Blockbuster backs Blu-Ray
06-20-07 | 05:26 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
But...consider this (and I will use your logic here): IF the HD format is a own-format then JoeSix Pack really does not come into play here, nor savvy internet-readers such as yourself. Take these two groups aside, which I sense you believe will side with HD for two reasons: low price and owning and...at this stage of the game you have a group of people that are precisely the ones that might want to jump in this so called war and make a crucial decision! These are the suburban soccer moms that still go to Blockbuster and the uninformed, I don't care yet-type of people who have enough funds to afford a player.
06-20-07 | 05:36 PM
#127
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
My gut reaction is that this has more to do with the type of people that are early adopters, and if any studio takes this as what the interest is going to be down the road, they're being incredibly foolish.
06-20-07 | 07:42 PM
#128
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Hmm. It isn't really my opinion that the attach rate for HD DVD is better, it is a widely reported fact. BD has a large edge when it comes to installed hardware. The numbers for software for the two formats are pretty much dead even right now.
Explain how BD's attach rate is better than HD DVD's?
I am sort of frightened (or is disappointed a better word?) that there is such a clearly biased reviewer on staff here. Most of the regularly participating reviewers in this subforum are doing a great job at being impartial. If Adam Tyner says "PotC: DMC looks astounding on BD!" it makes me think that I need a BD deck. Seeing Pro-B say the same will probably bring up the letters "FUD" in my mind.
Explain how BD's attach rate is better than HD DVD's?
I am sort of frightened (or is disappointed a better word?) that there is such a clearly biased reviewer on staff here. Most of the regularly participating reviewers in this subforum are doing a great job at being impartial. If Adam Tyner says "PotC: DMC looks astounding on BD!" it makes me think that I need a BD deck. Seeing Pro-B say the same will probably bring up the letters "FUD" in my mind.
06-20-07 | 07:52 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
A nonsense!
In fact, you should look into the bigger picture as all things considered it appears that this time around the war will not even be partially decided on US soil. Toshiba's recent statement (which I posted in another thread proves precisely that) regarding utterly disapointing sales in the US, a factor Toshiba was betting on in gaining advantage over BR, prompted a loss price cut. Such concerns were not at the time present in the BR camp.
Also, what owners are you citing? Again, the statement Toshiba made reflects quite a different trend! Are you taking into considertation only the US market? If, yes, then your logic does not stand a whim - sales, prior to the price cut have been disappointing and I don't see a reversal sign given the strong performance of BR in Europe (ratio is 3:1).
I urge you to also consider the HD code-cracking which has led to rampant piracy on the Russian market (could this be the reason why HD has seen fewer and fewer blockbusters under its flag this summer?)
I don't know what the US ratio is but I will be curious to see how many PS3 owners in the US do not own high-end sets. Whatever the ratio is...cut that in half as widescreen TVs have been growing in sales and become a major factor amongst European consumers. So, I don't think that Josh's assumption has much ground to build upon.
Sure, Blockbuster is getting kickbacks in this deal, otherwise thy will not be part of it. But...consider this (and I will use your logic here): IF the HD format is a own-format then JoeSix Pack really does not come into play here, nor savvy internet-readers such as yourself. Take these two groups aside, which I sense you believe will side with HD for two reasons: low price and owning and...at this stage of the game you have a group of people that are precisely the ones that might want to jump in this so called war and make a crucial decision! These are the suburban soccer moms that still go to Blockbuster and the uninformed, I don't care yet-type of people who have enough funds to afford a player.
Considering all of the above what SONY and Blockbuster have done ins't that asinine at all! And with overseas sales numbers, the only aspect of this war the studios care about, coming in in favor of BR you have a heavy swing away from HD.
This is the way I see what unfolds at the moment! The future will show whetehr or not my logic was faulty but at this stage of the game with the recent announcements I tend to believe that indeed BR is here to stay!
Pro-B
In fact, you should look into the bigger picture as all things considered it appears that this time around the war will not even be partially decided on US soil. Toshiba's recent statement (which I posted in another thread proves precisely that) regarding utterly disapointing sales in the US, a factor Toshiba was betting on in gaining advantage over BR, prompted a loss price cut. Such concerns were not at the time present in the BR camp.
Also, what owners are you citing? Again, the statement Toshiba made reflects quite a different trend! Are you taking into considertation only the US market? If, yes, then your logic does not stand a whim - sales, prior to the price cut have been disappointing and I don't see a reversal sign given the strong performance of BR in Europe (ratio is 3:1).
