Just Saw Matrix: Revolutions (Thoughts)
#126
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From: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
By this point it's page five of a discussion of the movie, you might as well speak your mind. any moron who is on page five deserves it to be spoiled.
#127
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Just got back from seeing it. I thought it was really good. Not great, but really good. The effects were mind boggling! But I must say, I was dissapointed with the fact that:
Bring on "THE MATRIX: RESURRECTION"
:P
Spoiler:
Bring on "THE MATRIX: RESURRECTION"
:P
#128
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From: Memphis, TN
My thoughts... (extremely long, quite detailed, and delving into the background quite a bit).
Overall, I liked it. It wasn't too annoying in it's faults, and it did have enough to ponder as I walked out of the theater. The general disappointment was immediately after it ended, and it took the rest of the day to work it out in my head to where I can say that it was a good movie overall.
But I liked the second movie far better.
Spoiler:
Overall, I liked it. It wasn't too annoying in it's faults, and it did have enough to ponder as I walked out of the theater. The general disappointment was immediately after it ended, and it took the rest of the day to work it out in my head to where I can say that it was a good movie overall.
But I liked the second movie far better.
Last edited by Otto; 11-06-03 at 02:14 AM.
#129
DVD Talk Hero
Is it really that hard to write and act in a scifi movie?
No no, I mean really. Is it?
*cringes again*
Enjoyable, but boy is it cheesy.
In a sense - it's like AOTC, only not nearly as boring.
No no, I mean really. Is it?
*cringes again*
Enjoyable, but boy is it cheesy.
In a sense - it's like AOTC, only not nearly as boring.
#130
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From: Friggin Fiji
wow .. i need to take some time for Otto's take ...
but Isamu gave me an idea ... titles for the next sequel ???? Best Guess:
Matrix Repeated
Matrix Repulsive
Matrix Rerun
Matrix IV: The search for Neo
and one more
MatrixXx: Faster, Furiouser
keep em coming ... someone will be right
but Isamu gave me an idea ... titles for the next sequel ???? Best Guess:
Matrix Repeated
Matrix Repulsive
Matrix Rerun
Matrix IV: The search for Neo
and one more
MatrixXx: Faster, Furiouser
keep em coming ... someone will be right
#132
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From: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Originally posted by Rypro 525
My thoughts on Matrix 3.
The machines are God and his angels. God is the forces of nature and pure mathematics.
Neo is Jesus, created by God to ensure people survive Satan and exist to worship and serve, or in this case, feed, God.
Smith is Satan. Neo (Jesus) was out on earth by God to counterbalance Satan and ensure people survive to worship - feed - God.
I am not an actively religious person so maybe my thoughts are over the top.
My thoughts on Matrix 3.
The machines are God and his angels. God is the forces of nature and pure mathematics.
Neo is Jesus, created by God to ensure people survive Satan and exist to worship and serve, or in this case, feed, God.
Smith is Satan. Neo (Jesus) was out on earth by God to counterbalance Satan and ensure people survive to worship - feed - God.
I am not an actively religious person so maybe my thoughts are over the top.
Put it simply. Smith is not satan. You might recall some basic myth names thrown into the mix. Persephone is the wife of hades, lord of the underworld, satan.
well you do know who is married to Persephone in the film... Merovingian. It's pretty clear that he is the master of hell. He has the exiled programs out and makes deals with them much like making a deal with the devil. What better way to create the devil then by making him french? Well simply put, he is the lord of the underworld so that would be your devil/satan character. If anything Smith is just neo's nemesis and it wasn't like Satan was after jesus. He just wanted to tempt him so Merovingian falls into that place in a sense. To be in control.
Neo is indeed the Ying to Smith's Yang. without one or the other they would not be. How did this come about? Well not entirely sure but the merge in the first film could have something to do with this of course.
As for GOD being the machines. Well in the matrix the machines are indeed gods and the Programs would be considered the angels because they are floating around making sure that everything is in it's right place. It's those rouge programs that fall from grace and become helpers of the devil that work for the Merovingian. So that adds to the whole Merovingian being the devil role. So we have the angels and fallen angels in the matrix. God is there and Neo is the sort of Jesus figure.
