying that they planned this for ages and forgot to read Gorblat's report about airborne infections is just plain silly.

In the book they looked at earth thru a telescope and watched us. Then they decided they could take us and invaded. In 1898 that made sense since no one knew what the hell a space probe was. But today people will say that the ending is stupid "because if they can travel across space why can't they test our atmosphere for bacteria?". Well they didn't. Or they did and couldn't tell that it would hurt them. Ask HG Wells.
Old 07-05-05, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RocShemp
Still, I agree that bacteria was not a bad way to kill them. Problems with the ending arise form the "they had been here a long time ago". That was silly. If it were just some alien race that in their hubris saw our planet as just one more they could conquer and found themselves slaughtered not by anyy of our efforts but by the bacteria in our planet, that's cool. But saying that they planned this for ages and forgot to read Gorblat's report about airborne infections is just plain silly.

1. There is no evidence that they planned this for ages. They could have simply decided to man the hidden ships at that particular time on a whim.

2. There is no evidence the infection is airborne. In fact, they show them drinking water, implying that it was transmitted that way. Either way, it may be easy to say that there is no way that they would have forgotten about protecting themselves because as humans we would probably do so. But they are not human and expecting them to act with human rationale is silly.
Old 07-05-05, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cdollaz
Why are you still making universal assumptions based solely on what the filmmaker decided to show us?
I'm making no assumptions at all. YOU'RE the one making assumptions. You're assuming that people outside of Ray's PoV did things. I'm going by what happend strictly within Ray's Pov(and therefore what the movie showed me, since everything is from his PoV), and everything that happens in Ray's PoV is something that Ray does. Again this is fine for a hero action flick, but this movie seemed to me(and apparent some others) to not be a hero action flick. Ray is a supposedly normal guy, a blue collar schmuck who's a failure as a husband and a father. He lives in a dump, his son hates him, and he's basically getting by day to day. When the aliens showed up he didn't respond to some batsignal, or whip out a supersuit, or get a call from the president, or get a message from the V-8 engine on the kitchen table that started with "Your mission, if you choose to accept it".

But maybe he should have...

Again, as I've said over and over and over, these things easily could have been done by different people within Ray's PoV and it would have changed absolutely nothing in the story at all, except to make his character more believable.
Old 07-05-05, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
The issue is not with action happening, that's absolutely fine. It's the action that happens to only one person that's the problem. Only Ray knows how to fix a solenoid. Apparently only Ray makes it back to his neighborhood from the initial attack, as no one seemed to have warned anyone(we know Ray didn't, he went home and washed up). Only Ray has a damn 747 land on his head. Only Ray and his family survive the tipped over ferry(I'd love to watch the scene again, I'm 99% sure they are ONLY people who tried to swim and made it, in the wide shot you see the Tripods shooting people behind them, and no one seems to be in front). Only Ray blows up a tripod with a hand grenade. Only Ray, out of 300 people, notices the shields are down. All of this was great action happening from within Ray's PoV, but it didn't all have to be Ray, most of it could have had other people involved. Instead this was like Ethan Hunt vs the aliens while trying to maintain his cover as a loser dad.

Again, there's nothing wrong with telling a story like that, it's just not a story I'm going to be interested in. Your mileage may and obviously does vary.
Did it bother you in The Pianist that the lead character always seemed to survive, despite the fact everyone else was being killed? That was a true story too. Simple truth is, given a situation like this, there will be stories of people who survived, who made it through against the odds. These are not the majority, and perhaps the exceptional cases, but it's not that hard to believe. Certainly Ray's story is more interesting then the person who got zapped right off the bat.

But most importantly, assuming that something didn't happen, because it wasn't shown, is your error, not the movie's error. The film stuck with it's lead character...you have no idea if other people survived the Ferry. No idea if other people survived the initial attack. We have no idea if somebody else didn't grenade a tripod. They did mention word that a tripod had been taken down elsewhere, so obviously Ray wasn't the first to do it. We DO know other people got their cars working. This complaint seems to be more about wanting the film to show slice of lives of multiple people (ie every other freakin disaster movie out there). But because the film didn't, does not mean these things did not happen. And in any situation like this, much like the film The Pianist, luck will play a major role in his survival. Ray barely does anything heroic, and spends most of the time running and hiding. You can call that action movie hero syndrome, but I think you're wrong.

