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Old 02-18-08 | 04:29 AM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by sracer
Let's keep it real. The primary reason why people want Toshiba to produce Blu-ray players is the expectation that they will produce combo-players. If Toshiba took a BR-only stand on producing players, would you be so interested in seeing Toshiba make those players?
Absolutely... I'm a big Toshiba fan, and would most certainly give first consideration to Toshiba for any player in my price range, or slightly above it.
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Old 02-18-08 | 05:03 AM
  #252  
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"This week we will dismantle our HD-DVD lines and will be adding new equipment to bolster our Blue-ray manufacturing," said Hansen explaining, "Despite our name and preference, we always offered HD-DVDs as a service to our customers. Now we will reconfigure part of that equipment to make DVDs and CDs," said Hansen. "The indie film companies moved quicker than the studios and gradually stopped mixed orders in favor of Blu-ray late last year."

Hansen explained "They preferred the larger capacity and full 1080p quality of the Blu-ray discs going forward. We saw this but since I have been saying HD-DVD was DOA for four years, we still had to wait for the industry to catch up to the inevitable. HD-DVD is dead, all that is left is the burial."


Yeah, they sound partial. Wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Hansen refused HD DVD orders. Note the underlined statement. Gosh, I didn't know my HD DVDs weren't 1080p.

And of course, another reference to capacity.

Jesus, you can't make this shit up. Oh wait, I guess you can.

Looking further into Mr. Hansen's comments, I see from 01-07-2008, he says this:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/01/prweb604901.htm

Originally Posted by Erik Hansen of BlueRay Tech
In the U.S., WB sold 60 percent Blu-ray, which has a higher 1080p resolution and more disc capacity, and 40 percent HD-DVD, which has 1081i, considered slightly inferior. A look at the Sunday paper electronics store ads for HDTVs clearly shows 1080p to be a key selling point.
I think 1081i was a typo. Coming from him, I'm not so sure, though. In any case, this is the kind of misinformation and maybe even disinformation (given he's smart enough to understand) which is being spouted to unsuspecting and uninformed HD consumers.

Originally Posted by Erik Hansen of BlueRay Tech
"2008 will mark the end of the format war. Consumers won't buy the dying HD-DVD format at any price. Those who say it will survive, much less thrive, do not understand technology. HD-DVD isn't even true hi-def. It isn't even 1080p. We must get back to business and make movies, not war."
Yowza. HD DVD isn't even true High-Def. Isn't even 1080p. Wow.

The only thing I can think of is he is referring to some HD DVD players only having 1080i as an output. But he doesn't seem to explain himself.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 02-18-08 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 02-18-08 | 09:04 AM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by jiggawhat
I'm just glad it's finally over.
I don't really feel like much of a winner. I was buying a ton of discs last year on both formats because of all the deals and I have yet to make an Amazon order in 2008. I have gotten lucky and stumbled across some cheap used BDs at Gamestop a couple of times, but if BD victory means higher prices I would just have preferred the competition to continue.
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Old 02-18-08 | 09:32 AM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by darkside
I don't really feel like much of a winner.
Well, there's the rub. No consumer should feel like a winner. It is the emotional investment in these formats (that would result in a sense of "winning" or "losing") that companies wanted but served no purpose for consumers themselves.


Originally Posted by darkside
I was buying a ton of discs last year on both formats because of all the deals and I have yet to make an Amazon order in 2008. I have gotten lucky and stumbled across some cheap used BDs at Gamestop a couple of times, but if BD victory means higher prices I would just have preferred the competition to continue.
The assumption that the end to the format war means higher Blu-ray prices is rooted in sour grapes by the HD-DVD camp. With HD-DVD out of the way, Blu-ray still needs to compete and contend against the established standard and leader... DVD.

People need to understand that the consumer landscape of a format war is far different than when there is a single standard. (Some still need to understand why their belief that both formats could continue to be viable was mistaken) Many companies and consumers alike sat on the sidelines waiting for one format to emerge as the standard. Now that there is, people (like myself) are getting into it that wouldn't have done so before. Companies who didn't previously manufacture players, now will.