I urge you to also consider the HD code-cracking which has led to rampant piracy on the Russian market (could this be the reason why HD has seen fewer and fewer blockbusters under its flag this summer?)
I don't know what the US ratio is but I will be curious to see how many PS3 owners in the US do not own high-end sets. Whatever the ratio is...cut that in half as widescreen TVs have been growing in sales and become a major factor amongst European consumers. So, I don't think that Josh's assumption has much ground to build upon.
Sure, Blockbuster is getting kickbacks in this deal, otherwise thy will not be part of it. But...consider this (and I will use your logic here): IF the HD format is a own-format then JoeSix Pack really does not come into play here, nor savvy internet-readers such as yourself. Take these two groups aside, which I sense you believe will side with HD for two reasons: low price and owning and...at this stage of the game you have a group of people that are precisely the ones that might want to jump in this so called war and make a crucial decision! These are the suburban soccer moms that still go to Blockbuster and the uninformed, I don't care yet-type of people who have enough funds to afford a player.
Considering all of the above what SONY and Blockbuster have done ins't that asinine at all! And with overseas sales numbers, the only aspect of this war the studios care about, coming in in favor of BR you have a heavy swing away from HD.
This is the way I see what unfolds at the moment! The future will show whetehr or not my logic was faulty but at this stage of the game with the recent announcements I tend to believe that indeed BR is here to stay!
Pro-B
Sales are not "utterly disapointing," unless you want to slap BD with that tag as well.
BD has been crack just like HD DVD. So that is not an issue.
Soccer moms are NOT the market for this stuff, and won't be for quite a while.
I am not even sure what this passage is all about
"I don't know what the US ratio is but I will be curious to see how many PS3 owners in the US do not own high-end sets. Whatever the ratio is...cut that in half as widescreen TVs have been growing in sales and become a major factor amongst European consumers. So, I don't think that Josh's assumption has much ground to build upon. "
You totally pulled that number out of your ass. Show some trend where by year's end 1/2 of all not HD-connected BD decks will be HD-connected.
"And with overseas sales numbers, the only aspect of this war the studios care about"
Right. Studios could care less about what they sell in the US. Who cares that the US is the biggest cmarket in the world. FUD.
I'll echo Josh here:
"I'd just prefer one to die off and the other show signs of being a viable long term format before I jump in.
I couldn't give a rat's ass which one it is that sticks around though."
If BD prevails, that is cool. I'll probably have a deck by summer's end anyway. If HD DVD tanks there will be plenty of bargain software for me, and as a dyed-in-the-wool cheapskate, that wouldn't make me terribly sad. If the grand raison d'etre for HD DVD is to force pre-recorded HD media and player prices to reasonable levels, I would tip my hat and say thanks when I buy Star Wars on BD.
06-20-07 | 08:06 PM
#130
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. No average person is going to plunk down more than 200 bucks on any player, period.
06-20-07 | 08:12 PM
#131
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Originally Posted by ktr
it's the END GAME from Summer 2007 to Winter 2007 . . . bye-bye HD-DVD!
Originally Posted by dsa_shea
Weren't standard dvd players more than 200 when they first came out? Tons of people bought them as we all know.
06-20-07 | 08:19 PM
#132
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
We try to keep this forum a place for high-definition enthusiasts rather than "HD DVD is teh roxxors" or "Blu-ray or die", and these sorts of argumentative posts really don't accomplish anything for anyone.
Not when they first came out, though.
Not when they first came out, though.
06-20-07 | 08:24 PM
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tick tock
Well, only time will tell . . .
it will be determined on content and so far
Sony/Columbia has a vast library
Disney too
As for HD-DVD they have Warner Brothers and Universal
On a sidenote, Sony's LCD HDTV have been profitable for this quarter and last quarter . . .
it will be determined on content and so far
Sony/Columbia has a vast library
Disney too
As for HD-DVD they have Warner Brothers and Universal
On a sidenote, Sony's LCD HDTV have been profitable for this quarter and last quarter . . .
06-20-07 | 08:38 PM
#134
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by ktr
Well, only time will tell . . .
it will be determined on content and so far
Sony/Columbia has a vast library
Disney too
it will be determined on content and so far
Sony/Columbia has a vast library
Disney too
Would be nice if Fox would get with the program!
