Same reaction - hillarious bordering pathetic. Which unfortunately has also been the trademark of this entire war.


I do. The BDA and those who represent it will voice their opinions proportionally, depending on how they position themselves on the market after the war is over. Hence, SONY won't have to be gracious, the market will force them to share.

Pro-B

Sorry, but I don't look at things only from the short-term, obsessive-compulsive, "give it to me right now" perspective. I want to know that a format will be viable enough in five years to still have new titles released on it. Losing $450M/year isn't the path to that end.

No, they have not. Don't tie up promotions with MSPR to back up your faulty argument.

No!!


I'll let RoboDad respond to this as it appears that you are "talking" to him.

Pro-B

You can spin it any way you want. Fact is last year I bought many HD titles because of B1G1 deals and took advantage of a couple of 5 free movie deals. The end of the war has ended those deals and that means higher cost as a BD owner.

This year the only deal I got was a free Sharp BD player and honestly I'm ready to give the piece of shit back to the store. It is obvious why the profile 1.0 players are given away free.

The recent B2G1 at Amazon was hopeful, but the BD companies need to lower their prices for the catalog titles. I'm not paying $20 and up for most catalog titles. I will pick up the 1 or 2 must have titles a month and that is nothing compared to my consumption of BD movies in 2007.

Actually, calling the end of a promotion a price increase is the only spin I see going on here.

There isn't any spin here - promotions and MSPR are two different entities.

If you are having trouble grasping why then that is another issue altogether.

Pro-B

Give me a break.

No one is suggesting that MSRPs have gone up. The FACT (I know, word YOU are known to hate) is that last year, the AVERAGE price paid for BDs AT RETAIL was WAY lower than it currently is. This is an indisputable FACT, and I defy ANYONE to show how things are less expensive, ignoring the MSRPs, this year rather than last.

Now this could be the end of the big shopping season, and the normal late winter consumer lull.

Or it could be a shift in the economic strategy of the various BD groups now that they don't have to deal with a rival format in the same category.

Time will tell, but don't act like you know everything. You ARE spinning the facts.

There's no need to call anyone hilarious bordering pathetic. Let's keep it civil. It's hard to doubt that for many people, Blu-ray is Sony's baby.

Ok...This is starting to get old. I don't know how many times we have to get into the "HDM prices are going to increase vs. prices decrease" discussion. People aren't going to change their opinions about this (either way)...they don't want any information...just affirmation. Their minds are made up...

Since it seems that the HDM format war is going to be over soon, movie fans can either get there HD movies from BD...or find an alternative route (PPV, VOD, etc). These are our choices...no matter what happens with prices. I suggest we all get back to enjoying the movies and just see what happens with pricing. I'm sure we all agree that lower prices would be better for all of us. Will this happen...who knows?

Let's try and get back on topic...rumors and articles about the current state of HD DVD.

1. No more 5 free by mail = Price Increase (no more $100 or so of free movies)
2. No more BOGOs = Less reason to buy movies = Less Blu-rays sold per week/month
3. Lowering SA prices (1400/BDP-300) across the board and then raising them weeks later ($269-$299 at Amazon, Best Buy, CC, etc) = Price increase
4. No more free Blu-ray players with TV purchase = Less Blu-ray players in homes

The day Toshiba says its over, the BDA sure as hell better respond with not only price drops to woo HD DVD owners, but release dates and prices for their upcoming players that we have not heard anything about since CES 1.5 months ago.

(1) If BOGO ends, then yes, you can say that the prices have gone up.

(2) If they don't have another 5-free promotion, or something else to offset the purchase price of a player, then you can say that the prices have gone up.

Here's to hoping that neither is true.

Well said. It is safe to say that everyone has an opinion on this one way or indifferent.

Let's revisit this topic in a few months when there is some data to back up an increase or a decrease.

Too much wheel spinning.

To be fair, in January and February of 2007 there weren't any BOGOs or 5 free disc promotions either. And there certainly was a format war in full tilt. The fact that there was a rash of BOGOs in late 2007, doesn't change the fact that for the majority of HDM's existence there weren't any BOGOs. Or it doesn't chnage the fact that even DVD offered 5 free promo discs once upon a time and those stopped as well. It's hard to call any of thse actions as price increases as they aren't the common state for HDM and aren't intended to be anything more than temporary promotions.

Agreed.

Let me also say that as a whole, from inception, prices are right around steady. The average price paid per unit is just about at the same level it was when the first "Get 3's" then "Get 5's" and finally BOGOs came along.