There is going to be pressure and competition to produce Blu-ray players with greater functionality and less expensively. Player prices are going to drop.

Now that there is a single hi-def format, disc pressing plants can press higher volumes of the single format. (in addition to SD-DVD). Companies won't have to stock and inventory duplicate titles in 2 hi-def formats.

Disc prices will drop simply on that alone. Add to that the incentive for these companies to re-sell these titles in HD, and they will need to close the price gap between SD-DVD and Blu-ray.
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Old 02-18-08 | 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by darkside
I don't really feel like much of a winner. I was buying a ton of discs last year on both formats because of all the deals and I have yet to make an Amazon order in 2008. I have gotten lucky and stumbled across some cheap used BDs at Gamestop a couple of times, but if BD victory means higher prices I would just have preferred the competition to continue.

By the same token, it is really unfair to compare the deals in November and December to today. November and December are huge spending consumer months and everyone's trying to push their product for the holidays. Yes, the format war helped, as both sides were vying for that extra push to sway WB. So maybe there were even more deals around. But its generally a hot bed of sales in those months. Corrsespondingly, January and such are notoriously slow months, particularly for movies as all the big releases come right before the holidays.
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Old 02-18-08 | 10:11 AM
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Toshibia Stock goes up after rumors of it stopping their HD-DVD players...


http://www.forbes.com/markets/commod...8markets1.html


If Toshibia stops making HD-DVD players it should release Paramount Pictures and Universal Pictures from there contract with HD-DVD...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1203..._us_whats_news
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Old 02-18-08 | 10:37 AM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by tonymontana313
Dude, Bay knows more about video encodes than either you or I will ever know in a lifetime.
When did Michael Bay become an expert on video encodes? Michael Bay isn't a video engineer. He hands his movie to someone and says, "Here, make it look pretty. If you don't, I'll eat your fucking heart. I'm Michael fucking Bay!!"
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Old 02-18-08 | 10:41 AM
  #258  
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Old 02-18-08 | 11:38 AM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by Iron_Giant
Toshibia Stock goes up after rumors of it stopping their HD-DVD players...


http://www.forbes.com/markets/commod...8markets1.html


If Toshibia stops making HD-DVD players it should release Paramount Pictures and Universal Pictures from there contract with HD-DVD...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1203..._us_whats_news
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=222
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Old 02-18-08 | 01:25 PM
  #260  
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http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/18/t...row-stop-sale/

Toshiba expected to announce death of HD DVD tomorrow, stop sales by March

Posted Feb 18th 2008 2:01PM by Ryan Block

Despite Red's inability to make any real public statement, Japanese publication Nikkei has it that Toshiba president Atsutoshi Nishida will be announcing the final discontinuation of HD DVD tomorrow, as well as halted sales of hardware and media by March (as in days from now). Apparently Toshiba will pull its units from retail shelves, but has no intention to give burned early adopters any refunds (no kidding?); it sounds like the ceasefire will include the bare PC drives as well, so those hoping to keep using HD DVD as a personal data storage medium probably won't have much luck. Apparently the announcement will come alongside Toshiba's plans to build new semiconductor fabs, which we're sure they'll try to spin as an advancement that far overshadows the hill of beans (read: hundreds of millions) they've lost in the format war.
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Old 02-18-08 | 01:28 PM
  #261  
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080218/...te/toshiba_dvd

Sony's Blu-ray DVD format could prevail

By YURI KAGEYAMA, AP Business Writer
Mon Feb 18, 8:01 AM ET

TOKYO - Sony's Blu-ray technology is emerging as the likely winner in the format battle for the next generation of DVD players after Toshiba appeared ready to ditch its HD DVD business.

Such a move would help consumers know which system to invest in and would likely boost sales in Blu-ray gadgets, analysts say. But it will disappoint the 1 million people around the world estimated by Toshiba who have already bought HD DVD players.

Toshiba Corp. said Monday no decision has been made but acknowledged it had started a review of its HD DVD strategy. The comments follow a flurry of weekend Japanese media reports that the company was close to pulling the plug on the business.