The architect isn't GOD. it is just another program to make sure everything is in it's right place. to make sure everything is balanced out. This is why he wants neo to go back so that the cycle can continue. this one time it was thrown off because of choice. Not a pre-deteremined choice because not everything came true the way the arch said it would. Neo did not go back to zion and save the 23 folks and so on. there was a choice. the choice was to try to make peace and hope that a total reformt was not going to take place on the matrix and a total wipe out take place in zion.
Neo is around to be a sort of marker that shows that a reformat is about to happen. No real reason other then to clean the system out. in the past cycles the other "one's" went back and continued the cycle. Why? well who knows if you need reserves if all humanity was wiped out or so forth so having a group able to get harvested again for power is always useful. Besides, the system is in a constant upgrade so they need those folks around to exile those rejects not accepting the matrix so they kind find the flaws of the new matrix and trouble shoot it. all part of a big system debugging.
Of course the other characters come into play for names. Morpheus is the god of dreams. His belief in the one and the salvation is a sort of piece of that. A dream.
But for the most part, Smith is no satan. that role is for Merovingian.
Also for those who put in the Eva link. well Shinji had the choice on how he wanted the world to be like afterwards. His choice lead to the salvation or destruction of man. it strikes a close comperisson.
I'm awaiting the many DBZ references which being a not so big fan of DBZ, I kinda shyed away from that connection.
#133
DVD Talk Legend
I saw it tonight... I liked it. I thought part 2 wasn't very good, but 3 made up for it. I didn't think any of it was unclear. I also read through the thread just now and I think some of you have it wrong. 
I also think reviewers are idiots.

I also think reviewers are idiots.
#136
DVD Talk Gold Edition
First I would say this movie is in no way the horrible Phantom Menace-like embarrassment the majority of critics made it out to be, and I'm glad I saw it. However, that doesn't let the movie off the hook.
The first Matrix was groundbreaking with a clever science fiction concept. The third one is a paint-by-numbers generic sci-fi story running on autopilot to complete a trilogy.
There was so much exposition in the second film, which led me to believe there would be a huge payoff in the third - and that never happened. Consequently, the second one now suffers as a result. "Matrix Reloaded" now seems like an overblown director's cut that desperately needs trimmed.
The resolution for getting Neo out of his coma wasn't very interesting, and certainly wasn't worth waiting six months to see how it was going to be resolved. His final battle with Smith should have been the most mind-blowing battle to ever end a trilogy. Instead, it just made me more fond of their battle from the first Matrix. A mild disappointment there.
I realized Gloria Foster who originally played the Oracle died, but the way they explained this new actress playing the part made no sense. So the Merovingian has that kind of power? I thought the Oracle was the all-powerful mother of the Matrix! If he can do that to her, what the heck does he need her eyes for? And you're telling me the directors could get an actor for the role of Bane to play a dead-on impersonation of Agent Smith, and THIS was the best they could do with the Oracle's replacement? She wasn't even close to being as good as the original - which now makes Gloria Foster look like best supporting actress material. So all of that unfortunately took me out of the movie. My suggestion, for what it's worth, would have been to leave the Oracle scenes out and expand Seraph's part to fill any continuity gaps.
And what great characters the Merovingian and Persephone were in the previous film. Now their parts are totally wasted with no resolution to the rivalry between Merv and Neo/Trinity/Morpheus. Not sure which is worse - the way that was handled, or Boba Fett screaming like a high school girl as he falls into the Sarlacc pit.
Still, the movie has its good points. Things happen to characters which I wasn't expecting. It doesn't end with a cliche "happy feel-good" ending. However, although the Wachowskis avoided this one cliche, they instead used another: The long death scene where the dying person gets to tell their significant other how much they loved them [I'm sure that cleared up a lot of confusion between them!] complete with a final kiss. Very syrupy IMHO.
I say go see it if you're a fan of the series. (Others will most likely be disappointed.)
