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Just Saw Matrix: Revolutions (Thoughts)

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Just Saw Matrix: Revolutions (Thoughts)

Old 11-06-03, 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Daytrip
what are you talking about? this movie was ALL action, there was more time in fight scenes than there was in dialogue
The action was there, but it was NOT bad ass. Reloaded at least had the freeway scene.
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Old 11-06-03, 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by jhansla
I thought it was good movie up untill the end, which I need explaining

Spoiler:
As I saw it in the orginal, people were getting plugged into the Matrix to look for the one. Now wasn't the one supposed to stop the machines from growing humans and using them to how they need. It ends where there is peace but how can this be when the machines are still growing humans?

Spoiler:
at the end, the oracle asks the architect if the rest of the people will be freed. he answers something like, yes, the ones that want to be
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Old 11-06-03, 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by mhadlock
The action was there, but it was NOT bad ass. Reloaded at least had the freeway scene.
Yea sure it had the freeway scene and that's about all it had. Reloaded had a weak story and many of the scenes, especially the ones in Zion, dragged on and hurt the movie. Revolutions had slightly less impressive action scenes than the freeway scene, but it had a better plot and action from beginning to end. I can't believe people are saying that Reloaded had more action than Revolutions, that is just not the case.
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Old 11-06-03, 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Rypro 525
i personally thought this was the most violent one. i mean there's actually some blood and guts in this movie. there's none in number 2 and some briefly in no 1.
Not to mention the very noticeable titty twisting.
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Old 11-06-03, 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by mhadlock
The action was there, but it was NOT bad ass. Reloaded at least had the freeway scene.
Actually I thought the action in Revolutions was better for one simple reason - tension.

In Reloaded, there was no tension of anyone getting hurt or dying for that matter. No one seemed to be in any REAL danger to me. Even in the first film, Neo and Morpheus got beat up and that added tension to his rescue. That's why to me Reloaded seemed like one long Roadrunner cartoon. I have to admit though that the motorcycle stunts were really cool.

In Revolutions, people were getting killed by the sentinels. And, if you have seen the movie, people can get hurt and die. That gave tension to the action scenes and kept my attention. Maybe the fighting wasn't as balletic or artsy as Reloaded but I'd rather have a down-and-dirty fight than a highly choreographed one. So, Revolutions delievered on the action (although not really mind-blowing) while the action in Reloaded was mostly eye candy (watching through sickly-green colored glasses).
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Old 11-06-03, 02:46 PM
  #181  
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Originally posted by PalmerJoss
Agreed. Although I do think that
Spoiler:
Sati has taken on the role of The One now that Neo is gone.
Let me take a swing at this, my ideas are still rough around the edges, but here's an early draft of some of my thoughts on the subject...

Spoiler:
There is no "One" now. If the "One" returns, it will be in the future following yet another prophecy by the Oracle.

Sati represents the gift that the "One" gave man and machine. She represents the new agreement (covenant) between man and machine, hence the rainbow colored sky created by her(refer to Genesis and Noah's ark.) She was scheduled to be deleted because the mainframe did not have a purpose for her, the people in Zion were scheduled to be "deleted" because they no longer served the mainframe's purpose, but the mainframe was threatened by Smith's viral nature, Neo used that as a bargaining chip and the mainframe has now agreed to allow man and machine to choose their purpose, to live free, to choose.

Neo is dead in the form we came to know him. He will never return in that form (much as the Oracle had to change form), but part of him (his spirit, residual digital image, or systemic anomally) likely still exists somewhere in the main frame's code. That bit of code may return in the future, if necessary...

Earlier I posted my observation on the color schemes, green=in matrix, blue=in real world, while the end of the movie had no color skewing. While the rainbow sky is symbolic of the new covenant and Neo's sacrifice, I think the color scheme change has deeper meaning. I think it is representative of a change in the entire way the Matrix will be structured, it will be a world of man and machine, a Utopia where they are both free to live, come and go freely. Choice will always be present, for man and AI, and many will choose to live within the Matrix, whether it's because the virtual world is more appealing than the scorched sky of Machine City or the cramped caves of Zion, or it's simply because many are like Cypher and prefer the comfort of the Matrix to the alternative...