A company official, speaking on condition of anonymity because she isn't authorized to speak on the matter, said a board meeting could be held as soon as Tuesday, where a decision is likely.

HD DVD has been competing against Blu-ray disc technology, backed by Sony Corp., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., which makes Panasonic brand products, five major Hollywood movie studios and others.

Both formats deliver crisp, clear high-definition pictures and sound, but they are incompatible with each other, and neither plays on older DVD players. HD DVD was touted as being cheaper because it was more similar to previous video technology, while Blu-ray boasted bigger recording capacity. Both formats play on high-definition TVs.

Only one video format has been expected to emerge as the victor, much like VHS trumped Sony's Betamax in the video format battle of the 1980s.

This time, however, it appears Sony will end up on the winning side.

"If true, this will be good news for the next-generation DVD industry in clearing up the confusion for consumers because of the format competition that had curbed buying," said Koya Tabata, electronics analyst at Credit Suisse in Tokyo. "This will work toward a profit boost for Sony."

The reasons behind Blu-ray's apparent triumph over HD DVD are complex, analysts said, as marketing, management maneuvers and other factors are believed to have played into the shift to Blu-ray's favor that became more decisive during the critical holiday shopping season.

Recently, the Blu-ray disc format has been gaining market share, especially in Japan. A study on fourth quarter sales last year by market researcher BCN Inc. found that by unit volume, Blu-ray made up 96 percent of Japanese sales.

American movie studios also were increasingly lining up behind the Blu-ray standard.

Last month, Warner Bros. Entertainment decided to release movie discs only in the Blu-ray format, joining Sony Pictures, Walt Disney Co. and News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox. That left only Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures and General Electric Co.'s Universal Pictures as exclusive supporters of HD DVD.

On Friday, Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the largest U.S. retailer, said it will sell only Blu-ray DVDs and hardware. That announcement came five days after Netflix Inc. said it will cease carrying rentals in HD DVD.

Several major American retailers have made similar decisions, including Target Corp. and Blockbuster Inc.

Despite the reports, Toshiba's stock soared 5.7 percent to 829 yen ($7.69) in Tokyo as investors cheered the likely decision as lessening the potential damage in losses in the HD DVD operations, despite the blow to Toshiba's prestige.

Sony shares rose 1.0 percent to 4,900 yen ($45.45). The Tokyo-based manufacturer declined comment on the reports about HD DVD. Sony also said it did not have numbers on how many Blu-ray players had been sold globally, or a number for Sony brand Blu-ray machines sold.

Adding to Blu-ray's momentum was the gradual increase in sales of Sony's PlayStation 3 home video-game console, which also works as a Blu-ray player. Sony has sold 10.5 million PS3 machines worldwide since the machine went on sale late 2006.

But PS3 sales have trailed the blockbuster Wii machine from Nintendo Co., and the game machine wasn't widely seen as that critical to the video format battle.

Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360 game machine can play HD DVD movies, but the drive had to be bought separately, and its proliferation is believed to be limited. Toshiba said such players are included in the overall tally of 1 million HD DVD players sold so far.

Kazuharu Miura, an analyst at Daiwa Institute of Research in Tokyo, said the final holdout for HD DVD may come in personal computers, if Microsoft decides to continue to push HD DVD. But once the balance tilts in favor of one format, then the domination tends to become final, he said.

"You've seen this happen before, as in Macintosh vs. Windows," he said. "The content makers are going to choose one format, and the stores are going to want to stack their shelves with the dominant format, too."

Toshiba is expected to focus its resources on its other businesses, including computer chip production, such as flash-memory, which are used in digital cameras and cell phones.