Without these deals, then the average cost is more than it was three months ago, but not really more than it was 15 months ago.

Also for the record, I do not know where I stand on whether prices will go up or down. I think they will pretty much stay as they are now.

Although, I prefer no promotions.
(1) Instead of having BOGO sales, make a permanent price drop. A $19.99 MSRP sounds good.
(2) Don't offer 5 free movies. Instead, slash player prices by $100 (~ cost of 5 movies).

Make the consumers feel that the death of HD DVD (thus having only one next generation HDM format) is indeed good for the consumers.

As of 1/4/2008, there was no need for a Blu-ray BOGO. They won. HD DVD could not come back unless they bought up exclusive studios. No need to run a BOGO when you won. Before that, dating back to April/May of 2007, there were nearly weekly Blu-ray BOGOs going on at numerous stores. A quick search of this forum or DVD Bargains would show this to be true. The only BOGOs we have seen since 1/4/2008 have been on the HD DVD side (aside from Amazon, who usually runs BOGOs or sales of some sort for both formats at the same time)

As for the 5 free, HD DVD group has been doing that since...March (?) of 2007, and Blu-ray quickly jumped on board as well shortly after. If Warner was still neutral I would expect the 5 free to still be going on for Blu-ray. But at this point, being the winner, why? If people want HD movies, they will have to buy Blu-ray.

As Ive said before shortly after Warner went Blu, the BDA needs to really see DVD as a threat if they want to succeed. They need the 5 free NOW. Why spend $300+ on a Blu-ray player when you can get an $50 up-converting player with 100k+ movies available from all studios? Those 5 free help push Blu-ray SA sales. Its a great way to go "Well honey, lets get the Blu-ray player because we get 5 free movies by mail, and look, they have POTC!". Its an added value. The BDA better start getting cooking on tons of catalog announcements, feature packed day and dates, BOGOs, and whatever else to help woo people into buying a Blu-ray VS. up-converter.

Great idea. Especially on the lowering the price on the players. I returned all but one of the free HD DVDs I got on promo back to WalMart for store credit. I think a $200 player is a better deal than a $300 player with five free movies (unless of course you could pick any films you wanted).

The problem with BOGO is the artificial lowering of the MSRP. They got people used to the sub-$15 price point, and now it will be difficult to get that Genie back in the bottle.

Pro-B

I agree with this paragraph 100%. Great stuff...

Where in that post is he talking about MSRP?

I am not saying I agree with what he's saying, but I don't disagree completely.

Owning BD in 2008 (so far) is more expensive than owning BD in 2007. If that is his point he's right.

If he extrapolating that to mean that for all of 2008 it will be more, then he's just guessing, and presenting it as fact, and he would be wrong for doing so.

Just as it is disingenuous for you to sit behind a chart of MSRPs when you know damn well that a vast majority of that 6-40 spread before Warner picked a side was built on the backs of promotional offers (both sides) and that the vast majority of HDM titles were purchased below MSRP, sometimes at nearly a quarter of MSRP.

I will say that my meager 18 title HD DVD collection has three discs purchased "off deal" and those were three that my wife bought me for Christmas. Had I any input into these purchases these would have been bought on one deal or another as well.

I would assume the story would be the same for the majority of BD owners as well.

The important issue is cost to consumers and those have gone up. The end of promotions and discs being priced closer to MSRP is a price increase to the consumers buying the discs. It really isn't that hard to understand.

MSRP refers to Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price, the BDA houses the manufacturer he talks about. To me his point is clear.

Pro-B

I just have one question for all of the people crying foul, and labeling the lack of a promotion as a price increase. The tone of many of your posts implies that many of you really believe that prices will really increase from this point, going forward. So here is my question. Do you honestly believe that Blu-ray player and software prices in December 2008 will be higher (for equivalent products and features) than they are today (when there are no BOGOs or free disc promotions in effect)?

Guys, nobody answered my question from a few pages ago. Will Toshiba still fulfill the pending HD-DVD MIR flicks? I can't imagine they wouldn't, but I'd be terribly pissed if they didn't deliver.

I can't wait to see the back and forth for the next 3 pages...

yay!

Seriously, prices may have gone up now because of the lack of bogo's and free titles...but how many consumers (other than us) really paid attention to these sales.

If Best Buy is the leading HDM retailer, I'm thinking most consumer's were already paying close to MSRP.

Trust me...i want the BOGO's and free discs. I bought my PS3 too early and and I wasn't eligible for the free discs. I did get 5 free with my A2 though...so I can't complain too much.