Sorry for the ramblings as my thoughts take shape...
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Old 11-06-03, 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
Not to mention the very noticeable titty twisting.
At least the Wachowskis had the good mind to keep that S&M rave very short.
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Old 11-06-03, 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by mhadlock
The action was there, but it was NOT bad ass. Reloaded at least had the freeway scene.
no offense but the freeway scene didn't even come close to the Zion scene, not by a long shot
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Old 11-06-03, 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by Daytrip
but that gives Sati a purpose where she had none before
After Neo's deal with Deus Ex Machina Sati does not require purpose to exist. That's part of the point, machines (the Architect) are single-minded in their logic, you must have purpose or you are a waste and must be deleted.

That is not the thinking of man. You may or may not have purpose. You may have purpose and not even know. You may have no purpose. But you are permitted to exist regardless.

Pre-Revolution anything without purpose was destroyed, even if it was sentient and wished to live. Post-revolution you have choice. You have freedom. You control your destiny. Not some machine running by an inflexible set of rules...
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Old 11-06-03, 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Daytrip
no offense but the freeway scene didn't even come close to the Zion scene, not by a long shot
I disagree. I find real stunts (even when enhanced by CGI) are much more exciting than pure CGI. The Zion scene was pure CGI.
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Old 11-06-03, 03:01 PM
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I agree the movie was good. I also believe that, yes, Neo is now dead. Like some have stated, him and Smith balanced out. Neo + Smith = 0 (-1 + 1 = 0). I also believe that the peace between the machines and the humans will last for as long as the HUMANS let it. When the Oracle asks the Architect if he promises to release the humans who wish to be free, he replies "Of course, what do you think I am, human?". There in lies the key to the future. Even though the Machines have, with out a doubt, the ability to crush the humans if they wish with their sheer power and numbers, it won't happen. The Machines are now programmed to operate in a peaceful harmony with the humans. Now, this takes us full circle...

If you remember back to the Animatrix: The 2nd Renaissance Parts 1&2, it was the Humans who abused the machines. And when the Humans realized that the Machines were powerful to overtake the planet, they tried to wipe them out. This was when the Machines rebelled and took over. Not that they are once agian in peace, it will be man's choice that will once again doom him...
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Old 11-06-03, 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by jim_cook87
I disagree. I find real stunts (even when enhanced by CGI) are much more exciting than pure CGI. The Zion scene was pure CGI.
we'll have to agree to disagree then.........the pure scope of the Zion fight made it much more impressive IMO. in the freeway scene a few cars flipped and a two semi's hit each other. in Zion hundreds of people die at the hands of at least 250,000 sentinels. you have a bunch of mech's running around shredding the place with fire, you have the Hammer flying in to try and save the day, then you have the feeling that there is no way zion will survive. in the freeway scene a few Oldsmobile cars where trashed and there was a pretty cool semi wreck.........doesn't ever make me think anyone is going to die.
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Old 11-06-03, 03:10 PM
  #188  
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There is no -1 in the machine world.

It's all 1s and 0s baby.
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Old 11-06-03, 03:13 PM
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that's true until programs start doing something they aren't supposed to be doing like smith...........he causes problems in even the most simplistic equations
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Old 11-06-03, 03:14 PM
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The new Oracle was decent but I would've liked the movie a lot more if they had been able to make it with the late Glorai Foster. I groaned when the Oracle offered them candy - it just wasn't the same coming from the new actress.
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Old 11-06-03, 03:18 PM
  #191  
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Originally posted by SirPablo
When the Oracle asks the Architect if he promises to release the humans who wish to be free, he replies "Of course, what do you think I am, human?". There in lies the key to the future. Even though the Machines have, with out a doubt, the ability to crush the humans if they wish with their sheer power and numbers, it won't happen.
"What do you think I am, human?" was his answer to "Do I have your word?" I took that to mean one of two things. Either he is incapable of giving his word because promise is a human concept, and he will do whatever it takes to keep the equation in balance. Or the decision is set in stone, since flip-flopping is a human concept. There are two sides to every coin. That's what made the ending work for me.
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Old 11-06-03, 03:37 PM
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My review and thoughts of the Matrix Revolutions:

Spoiler:
The first movie was new and exciting. The stop motion action sequences were something that nobody had ever seen. There wasn't too much CGI and all the fighting was done on wires and looked very real. Matrix Reloaded followed the same mold, but introduced the CGI Agent Smith cloaning battle in the city park. In my opinion this was one of the biggest problems with Reloaded next to the weak plot.