The first Matrix was groundbreaking with a clever science fiction concept. The third one is a paint-by-numbers generic sci-fi story running on autopilot to complete a trilogy.
There was so much exposition in the second film, which led me to believe there would be a huge payoff in the third - and that never happened. Consequently, the second one now suffers as a result. "Matrix Reloaded" now seems like an overblown director's cut that desperately needs trimmed.
The resolution for getting Neo out of his coma wasn't very interesting, and certainly wasn't worth waiting six months to see how it was going to be resolved. His final battle with Smith should have been the most mind-blowing battle to ever end a trilogy. Instead, it just made me more fond of their battle from the first Matrix. A mild disappointment there.
I realized Gloria Foster who originally played the Oracle died, but the way they explained this new actress playing the part made no sense. So the Merovingian has that kind of power? I thought the Oracle was the all-powerful mother of the Matrix! If he can do that to her, what the heck does he need her eyes for? And you're telling me the directors could get an actor for the role of Bane to play a dead-on impersonation of Agent Smith, and THIS was the best they could do with the Oracle's replacement? She wasn't even close to being as good as the original - which now makes Gloria Foster look like best supporting actress material. So all of that unfortunately took me out of the movie. My suggestion, for what it's worth, would have been to leave the Oracle scenes out and expand Seraph's part to fill any continuity gaps.
And what great characters the Merovingian and Persephone were in the previous film. Now their parts are totally wasted with no resolution to the rivalry between Merv and Neo/Trinity/Morpheus. Not sure which is worse - the way that was handled, or Boba Fett screaming like a high school girl as he falls into the Sarlacc pit.
Still, the movie has its good points. Things happen to characters which I wasn't expecting. It doesn't end with a cliche "happy feel-good" ending. However, although the Wachowskis avoided this one cliche, they instead used another: The long death scene where the dying person gets to tell their significant other how much they loved them [I'm sure that cleared up a lot of confusion between them!] complete with a final kiss. Very syrupy IMHO.
I say go see it if you're a fan of the series. (Others will most likely be disappointed.)
#137
DVD Talk Hero
I see the 3 Matrix films as layers of a bigger story, not a linear form of storytelling.
The 1st one deals with the microscopic details of man and machine and how the Matrix is basically the conduit for each given the circumstances that have evolved (and filled in with the Animatrix shorts). Sure, it's well done and lays out a pretty neat premise to the bigger story to come. It's got plenty of "cool" to spare, and viewers respond to it.
The 2nd one deals with the middle-scopic details of man trying to find a way to avoid the cyclical nature of man's eventual disillusionment with their current relationship with the machines.
The 3rd one deals with the macroscopic details that build from how the emergence of Neo has enabled man to overcome their subordinate status to the machines, and entered into a new phase of their symbiotic relationship where neither overlords the other anymore (for now).
That "Revolutions" doesn't spit out pat answers to the questions raised with the little battles and skirmishes that are put up as obstacles to Neo and the resistance fighters isn't really all that relevant in the bigger picture: the survival of Zion and what it means to the relationship between man and machine in the new world order.
I don't really care that critics of "Revolutions" get caught up in the lack of payoff between scenes that happened in "Reloaded" because they aren't really all that relevant to the bigger picture, which is what "Revolutions" is all about. Critics give way too much power to the likes of the Merovingian and Persephone in the middle-story, and when their presence (in "Revolutions") is preceived to be given the short-shrift, all of their pent-up thoughts and predictions from "Reloaded" sort of show through their criticism of "Revolutions". There was so much in terms of rampant speculation of how the Merovingian and Persephone would impact "Revolutions" and when those expectations were not met, the criticism get amped up. I see those characters simply as fairly interesting obstacles put in place in order for Neo and the rest to get to their objectives at the time. Sure, they provide some clues to past incarnations of the Matrix reboots, but overall, they aren't what drives the story forward.