Last edited by jaeufraser; 07-05-05 at 03:31 PM.
Old 07-05-05, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by thephantom
I'm making no assumptions at all. YOU'RE the one making assumptions. You're assuming that people outside of Ray's PoV did things. .
No, I'm not assuming people outside Ray's world did things. However I am remaining open to the possibility. On the other hand, you have many plenty of assumptions. Here are a few:

Only 2 people had guns.

Ray is the only one that blew up a tripod with a grenade.

The aliens have bacteria on their planet.

Not a single person in the crowd points out that big crowds are a target.


And those are just the ones I remember off the top of my head. There were plenty more.
Old 07-05-05, 03:33 PM
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Mowpower and cdollaz:

I get what you both are saying but the narration clearly states they planned the invasion and the fact that they put the tripods on Earth implied they had been here before. If they had been here before they should have taken samples from earth (soil, water, minerals, etc.) for testing. Had it been like on the book, where they just invaded, it would have been more plausible.

And their drinking that water was ridiculous. If you were in a foreign environment and you didn't know the quality of anything, would you drink some foreign fluid? Hell no!

As I said before, I don't mind bacteria killing them. That's very plausible. But it's only plausible if they came unprepared. An arsenal hidden under the very feet of those who are to be invaded implies planning and foresight. Sorry but they should have nixed the underground idea for the backteria angle to work. As I said before, had the aliens just seen Earth and said "we big. We bad. Let's go start some shit" and gotten killed due to the smallest organisms on Earth, the ending would have worked a whole lot better.
Old 07-05-05, 03:34 PM
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The aliens drank water? What? When did this happen?
Old 07-05-05, 03:36 PM
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When they were in the basement. You can see them clearly drinking water.
Old 07-05-05, 03:38 PM
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Oh. I must have zoned out that whole basement scene.

Were they drinking it out of a hose or did they have cups? what?

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Old 07-05-05, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cdollaz
No, I'm not assuming people outside Ray's world did things. However I am remaining open to the possibility. On the other hand, you have many plenty of assumptions. Here are a few:
Actually, it's far more logical to assume other people did do things, then not. Obviously people survived...they went through things themselves. When Ray is at the Ferry, he meets up with a woman he knows from his neighborhood. Obviously, if you wanted, you could tell her story of survival which could very well be just as crazy and intense. The simple truth is, as Ray travels along, he continually encounters more people, which quite simply means that other people are surviving too. Meaning...they too are doing things.

To assume Ray is the only one surviving is to ignore the fact that many others did too.
Old 07-05-05, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by RocShemp
Mowpower and cdollaz:

I get what you both are saying but the narration clearly states they planned the invasion and the fact that they put the tripods on Earth implied they had been here before. If they had been here before they should have taken samples from earth (soil, water, minerals, etc.) for testing. Had it been like on the book, where they just invaded, it would have been more plausible.

And their drinking that water was ridiculous. If you were in a foreign environment and you didn't know the quality of anything, would you drink some foreign fluid? Hell no!

As I said before, I don't mind bacteria killing them. That's very plausible. But it's only plausible if they came unprepared. An arsenal hidden under the very feet of those who are to be invaded implies planning and foresight. Sorry but they should have nixed the underground idea for the backteria angle to work. As I said before, had the aliens just seen Earth and said "we big. We bad. Let's go start some shit" and gotten killed due to the smallest organisms on Earth, the ending would have worked a whole lot better.

With their weapons they probably thought nothing on earth would harm them. Maybe they don't have bacteria or diesease on their planet. We don't know that they even know the concept of microbes.
Old 07-05-05, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dadaluholla
Oh. I must have zoned out that whole basement scene.

Were they drinking it out of a hose or did they have cups? what?

You zoned out during a scene that lasted a good 20 min? One of them drinks out of a broken pipe coming out of a basement wall.
Old 07-05-05, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RocShemp
Mowpower and cdollaz:

I get what you both are saying but the narration clearly states they planned the invasion and the fact that they put the tripods on Earth implied they had been here before. If they had been here before they should have taken samples from earth (soil, water, minerals, etc.) for testing. Had it been like on the book, where they just invaded, it would have been more plausible.

And their drinking that water was ridiculous. If you were in a foreign environment and you didn't know the quality of anything, would you drink some foreign fluid? Hell no!