Fast forward to Revolutions and you'd think that more new and inovative ideas would come into this movie. Its the last movie in their series and the subject matter is a world which almost anything is possible, so why not show us something even more revolutionary than the fast movie? Instead we get treated to a horrible script and tons of CGI effects. At first when I saw the Zion battle I wasn't sure if I was watching ID4 or the Matrix. We had all these new and pointless characters with big moments in the movie. Like the hispanic guy who was driving the robot which the boy takes control of when he dies. Can anyone say total Randy Quiad type character from ID4?

The action sequences in this movie were pointless and too long. The first action scene in the Frenchman's lobby was just like the first movie in the lobby of the office, except we have seen all those moves before, like Triinity's side cartwheel and the ducking behind concrete posts to dodge bullets. The Zion and Smith/Neo battles are too long and not interesting at all to watch. Many of the moments between Smith and Neo in the final battle reminded me of Superman IV, and thats being kind. We saw CGI buildings break while two CGI characters flew through the air tackling each other.

If anything what the brothers needed to deliver was an unconventional ended for an unconventional movie. What we got instead was the typical Star Wars movie. Skywalker Neo must face Emperor Smith at the end to bring peace to the Galaxy. I could sit here for hours rattling off the similarities between Star Wars and Matrix Revolutions.

In the end we got exactly what we hoped this movie wouldn't be. A religious computer movie. Ever since I heard Neo being called "The One" in the first Matrix, I was hoping they didn't turn this into "Hackers Meet Jesus", and thats exactly what it was. Bright lights at the end, one man dying for peace, and being displayed on an altar/slab at the end of the movie. I thought the creation of Smith by the Oracle was an interesting twist, but really never explained enough. If we weren't going to really get an ending with any answers being solved, why not just make the whole thing a dream?

Last edited by Furio; 11-06-03 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 11-06-03, 03:45 PM
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The ending is fine except that it's not the resolution that was expected.

Okay, in the first movie, it's mentioned that man and machine are at war. Fair enough. The reasons for this war are not clearly stated, but the impression is given that man is trying to free his fellow man by destroying the machines which enslave them. Thus the goal would be to destroy the machines and to free mankind.

But the third movie didn't end that way.

That whole impression of the reason behind the war turns out to be not the case. The real reasons for the war are explained in the Animatrix video. Man abused the machines and tried to destroy them when they revolted. Machine enslaved man in order to survive only, sort of thing. Okay. Thus the resolution as shown by the third movie is that a peace is brokered. Machine will free men who wish to be freed, and basically we have an uneasy truce going. Man was the real aggressor in the war, and machine was doing defense (and the best defense is a good offense). Man is pretty throughly beat down and not in a position to be the aggressor anymore, really. Not for a while, anyway.

Anyway, it's kind of a let down ending because there's no closure. An uneasy peace is reached and fighting stops. But the impression that the first movie gave for the fighting (free mankind) isn't accomplished. This is likely what upset most people about the ending.
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Old 11-06-03, 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Furio
My review and thoughts of the Matrix Revolutions:

Spoiler:
The first movie was new and exciting. The stop motion action sequences were something that nobody had ever seen.
...

The first action scene in the Frenchman's lobby was just like the first movie in the lobby of the office, except we have seen all those moves before, like Triinity's side cartwheel and the ducking behind concrete posts to dodge bullets.
I saw this more as a nod to people's favorite moments of the first Matrix, rather than a lack a creativity.
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Old 11-06-03, 04:21 PM
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My thoughts on what other people have said...

WARNING!
WARNING!
WARNING!
WARNING!
WARNING!