06-20-07 | 08:41 PM
#135
Banned by request
You know, it's a shame. We had just about gotten this forum to the point where we could discuss any aspect of BD or HD without "Well, this is the end for [the format the poster doesn't like]" or "Well, it doesn't even matter that this is happening because [insert same old tired arguments that people have been using for over a year]." Hopefully we can get it to that point again.
06-20-07 | 08:52 PM
#136
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by dsa_shea
Weren't standard dvd players more than 200 when they first came out? Tons of people bought them as we all know. At first dvd was a shunned idea by many but we all know how that turned out. That is why we are here on this board.
06-20-07 | 08:54 PM
#137
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I am sort of frightened (or is disappointed a better word?) that there is such a clearly biased reviewer on staff here.
You should see the guys who run animeondvd.com , talk about people who drink the blu kool-aid.
06-20-07 | 08:59 PM
#138
Retired
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Yeah, um... the same people that were spending a lot on DVD players in 1997-98 are basically the same people that are spending a lot on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players today. DVD was not an instantaneous success.
06-20-07 | 11:49 PM
#139
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From: Blu-ray.com
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Hmm. It isn't really my opinion that the attach rate for HD DVD is better, it is a widely reported fact.
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Explain how BD's attach rate is better than HD DVD's?
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I am sort of frightened (or is disappointed a better word?) that there is such a clearly biased reviewer on staff here. Most of the regularly participating reviewers in this subforum are doing a great job at being impartial. If Adam Tyner says "PotC: DMC looks astounding on BD!" it makes me think that I need a BD deck. Seeing Pro-B say the same will probably bring up the letters "FUD" in my mind.
Clearly biased..?? I stated why at this point of the game I lean towards BR, in case it is not clear enough allow me to be more specific: titles that interest me!
You could consider my statement(s) as biased if I made a comprative evlauation where I plainly took BR over HD based on some technical data, etc. Such I have not done! On the contrary I also pointed out why I consider HD to be a format more in tune with my buying habits. Perhaps you should go back and reread what I have posted before succumbing to your fears.
Being impartial is one thing, commenting on recent events and stating what format currently offers more titles of interest is another!
I am sorry, I simply don't understand how this isn't clear to you!
Regards,
Pro-B
ps
I am sorry I just took a look at your second post and I simply have to conclude that you and I disagree on a number of facts.
Last edited by pro-bassoonist; 06-20-07 at 11:56 PM.
06-21-07 | 12:04 AM
#140
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From: Blu-ray.com
Originally Posted by trespoochies
By the way Pro-B, you should see the way Volver looks on Blu Ray. Simply gorgeous.
Pro-B
06-21-07 | 02:28 AM
#141
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sparseness of Blu ray and HD DVDs
If I had a HD DVD, I would look forward to watching
the Bourne movies
and if they had any of Stanley Kubrick movies remastered for 1080p
- Full Metal Jacket
- Clockwork Orange
but as of now, no HD-DVDs are like killer movies to have although the matrix comes close
Blu-ray is probably the closest as of the moment
the pirates movies showing off the 1080p HD quality
and the forthcoming Spiderman
but yeah, both formats suffer from the sparseness of their movie catalogs. . . they should bring it on.
the Bourne movies
and if they had any of Stanley Kubrick movies remastered for 1080p
- Full Metal Jacket
- Clockwork Orange
but as of now, no HD-DVDs are like killer movies to have although the matrix comes close
Blu-ray is probably the closest as of the moment
the pirates movies showing off the 1080p HD quality
and the forthcoming Spiderman
but yeah, both formats suffer from the sparseness of their movie catalogs. . . they should bring it on.
06-21-07 | 09:11 AM
#142
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
Not a rant, just analyzing what I have seen and read!
Here's the simple, boiled-down truth of the matter: When the top-selling title on either format can't move 100,000 copies, and meanwhile the comparable DVD edition sells in the millions in the same time period, neither High-Def format is "winning". They're both losing to DVD, and losing badly.
The sales lead that Blu-ray has over HD DVD is beyond insignificant. It's actually laughable to ooh and ahh over a "victory" of selling a couple thousand more copies of a movie, while the studio loses money in the process. Neither format has yet made a profit for anyone involved.
If you think this format war is going to end anytime soon, you are sadly mistaken. The only sensible thing for a real movie fan to do is to buy players for both formats as soon as prices come down to an acceptable level.