Why is Bane dangerous in "Revolutions"? For the simple reason that he/Smith now has the ability to affect things in the real world should suffice, but for some, this doesn't even register. A viewer sitting next to me never put it together that Bane was the physical manifestation of Smith in the real world and was confused as to why Bane would start talking like Smith. Well, Duh! Bane presented a clear and present danger to Neo, and if Neo didn't get past Bane, the revolution never gets going. Neo does get past Bane, but at the cost of his human sight.
I did find it ironic that Neo lost his sight, but his other "sight" was unleashed to its full potential. The cost was that Neo never got to see the sun in its full glory like Trinitiy did for that one amazing moment. The scene plays out metaphorically for me in that her love brings her to truly see the light and without the love for Neo, she never would have been there to experience it.
As alluded to before, the love, the connection to another person whose welfare you would put before you own at all costs is something very special and should be cultivated because it is the impetus to do truly heroic things in spite of the cost of your own life. It takes you from at a selfish state of existence to a self-less state. This point is proven time and time again in the battle for Zion as the focus goes from all the players introduced in the previous 2 films. They all play a self-less part in getting the job done in this drama.
This is the crux of "Revolutions". That love can motivate you when nothing else will is the force that can change a world. Sappy, you bet, but in a nutshell, it's always been about love and peace, because the alternative isn't worth living for.
The 1st one deals with the microscopic details of man and machine and how the Matrix is basically the conduit for each given the circumstances that have evolved (and filled in with the Animatrix shorts). Sure, it's well done and lays out a pretty neat premise to the bigger story to come. It's got plenty of "cool" to spare, and viewers respond to it.
The 2nd one deals with the middle-scopic details of man trying to find a way to avoid the cyclical nature of man's eventual disillusionment with their current relationship with the machines.
The 3rd one deals with the macroscopic details that build from how the emergence of Neo has enabled man to overcome their subordinate status to the machines, and entered into a new phase of their symbiotic relationship where neither overlords the other anymore (for now).
That "Revolutions" doesn't spit out pat answers to the questions raised with the little battles and skirmishes that are put up as obstacles to Neo and the resistance fighters isn't really all that relevant in the bigger picture: the survival of Zion and what it means to the relationship between man and machine in the new world order.
I don't really care that critics of "Revolutions" get caught up in the lack of payoff between scenes that happened in "Reloaded" because they aren't really all that relevant to the bigger picture, which is what "Revolutions" is all about. Critics give way too much power to the likes of the Merovingian and Persephone in the middle-story, and when their presence (in "Revolutions") is preceived to be given the short-shrift, all of their pent-up thoughts and predictions from "Reloaded" sort of show through their criticism of "Revolutions". There was so much in terms of rampant speculation of how the Merovingian and Persephone would impact "Revolutions" and when those expectations were not met, the criticism get amped up. I see those characters simply as fairly interesting obstacles put in place in order for Neo and the rest to get to their objectives at the time. Sure, they provide some clues to past incarnations of the Matrix reboots, but overall, they aren't what drives the story forward.
Why is Bane dangerous in "Revolutions"? For the simple reason that he/Smith now has the ability to affect things in the real world should suffice, but for some, this doesn't even register. A viewer sitting next to me never put it together that Bane was the physical manifestation of Smith in the real world and was confused as to why Bane would start talking like Smith. Well, Duh! Bane presented a clear and present danger to Neo, and if Neo didn't get past Bane, the revolution never gets going. Neo does get past Bane, but at the cost of his human sight.
I did find it ironic that Neo lost his sight, but his other "sight" was unleashed to its full potential. The cost was that Neo never got to see the sun in its full glory like Trinitiy did for that one amazing moment. The scene plays out metaphorically for me in that her love brings her to truly see the light and without the love for Neo, she never would have been there to experience it.
As alluded to before, the love, the connection to another person whose welfare you would put before you own at all costs is something very special and should be cultivated because it is the impetus to do truly heroic things in spite of the cost of your own life. It takes you from at a selfish state of existence to a self-less state. This point is proven time and time again in the battle for Zion as the focus goes from all the players introduced in the previous 2 films. They all play a self-less part in getting the job done in this drama.