The Nikkei, Japan's top business newspaper, reported in its Monday's editions that Toshiba plans to invest as much as 1.8 trillion yen ($16.7 billion) in two plants in Japan for its flash memory business for fiscal 2008, starting April 1. Toshiba said no decision has been made.
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Old 02-18-08 | 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sracer
The assumption that the end to the format war means higher Blu-ray prices is rooted in sour grapes by the HD-DVD camp. With HD-DVD out of the way, Blu-ray still needs to compete and contend against the established standard and leader... DVD.
Didn't Sony stop their 5 free disc promotion?
Didn't Netflix say that they would consider raising prices now that the format war has been decided?
Sony hardly believes they are competing with Microsoft and Nintendo. What makes you think for a second they believe that they are competing with anyone anymore?
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Old 02-18-08 | 01:36 PM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by sracer

The assumption that the end to the format war means higher Blu-ray prices is rooted in sour grapes by the HD-DVD camp. With HD-DVD out of the way, Blu-ray still needs to compete and contend against the established standard and leader... DVD. .


Pro-B
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Old 02-18-08 | 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Draven
Didn't Sony stop their 5 free disc promotion?
Didn't Netflix say that they would consider raising prices now that the format war has been decided?
Sony hardly believes they are competing with Microsoft and Nintendo. What makes you think for a second they believe that they are competing with anyone anymore?
If the BDA truly wants BD to succeed they will have to steadily drop prices...or all of this was for nothing. Most of us are fine with BD becoming a niche product, but I would think the BDA is hoping for BD to overtake SD DVD. That in itself is enough incentive to drop prices when feasible.

If SD DVD is truly not looked at as competition then the BDA really believes BD is just an enthusiast format and nothing else...I don't think this is the case.

I would be really surprised if hardware and software prices start to increase when BD becomes the lone HD Media format...it just doesn't make any business sense to all of the sudden price themselves out of the market (even more). People will just ignore HDM more than they already are and continue to buy and rent SD DVD.
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Old 02-18-08 | 01:40 PM
  #265  
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Originally Posted by Draven
Didn't Sony stop their 5 free disc promotion?
Yes, and...you thought Sony would be giving you free discs for as long as they sell hardware?

Originally Posted by Draven
Didn't Netflix say that they would consider raising prices now that the format war has been decided?
Your point again? Last year Blockbuster raised the prices for online rental plans in the mids of the war. Your read on it?

Originally Posted by Draven
Sony hardly believes they are competing with Microsoft and Nintendo. What makes you think for a second they believe that they are competing with anyone anymore?
What makes me believe that they will compete is the fact that the BDA isn't SONY. It has been said a number of times on this board and I find it hilarious that over and over again SONY is the only name being mentioned.

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Old 02-18-08 | 01:42 PM
  #266  
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
When did Michael Bay become an expert on video encodes? Michael Bay isn't a video engineer. He hands his movie to someone and says, "Here, make it look pretty. If you don't, I'll eat your fucking heart. I'm Michael fucking Bay!!"
This is one of the funniest things I've read on this forum in a long time (long time lurker prior to joining).

Thank you...
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Old 02-18-08 | 01:45 PM
  #267  
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The Sony 5-free BD offer was set to expire on 1/31 regardless of what happened on the format war front, and the expiration date was set well before the Warner announcement.
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Old 02-18-08 | 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sracer
With HD-DVD out of the way, Blu-ray still needs to compete and contend against the established standard and leader... DVD.
It would be easier for Sony to just pay all the production companies a bunch of money to cease production of DVDs, so they would have no competition at all!

Seriously though, I don't see that BR will be competing with DVD at this point in time (or even in the near future), as the overwhelming majority of home video consumers simply don't own a big screen HDTV yet, so they wouldn't benefit from having a high-def player. Therefore, I believe that while player prices will likely drop, I don't see disc prices falling in the near future.
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Old 02-18-08 | 02:04 PM
  #269  
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Yes, there is still competition in a way - normal DVD.

But don't give me this line that prices will drop just as fast and competition will be just as fierce now that HD-DVD is gone. They had to compete for their short-term existence, and establishing themselves as the dominant format in the marketplace. Both camps dropped prices and offered deals and promotional bribes and whatever in order to come out of this the winner.

If this had been just one format, this transition would have been going much more casually, and without either camp driving down prices and taking big losses to win.

Now that it is just BD, there is absolutely no need to compete anywhere near as hard.

