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Warner, New Line, Paramount, Universal ... The Studios/Networks Thread - Part 2

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Warner, New Line, Paramount, Universal ... The Studios/Networks Thread - Part 2

Old 01-08-08, 08:05 PM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by jiggawhat
Completely agree with you. Digital downloads are at least 15-20 years away and I for one am not looking forward to that.

What would be really sweet is this if you could load up your movie collection onto a home server and just click and browse through the movies you have. The first initial load up of this would take a while, but imagine that. All your movies at your fingertips and whenever you get a new disc just load it up to the server and put it away. You get the best of both worlds. I can't even imagine how much a storage array like that would cost to support such large collections.

I'm still surprised at the fact that no one has yet created a movie equivalent of the CDDB.
I think downloads are close than 15 years, but I totally agree with/love your second point. It would be like a HTPC but with a huge drive array. A movie jukebox if you will. Fully integrate it with something like DVDProfiler or IMDB and it would be amazing. Perhaps the there could be stackable arrays to add on more space for more movies.

Why won't this ever be a commercial product? Studio concerns about piracy.
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Old 01-08-08, 08:05 PM
  #352  
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Originally Posted by jiggawhat
Completely agree with you. Digital downloads are at least 15-20 years away and I for one am not looking forward to that.

What would be really sweet is this if you could load up your movie collection onto a home server and just click and browse through the movies you have. The first initial load up of this would take a while, but imagine that. All your movies at your fingertips and whenever you get a new disc just load it up to the server and put it away. You get the best of both worlds. I can't even imagine how much a storage array like that would cost to support such large collections.

I'm still surprised at the fact that no one has yet created a movie equivalent of the CDDB.
No one's done that partly because of the way CDDB works- with a movie you have one data point to work with (the length of the movie) whereas with CDs you have many. Thus it's much much harder to uniquely identify a DVD. In addition it's illegal to rip commercial DVDs.
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Old 01-08-08, 08:12 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Oh, I have no doubt that that is true. But at the same time, I think you're deluding yourself if you think the average 20-year-old is spending their money on CDs.
I made no comments about what that demographic is buying so there was no need to throw around loaded comments like "deluding" myself. It's offensive and unecessary.

And if 20yo's (or younger) are not buying CD's, just who is buying the millions of copies of new music? I know I don't know many 30+ yo's that buy rap and those CD's are still flying off the shelves in many places.
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Old 01-08-08, 08:16 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by rdclark
Netflix thinks it'll work. TiVo/Amazon thinks it'll work.
Wal-Mart thought it would too, and it failed as of the end of December 2007.

Originally Posted by rdclark
It's far too late for that. Any attempt to introduce a new format now would kill the HDM market for good, for everybody. None of the majors would go there, even if it were feasible to start a new format from scratch with zero installed base of players, which is a fantasy.
Well, remember, price dictates where the consumer goes. They aren't loyal to anyone. Only their wallet. Something cheaper comes along, sporting higher resolution, lower MSRP discs, and you will have early adopters.
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Old 01-08-08, 08:24 PM
  #355  
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Originally Posted by jiggawhat

What would be really sweet is this if you could load up your movie collection onto a home server and just click and browse through the movies you have. The first initial load up of this would take a while, but imagine that. All your movies at your fingertips and whenever you get a new disc just load it up to the server and put it away. You get the best of both worlds. I can't even imagine how much a storage array like that would cost to support such large collections.

I'm still surprised at the fact that no one has yet created a movie equivalent of the CDDB.
This already exists and has for years. There are expensive commercial solutions.

One incredibly cheap (except for storage costs) and amazingly elegant solution is XBMC. I use it in my home theater.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=635294

Sample screen shot.



XBMC queries IMDB in a CDDB-like fashion to get cover art thumbnails. And it can do so much more - internet radio, shoutcast, photo slide shows from your server.
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Old 01-08-08, 08:25 PM
  #356  
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Originally Posted by cardaway
I made no comments about what that demographic is buying so there was no need to throw around loaded comments like "deluding" myself. It's offensive and unecessary.
*ahem*
Originally Posted by cardaway
I don't know about showing off a collection being an issue, but I can agree that the majority will not want to give up having a backup copy of movies they puchased.
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Old 01-08-08, 08:26 PM
  #357  
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Originally Posted by cardaway
No offense, but you sound like clueless teen. But no offense right, since I started my comment with "no offense".
I guess "old" was the wrong word choice, when I really mean "out of touch". You'd have to be way out of touch to think that the majority of the general public prefers physical media the way that you and I do.