This is the crux of "Revolutions". That love can motivate you when nothing else will is the force that can change a world. Sappy, you bet, but in a nutshell, it's always been about love and peace, because the alternative isn't worth living for.
#138
DVD Talk Gold Edition
On a side note, I would also like to know what the heck the MPAA uses as its criteria to rate films these days? This one was the tamest "R" of the three. According to ratings information, it was rated R for "sci-fi violence and brief sexual content." Well, I saw nothing worse than any "sci-fi violence" from PG-13 movies (or does "sci-fi violence" now automatically guarantee an R rating these days?) And the "brief sexual content" must have been very brief indeed, because I don't even remember it!
#139
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
I think I agree with your assessment the most rennervison. I'm too thinking that now Reloaded seems almost unnecessary and Revolutions suffers from what Reloaded set up. Granted, I feel that both Reloaded and Revolutions are very good movies, I pretty much would give them about the same grade (B- and B+). But, for me I think Revolutions would have been all the better had I not been waiting for more resolution to questions/situations set up in Reloaded. Reloaded almost seems like filler now.
And personally, I missed the battles in the Matrix. With this being the final installment they could have been so sleek, stylish, but with the intensity of the battles/fight scenes in the first. Instead I got mostly "real world" Mech-battles with squiddies.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it, but it just seems like something is missing.
And personally, I missed the battles in the Matrix. With this being the final installment they could have been so sleek, stylish, but with the intensity of the battles/fight scenes in the first. Instead I got mostly "real world" Mech-battles with squiddies.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it, but it just seems like something is missing.
#140
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Originally posted by rennervision
On a side note, I would also like to know what the heck the MPAA uses as its criteria to rate films these days? This one was the tamest "R" of the three. According to ratings information, it was rated R for "sci-fi violence and brief sexual content." Well, I saw nothing worse than any "sci-fi violence" from PG-13 movies (or does "sci-fi violence" now automatically guarantee an R rating these days?) And the "brief sexual content" must have been very brief indeed, because I don't even remember it!
On a side note, I would also like to know what the heck the MPAA uses as its criteria to rate films these days? This one was the tamest "R" of the three. According to ratings information, it was rated R for "sci-fi violence and brief sexual content." Well, I saw nothing worse than any "sci-fi violence" from PG-13 movies (or does "sci-fi violence" now automatically guarantee an R rating these days?) And the "brief sexual content" must have been very brief indeed, because I don't even remember it!
#141
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally posted by iggystar
[B]I pretty much would give them about the same grade (B- and B+).
[B]I pretty much would give them about the same grade (B- and B+).
#142
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From: Indy
Originally posted by iggystar
And personally, I missed the battles in the Matrix. With this being the final installment they could have been so sleek, stylish, but with the intensity of the battles/fight scenes in the first. Instead I got mostly "real world" Mech-battles with squiddies.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it, but it just seems like something is missing.
And personally, I missed the battles in the Matrix. With this being the final installment they could have been so sleek, stylish, but with the intensity of the battles/fight scenes in the first. Instead I got mostly "real world" Mech-battles with squiddies.
Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it, but it just seems like something is missing.
I actually enjoyed Reloaded more than I did Revolutions. I guess I'm in the minority.
#143
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From: Australia
I'm surprised after 6 pages no-ones mentioned the ghost twins from Reloaded yet. We all pretty expected them to make an appearance in this film. And then what was the deal with Persephone's kiss sampling in the last movie. I heard it was meant to come into play in Revolutions but now it just seems pointless.
#146
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From: Papillion, NE!
I was too disappointed w/Reloaded, but after seeing Revolutions, I like reloaded better. Reloaded was the cause (of choice) and Revolutions was the effect (of choice). I believe when people saw the tagline "Everything that has a beginning has an End" thought in the blackest and whitest of terms that there was going to be a Cinderella-like ending. A lot of people (critics included) have trouble thinking in the gray. Sure out of six pages of generally negative comments, people might feel upset with the trilogy, but come ten years or later, let's see what people say then.