Less competition almost always equals = higher prices. In this case, slower price dropping, as the planning/outlook shifts to the long-term battle vs DVD rather than the battle vs DVD AND the battle vs HD-DVD.
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Old 02-18-08 | 02:09 PM
  #270  
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The one thing I wonder about is the people that sent in MIR for HD-DVDs and they are still pending. If I don't get the ones I sent it after Christmas, I'm going to be uber-pissed.
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Old 02-18-08 | 02:12 PM
  #271  
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Originally Posted by GreenMonkey
But don't give me this line that prices will drop just as fast and competition will be just as fierce now that HD-DVD is gone.
You are the only one to be writing so. People here have been stating that prices won't go up because there is competition.

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Old 02-18-08 | 02:13 PM
  #272  
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Originally Posted by GreenMonkey
Yes, there is still competition in a way - normal DVD.

But don't give me this line that prices will drop just as fast and competition will be just as fierce now that HD-DVD is gone. They had to compete for their short-term existence, and establishing themselves as the dominant format in the marketplace. Both camps dropped prices and offered deals and promotional bribes and whatever in order to come out of this the winner.

If this had been just one format, this transition would have been going much more casually, and without either camp driving down prices and taking big losses to win.

Now that it is just BD, there is absolutely no need to compete anywhere near as hard.

Less competition almost always equals = higher prices. In this case, slower price dropping, as the planning/outlook shifts to the long-term battle vs DVD rather than the battle vs DVD AND the battle vs HD-DVD.
But wouldn't you agree that this is a good thing? The artificially-induced "competition" during the format war resulted in Toshiba losing hundreds of millions of dollars, and had they stayed in, the projected losses for the next year would have been over $450 million more.

If all you are concerned with is getting a quick glut of today's players and titles at ridiculously low prices, then sure, the format war is "good" for you. But if you want a format that has a chance of surviving long-term, then I don't see how you could possibly consider the resolution of the war anything but good.

Last edited by RoboDad; 02-18-08 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 02-18-08 | 02:16 PM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
What makes me believe that they will compete is the fact that the BDA isn't SONY. It has been said a number of times on this board and I find it hilarious that over and over again SONY is the only name being mentioned.
A few posts above yours is a link from matome to this article http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080218/...te/toshiba_dvd
and the title says "Sony's Blu-ray DVD format".
You may find it hilarious that the board is talking in these terms, but what do you think about everything off this board that may be the reason the board talks in those terms?

Or to put it another way: I don't see Sony graciously sharing credit with BDA every chance they get. Nor do I see BDA making a huge claim to represent itself as its own entity.
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Old 02-18-08 | 02:17 PM
  #274  
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Toshiba is denying weekend press reports that it has decided to drop its HD DVD support, saying that the company is "currently assessing its business strategies," but that no final decisions have been made.

In an official statement issued this morning, Toshiba said, "The media [has] reported that Toshiba will discontinue its HD DVD business. Toshiba has not made any announcement concerning this. Although Toshiba is currently assessing its business strategies, no decision has been made at this moment."
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...-_For_Now/1474

Makes me wonder: If there is to be a vote on Tuesday, what's the point in issuing a press release at all on Monday?
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Old 02-18-08 | 02:24 PM
  #275  
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
You are the only one to be writing so. People here have been stating that prices won't go up because there is competition.

Pro-B
In a way, they have. For example, as Gizmo points out, the 5-free BD offer has expired and hasn't been renewed.

Sure, MSRP hasn't gone up, but the BDA funded BOGO are going to get more rare, the 5-free offer is gone...aren't those effectively price increases?

Originally Posted by RoboDad
But wouldn't you agree that this is a good thing? The artificially-induced "competition" during the format war resulted in Toshiba losing hundreds of millions of dollars, and had they stayed in, the projected losses for the next year would have been over $450 million more.

If all you are concerned with is getting a quick glut of today's players and titles at ridiculously low prices, then sure, the format war is "good" for you. But if you want a format that has a chance of surviving long-term, then I don't see how you could possibly consider the resolution of the war anything but good.
It's only good for Sony and CE companies. It's bad for the consumer, and bad at least for the short-term BD outlook. Lower prices and cutthroat competition = good for consumer, and faster consumer adoption.
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