My point was not about the music I have downloaded, but the digital copies (iPod) of the hundreds of DVD's I (and millions of other "old" people) own. If things were to go wrong it's nice to know the hard copies are there to upload again.

I feel the same way about the stuff I have downloaded and will likely always burn those to disc as well. But that's because I simply don't trust iTunes to have the songs available again should something happen to my digital version.
Even this early on, there have been very little to no examples of the things you seem fearful of.

As for the "fixed" crap, Please take that part out of your post. I find it very offensive for people to modify the posts of others in that manner. Call me old, but IMO it's very inappropriate in forums like this one.
No, because you are just flat-out wrong here. And you need to understand that. I'm actually with you, in that I prefer to have the physical item as well (for now), but I understand that most people just want the song on the ipod. They prefer the convenience of that. And when digital distribution of film comes along, they'll prefer the convenience of that.
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Old 01-08-08, 08:33 PM
  #358  
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Originally Posted by slop101
*ahem*
*ahem* nothing. I never made any comment about any one demographic, especially not 20yo's. I also was sure to make it clear that they are my opinions without making nasty comments about the opinions of others or offering my opinioin as fact. Two things you obviosuly have a problem with.

I still totally disagree with you but the insulting remarks have driven me away from the discussion.
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Old 01-08-08, 08:36 PM
  #359  
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Do you think that once HD DVD ships their last title that Toshiba will issue a final firmware for all the players to eliminate any glitches with all the titles?
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Old 01-08-08, 09:31 PM
  #360  
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I'm going to repost my thing now that everyone seems to be definitively talking about downloads.
The thing about downloading is that the majority of the people who currently download movies just watch them once and delete them, not to mention the fact that they're probably pirates and want stuff for free. Sure, digital downloads could easily erase, say, the video-rental market in the forseeable future, but try to imagine a world where the Best Buys and Circuit Citys of the world don't carry physical media -- it just doesn't seem possible, and until we're in flying cars I don't think it's a real risk. If Blu-Ray, an easy-to-understand next-gen format that's basically like what we have and love but better, is not going to top SD-DVD, then how can we possibly suggest that digital downloading, a somewhat foreign non-format that easily alienates or disinterests potential users will somehow dwarf both SD-DVD and Blu-Ray, not to mention material media in general?
Until it's literally click-of-a-button, don't expect digital downloads to be a big deal. However, even I have to admit I'd be interested in being able to go on Amazon, press a button, and for five bucks immediately be able to watch the movie I wanted. But even then, I still think that basically ruins the video-rental market, not the video-collector market.

Also, I think that it would need to basically mean you're buying your IP address (or something similar) access to a permanent, Amazon-hosted copy of the movie that you can access from any media device Amazon recognizes as belonging to you, so that if your computer crashes you won't have to worry about losing the movie, because the website knows you purchased it.

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Old 01-08-08, 09:35 PM
  #361  
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Originally Posted by droidguy1119
I'm going to repost my thing now that everyone seems to be definitively talking about downloads.
Until it's literally click-of-a-button, don't expect digital downloads to be a big deal. However, even I have to admit I'd be interested in being able to go on Amazon, press a button, and for five bucks immediately be able to watch the movie I wanted.
Even then I would not feel comfortable going that route at this point. Ever watch or download a TV show online. Often those things can't get through 42 minutes without glitching out. What hope does a 90 minute plus movie have? Imagine that happening with something you actually paid for.
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Old 01-08-08, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cardaway
Even then I would not feel comfortable going that route at this point. Ever watch or download a TV show online. Often those things can't get through 42 minutes without glitching out. What hope does a 90 minute plus movie have? Imagine that happening with something you actually paid for.
Basically what I'm saying is this is at the bare minimum 20 years away, when a website could host hundreds of millions of movies streaming worldwide without blinking an eye. I think a serious attempt at turning the consumer onto digital downloads for all media is a decade away and that's probably too soon, despite the march of technology, to get the concept working to the point at which nobody, and I mean nobody will have problems. I still think people are wary enough of downloads as it is, and if you have even 15, 20% of what will probably start out as a small band of customers complaining people will just continue to shrug it off. Until you reach basically 98-100% workability then people are not going to be on board.
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Old 01-08-08, 09:39 PM
  #363  
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Just imagine paying for Lord Of the Rings Trilogy...Extended Editions. How much data would that be. 180GB or so? Not including the extras on those editions.
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Old 01-08-08, 09:42 PM
  #364  
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illegal mod stuff removed.