As I said before, I don't mind bacteria killing them. That's very plausible. But it's only plausible if they came unprepared. An arsenal hidden under the very feet of those who are to be invaded implies planning and foresight. Sorry but they should have nixed the underground idea for the backteria angle to work. As I said before, had the aliens just seen Earth and said "we big. We bad. Let's go start some shit" and gotten killed due to the smallest organisms on Earth, the ending would have worked a whole lot better.
1. I must have missed the narration clearly stating they planned the invasion. But even if it did, they may have been a society with so much military might that it blinded them to other details. Military powers have been taken down because of the fact that they were all brawn and no brains. That is possible here also. There is no evidence they took any samples so we cannot assume they did. Even if they did take samples, it would have been in the past and would not have prepared them for current infections and diseases. Are you not aware that we have different afflictions today than we did many years ago? Maybe they did take samples and took steps to protect themselves from the bacteria they found many years ago. That doesn't guarantee them protection in the present.

2. I wouldn't drink water I wasn't sure about, but that is easy to say based on my experience and awareness of the possibilities. Who's to say the aliens had never come across any tainted water before. Maybe they were willing to drink water because they had tested years ago and found nothing toxic to them at that time.

Last edited by cdollaz; 07-05-05 at 03:49 PM.
Old 07-05-05, 03:50 PM
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You zoned out during a scene that lasted a good 20 min?

Yes I must have. i remember Tim Robbins saying something about occupations never working and then snoooooozzzze.
Old 07-05-05, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
With their weapons they probably thought nothing on earth would harm them. Maybe they don't have bacteria or diesease on their planet. We don't know that they even know the concept of microbes.
But an assumption of invincibilty implies a lack of preparation. With an arsenal hidden on Earth, these aliens were clearly prepared.

Now, your assumption that they were unfamiliar with microbes makes sense on the surface. I say "on the surface" not as a pun but rather that it looses plausibility upon further consideration. I could buy them being unaware of microbes when first they arrived on our planet but this was not the first time they arrived on our planet. The first landing party (the one that hid the Tripods underground) should have all died of disease. This in turn would have prompted their fellow aliens to investigate the situation further and prepare methodes to combat Earthbound microbes.
Old 07-05-05, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cdollaz
No, I'm not assuming people outside Ray's world did things. However I am remaining open to the possibility. On the other hand, you have many plenty of assumptions. Here are a few:
These aren't assumptions, this is what happend in the movie. Only 2 people had guns, from Ray's PoV. I find that completely unrealistic.

Ray, the guy who everything just happens to happen to, happens to be the one who blows up a tripod with a grenade. Here's where you misunderstand me. I don't know who blow up what outside of Ray's PoV. If a twevle year old took out 300 of these things with a lighter and a can of hairspray, I don't give a damn. What I do give a damn about is that by this point Ray seems to be the only guy who doesn't stand around like a sheep. How hard would it have been to have the Half-Life barnacle/sphincter thing grab someone else and Ray hand the guy a grenade, or the soldier see the grenade belt and put it use, something. Instead we fall back on Ray again. That's ok for a bit, but I found it repetitive.

No one did point out that crowds gathered around loud noisemaking machinery and bright lights are a bad idea, at least not loud enough Ray hears it. I find that unrealistic. More realistic would be the cops yelling in a bullhorn, "Everyone disperse before the aliens find us and blow our asses away".

I am making assumptions about bacteria, based on my understanding of biology. If you can find me a biologist who'll say that there's more than a .00000000000000001% of a human sized oxygen/co2/nitrogen breathing, water drinking lifeform that never encountered bacteria, I'll give up that point.


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Old 07-05-05, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RocShemp

Now, your assumption that they were unfamiliar with microbes makes sense on the surface. I say "on the surface" not as a pun but rather that it looses plausibility upon further consideration. I could buy them being unaware of microbes when first they arrived on our planet but this was not the first time they arrived on our planet. The first landing party (the one that hid the Tripods underground) should have all died of disease. This in turn would have prompted their fellow aliens to investigate the situation further and prepare methodes to combat Earthbound microbes.
Maybe the original party did die, which led them to investigate further. Upon investigation, they found what killed them and found a cure. Imagine their surprise when they came back this time and a new toxin killed them, one which didn't exist the last time around.

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