People complain nowdays that most movies are all FX and no story; behold the Matrix, a series (if you include Animatrix/Enter the Matrix) that combines dazzling FX with a STORY and people still complain that there's little story!! WOW! what is your interpetation of a movie that has a story? Not everything has to have a 2001 level of story. But the Matrix's story is a unique one-one where people of different facets of society (religion, ethnic background) can decipher the story into a multitude of various levels, based on their interpetation.
The ending was fitting. I was thourghly pleased on how this series concluded. No Matrix 4-impossible (well, maybe in other meduims like comics or anime, but not in film).
It's a shame Reloaded is looked down upon, because, technically, reloaded and revolutions are the same movie, cut for the purpose of time.
Someone, Skank, mentioned the twins. My friend thought after Morphius blew up their Escalade, they were unable to dematerialize and therefore died in Reloaded. Anyone have thoughts on this; I thought they escaped.
Matrix: A
M: Reloaded/Revolutions: B
As a trilogy: B+
People complain nowdays that most movies are all FX and no story; behold the Matrix, a series (if you include Animatrix/Enter the Matrix) that combines dazzling FX with a STORY and people still complain that there's little story!! WOW! what is your interpetation of a movie that has a story? Not everything has to have a 2001 level of story. But the Matrix's story is a unique one-one where people of different facets of society (religion, ethnic background) can decipher the story into a multitude of various levels, based on their interpetation.
The ending was fitting. I was thourghly pleased on how this series concluded. No Matrix 4-impossible (well, maybe in other meduims like comics or anime, but not in film).
It's a shame Reloaded is looked down upon, because, technically, reloaded and revolutions are the same movie, cut for the purpose of time.
Someone, Skank, mentioned the twins. My friend thought after Morphius blew up their Escalade, they were unable to dematerialize and therefore died in Reloaded. Anyone have thoughts on this; I thought they escaped.
Matrix: A
M: Reloaded/Revolutions: B
As a trilogy: B+
#147
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I caught a 10:30pm show last night, and it appears that my fellow moviegoers were as bored as I was. The guy next to me was snoring quietly for the 2nd half of the film. What I found interesting was that a sizable portion of the crowd applauded and cheered -- yes, cheered -- at the end of the long death scene mentioned earlier.
My opinion? REVOLUTIONS sucked. But I'll have to buy the DVD anyway, just to freeze-frame on the aforementioned "twins".
My opinion? REVOLUTIONS sucked. But I'll have to buy the DVD anyway, just to freeze-frame on the aforementioned "twins".
#148
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by rennervision
On a side note, I would also like to know what the heck the MPAA uses as its criteria to rate films these days? This one was the tamest "R" of the three. According to ratings information, it was rated R for "sci-fi violence and brief sexual content." Well, I saw nothing worse than any "sci-fi violence" from PG-13 movies (or does "sci-fi violence" now automatically guarantee an R rating these days?) And the "brief sexual content" must have been very brief indeed, because I don't even remember it!
On a side note, I would also like to know what the heck the MPAA uses as its criteria to rate films these days? This one was the tamest "R" of the three. According to ratings information, it was rated R for "sci-fi violence and brief sexual content." Well, I saw nothing worse than any "sci-fi violence" from PG-13 movies (or does "sci-fi violence" now automatically guarantee an R rating these days?) And the "brief sexual content" must have been very brief indeed, because I don't even remember it!
#149
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From: Papillion, NE!
I was talking about the Twins from Reloaded, the ghost-like karate experts-they were not see or mentioned in Revolutions.
What does one make of Seti, the arab girl? If the Architect is the father and the Oracle is the mother, then, speaking in Christian terms, Seti is the holy spirit?
What does one make of Seti, the arab girl? If the Architect is the father and the Oracle is the mother, then, speaking in Christian terms, Seti is the holy spirit?
#150
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally posted by Rypro 525
i personally thought this was the most violent one. i mean there's actually some blood and guts in this movie. there's none in number 2 and some briefly in no 1.
i personally thought this was the most violent one. i mean there's actually some blood and guts in this movie. there's none in number 2 and some briefly in no 1.