Last edited by namja; 01-09-08 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 01-08-08, 09:45 PM
  #365  
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Originally Posted by droidguy1119
Until it's literally click-of-a-button, don't expect digital downloads to be a big deal. However, even I have to admit I'd be interested in being able to go on Amazon, press a button, and for five bucks immediately be able to watch the movie I wanted.
You just described Xbox Live's movie download service. You pick your movie, and after just a few seconds of buffering, you can start watching it, in HD, no less. It still has a ways to go to be optimal, but it's a lot closer than you think it is.
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Old 01-08-08, 09:52 PM
  #366  
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Originally Posted by Lord Rick
This already exists and has for years. There are expensive commercial solutions.

One incredibly cheap (except for storage costs) and amazingly elegant solution is XBMC. I use it in my home theater.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=635294

Sample screen shot.



XBMC queries IMDB in a CDDB-like fashion to get cover art thumbnails. And it can do so much more - internet radio, shoutcast, photo slide shows from your server.
That's freakin' awesome. Can you break the movies down into separate categories like HD-DVD, Horror Movies, etc?
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Old 01-08-08, 09:53 PM
  #367  
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Originally Posted by slop101
You just described Xbox Live's movie download service. You pick your movie, and after just a few seconds of buffering, you can start watching it, in HD, no less. It still has a ways to go to be optimal, but it's a lot closer than you think it is.


This is what gets me about VOD. People are like "Well, maybe in the future, when I can have my pick of hundreds of movies, and it doesn't cost me more than renting from my local movie place."

Right now, I've got four different ways to get legal/legit VOD that I know of: iTunes, Xbox Live, Amazon Unbox, and through my cable provider. These are the ones I know about and I've never searched out any other providers or solutions.

Just wait 5-10 years.
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Old 01-08-08, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bus


This is what gets me about VOD. People are like "Well, maybe in the future, when I can have my pick of hundreds of movies, and it doesn't cost me more than renting from my local movie place."

Right now, I've got four different ways to get legal/legit VOD that I know of: iTunes, Xbox Live, Amazon Unbox, and through my cable provider. These are the ones I know about and I've never searched out any other providers or solutions.

Just wait 5-10 years.
Yeah, but the idea is not that VOD is available, it's that it's not only perfected, but perfected to the point where it's completely replaced standard physical media. People may watch movies on their iPod when they go on a car or plane trip, but that's not their main way to watch and own movies. It's just something that's there for when they want it. Still, I admit that it's probably easier to download movies than I thought it was.
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Old 01-08-08, 11:11 PM
  #369  
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360 Owners Need Not Shed a Tear Just Yet

Microsoft Would Consider Blu-ray for Xbox

If HD DVD does indeed fail and Blu-ray is officially crowned the winner of the format war, a Microsoft exec has conceded that MS would consider offering a Blu-ray player for Xbox 360.

With the recent Warner Bros. announcement that the studio will exclusively support Blu-ray over HD DVD, many industry watchers suspect that the format war is nearing its end with Blu-ray victorious. HD DVD player sales for the Xbox 360 would seem likely to dry up as a result, but in the event of a final Blu-ray victory, would Microsoft support Sony's format?

According to Albert Penello, group marketing manager for Xbox, Microsoft will "consider" the option. "It should be consumer choice; and if that's the way they vote, that's something we'll have to consider," he told Reuters .

Penello added, however, that he doesn't think Warner's decision really affects the Xbox 360 much at all. "I fundamentally don't think ... this has a significant impact on Xbox 360 versus (Sony's) PlayStation 3," he said, adding, "With the PlayStation 2, DVD was a big part in the beginning, but over time, people were not buying it as a DVD player after first year or two."