MAJOR UNMARKED SPOILERS AHEAD!


Originally posted by RocShemp
Duh! But seriously, what the heck is the source of his amazing abilities then? Was he just some human that the Architect "programed" with these abilities in order to be a sort of "False One" (like the previous five mentioned in Reloaded) but was pulled out of the Matrix prematurely by Morpheus (thinking this was indeed the One) and thus he was not programed with his intended purpose (to return to the Source and reboot the Matrix)? Or is he just some sort of fluke?
I think you misunderstood the ending of Reloaded. Neo was the One all along, but the One was not originally intended to be the person who would end the war, but the person who would choose the inhabitants of the new Zion when the old Zion is destroyed. The powers he has are because he is the One, and there is no concept of a "False One", but Neo saving humanity is not related to him being the One.

Originally posted by Otto
Now, like I said, this movie didn't answer some things:
a) Why can Neo control or destroy the machines in the real world?
b) Why can he see this fire type deal when he's blinded?
c) How the hell did he get his conciousness knocked into the Train Station in the beginning without any connection to the Matrix or the machines at all?
This wasn't explained thoroughly, but the clues were certainly there. My understanding was that something actually changed in his brain that meant he permanently had a connection to the Matrix. Not a full connection, but enough that he could sense the machines (which was visualised in the form of golden light - think Daredevil) and control them. I think him being in the train station - a sort of limbo - is related to him being in limbo between reality and the Matrix (not sure about that though).

Originally posted by jhansla
As I saw it in the orginal, people were getting plugged into the Matrix to look for the one. Now wasn't the one supposed to stop the machines from growing humans and using them to how they need. It ends where there is peace but how can this be when the machines are still growing humans? Surely there had to be a winner either the humans or the machines. And what about Agent Smith? It made it feel like the whole trilogy was about destroying Agent Smith because thats all they gained in the end. It was a stupid ending because now they are right back at the beginning just without Agent Smith
As the Architect's speech in Reloaded made clear, some people subconciously do want to leave the Matrix but most people subconciously don't want to leave the Matrix. It would be silly to destroy the Matrix, and remove all the humans from it, when if given the choice most people would rather remain ignorant and stay.

Also, there didn't need to be a "winner" of this war, and if there had been it would have betrayed the idea that humans and machines were both responsible for the war (see "The Second Renaissance" parts 1+2). Instead, there was peace, because Neo saved the machines and the humans from being killed by Smith. How long the peace will last is unknown though...

Originally posted by GSimmons10
Neo is definitely The One. He fullfilled the Prophecy by ending the war.
As I understand it, the prophecy that he would end the war had nothing to do with him being the One. The point of the One was not to end the war - otherwise, the war would have ended in one of the earlier incarnations of the Matrix. However, he is definitely the One. The Architect as much as told him so.

I might be misunderstanding... so I'm open to debate

Anyway, I loved the movie overall. Very different to Reloaded, but still very good. I'm not sure I liked the slight lack of closure at the end though. I'd rather they'd made it so the peace would definitely be a long-term one.

Last edited by Philip Reuben; 11-06-03 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 11-06-03, 04:23 PM
  #196  
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this is page 5 for me. i'm sure it's more for others with smaller monitor resolutions.

could we please stop with the friggin' spoiler tags already?
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Old 11-06-03, 04:29 PM
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Spoiler:
no
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Old 11-06-03, 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Rogue588
could we please stop with the friggin' spoiler tags already?
Makes sense I guess... I'll edit my post to remove them.
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Old 11-06-03, 04:34 PM
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a lot of people jump to the last page and just start reading..........what's so hard about highlighting spoiler tags?
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Old 11-06-03, 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Philip Reuben
As I understand it, the prophecy that he would end the war had nothing to do with him being the One. The point of the One was not to end the war - otherwise, the war would have ended in one of the earlier incarnations of the Matrix. However, he is definitely the One. The Architect as much as told him so.[/B]
I think you are assuming that in the previous iterations the prophecy regarding the One also said he was going to end the war. Previous iterations the Oracle may have prophesied that the One would "save Zion" but make no claim about ending the war...
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