Penello isn't totally convinced that HD DVD has lost either, despite Warner's decision. "You can't say it's not a bummer, not a setback, but I've seen this battle declared over so many times," he noted. "I want consumers to have a voice in this and I think there are a lot of consumers who bought HD DVD who are going to have a say in how this shakes out."
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/ne...x/19022/?biz=1
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Old 01-08-08, 11:16 PM
  #370  
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I totally expect there to be a BD add-on at some point (which would also make it a dual-format player with the HD DVD add-on). They're not going to want to let Sony have the combination console/HD movie player market to themselves.
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Old 01-09-08, 12:58 AM
  #371  
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Originally Posted by slop101
You just described Xbox Live's movie download service. You pick your movie, and after just a few seconds of buffering, you can start watching it, in HD, no less. It still has a ways to go to be optimal, but it's a lot closer than you think it is.
The day it replaces physical media for "ownership" of movies will be the day I quit collecting and never look back.

Maybe, just maybe I could see it as a rental replacement, but there is no way I will ever pay to "own" a copy of a movie that I really don't "own". The risks far outweigh the rewards.
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Old 01-09-08, 01:29 AM
  #372  
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Well, shit, I'm in the same boat as you (being on DVDTalk and all), and I love having a movie collection. But you have to understand, this is not the norm - not even close. Out of the hundreds of people I know, only about 2 have any sort of dvd collection. Everyone else rents. If it replaces rentals, that's enough. Though there will alway be a bone thrown at the collectors, like us. Digital downloads could even be a boon to collectors, as it might make the studios go the extra mile for the physical release to entice us more.
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Old 01-09-08, 01:55 AM
  #373  
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That would be fine by me. I could even see myself renting more, provided that a) the rental price is reasonable ($3.99 maximum for brand new, blockbuster titles, $2 or less for everything else), b) the quality matches Blu-ray (which, from every review of every service I've heard of so far, it does not), and c) every movie I want to rent is available, whenever I want to rent it. None of this "moratorium" crap that Disney pulls with their sell-through titles.

Aside from the potential that this delivery mechanism could destroy the physical media model, my other huge concern is that every competing service is/will be a closed system. You pay them for their box (which I kind of have a beef with, right out of the gate), and you get their service, and their service only. I can imagine that different services will be vying for market share in the most cutthroat ways imaginable. What happens if one of them (such as MS, given their immense size), tries to work out exclusive deals on some movies. Finding out that you subscribed to the "wrong" service would really turn me off to the whole model.
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Old 01-09-08, 02:50 AM
  #374  
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Originally Posted by jiggawhat
Completely agree with you. Digital downloads are at least 15-20 years away and I for one am not looking forward to that.

What would be really sweet is this if you could load up your movie collection onto a home server and just click and browse through the movies you have. The first initial load up of this would take a while, but imagine that. All your movies at your fingertips and whenever you get a new disc just load it up to the server and put it away. You get the best of both worlds. I can't even imagine how much a storage array like that would cost to support such large collections.

I'm still surprised at the fact that no one has yet created a movie equivalent of the CDDB.
What you are asking for exists, just not finalized. It is called Managed Copy and it is done by AACS. It is still finalizing specs, but it is the studios way of having you buy discs, and then allowing you to legally backup the entire disc to a home server and use a PC to load all your flicks legally while the discs stay stored on your shelf safely for when you want to take it to a buddy's house or if you got a new server to re-load the movie on. This is WAY more preferred then having the movies sit on some server on the internet and having NO tangible item in my hand for my hard earned $$$. BD+ is also in the spec.

This stuff should all be finalized in a year or 2 and by then, hopefully, hard drive prices will get a lot lower. A 1TB western digital drive is still 280+ bux, and would only hold 30-50 Blu-Ray movies on it, depending on the size of the movie and extras. Also, Sigma Designs is working with TV companys at the moment to put in the same chipsets from Blu-Ray players inside the TVs themselves, all with wireless networking, so all you do is turn on your PC and turn on your TV, and stream the movies and have the TV act as your Blu-Ray players. All of this is coming, just not immediately.
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Old 01-09-08, 03:05 AM
  #375  
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I hope that they allow us to customize it by taking out stuff we don't want. If I had such a thing (after storage prices go WAY down), I'd like to be able to leave out the FBI warnings and previews. Plus, there's no need to have the PCM and French TrueHD tracks on Superbad eating up space when the English TrueHD track would be enough. However, I'm afraid it would be the whole disc or nothing.
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