06-21-07 | 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
Pro-b, with due respect I suggest you take a step back for a moment and look at the larger picture. You're new to this argument, and are right now recycling a lot of the rhetoric we've been through over and over again for the past year.
Here's the simple, boiled-down truth of the matter: When the top-selling title on either format can't move 100,000 copies, and meanwhile the comparable DVD edition sells in the millions in the same time period, neither High-Def format is "winning". They're both losing to DVD, and losing badly.
The sales lead that Blu-ray has over HD DVD is beyond insignificant. It's actually laughable to ooh and ahh over a "victory" of selling a couple thousand more copies of a movie, while the studio loses money in the process. Neither format has yet made a profit for anyone involved.
If you think this format war is going to end anytime soon, you are sadly mistaken. The only sensible thing for a real movie fan to do is to buy players for both formats as soon as prices come down to an acceptable level.
Here's the simple, boiled-down truth of the matter: When the top-selling title on either format can't move 100,000 copies, and meanwhile the comparable DVD edition sells in the millions in the same time period, neither High-Def format is "winning". They're both losing to DVD, and losing badly.
The sales lead that Blu-ray has over HD DVD is beyond insignificant. It's actually laughable to ooh and ahh over a "victory" of selling a couple thousand more copies of a movie, while the studio loses money in the process. Neither format has yet made a profit for anyone involved.
If you think this format war is going to end anytime soon, you are sadly mistaken. The only sensible thing for a real movie fan to do is to buy players for both formats as soon as prices come down to an acceptable level.
06-21-07 | 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
Pro-b, with due respect I suggest you take a step back for a moment and look at the larger picture. You're new to this argument, and are right now recycling a lot of the rhetoric we've been through over and over again for the past year.
Here's the simple, boiled-down truth of the matter: When the top-selling title on either format can't move 100,000 copies, and meanwhile the comparable DVD edition sells in the millions in the same time period, neither High-Def format is "winning". They're both losing to DVD, and losing badly.
The sales lead that Blu-ray has over HD DVD is beyond insignificant. It's actually laughable to ooh and ahh over a "victory" of selling a couple thousand more copies of a movie, while the studio loses money in the process. Neither format has yet made a profit for anyone involved.
If you think this format war is going to end anytime soon, you are sadly mistaken. The only sensible thing for a real movie fan to do is to buy players for both formats as soon as prices come down to an acceptable level.
Here's the simple, boiled-down truth of the matter: When the top-selling title on either format can't move 100,000 copies, and meanwhile the comparable DVD edition sells in the millions in the same time period, neither High-Def format is "winning". They're both losing to DVD, and losing badly.
The sales lead that Blu-ray has over HD DVD is beyond insignificant. It's actually laughable to ooh and ahh over a "victory" of selling a couple thousand more copies of a movie, while the studio loses money in the process. Neither format has yet made a profit for anyone involved.
If you think this format war is going to end anytime soon, you are sadly mistaken. The only sensible thing for a real movie fan to do is to buy players for both formats as soon as prices come down to an acceptable level.
I disagree with the part about dual format support being the "only sensible thing". Couldn't disagree more, in fact, as I think there's a false assumption that a "real movie fan" has neither patience nor self control. I'm sure we could debate the term all day, but I consider myself to be a genuine "real movie fan", and I feel like we the honest-to-goodness movie fans are being slighted. I will not support Blu-ray, nor the studios which are Blu-ray exclusive. Period. HD DVD has proven itself over and over, and -- while Blu-ray has unarguable potential -- I do not see any perceptible superiority in their opposing format. If anything, I strongly feel that the negatives more than outweigh the positives, especially given that Blu-ray is still vastly more expensive than HD DVD. If it doesn't out-perform HD DVD, why should I pay substantially more for it?
The format war will only be prolonged by so-called "real movie fans" supporting both formats.
06-21-07 | 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by applesandrice
I'm sure we could debate the term all day, but I consider myself to be a genuine "real movie fan", and I feel like we the honest-to-goodness movie fans are being slighted. I will not support Blu-ray, nor the studios which are Blu-ray exclusive. Period. HD DVD has proven itself over and over, and -- while Blu-ray has unarguable potential -- I do not see any perceptible superiority in their opposing format.
06-21-07 | 12:32 PM
#148
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by Josh Z
The sales lead that Blu-ray has over HD DVD is beyond insignificant. It's actually laughable to ooh and ahh over a "victory" of selling a couple thousand more copies of a movie, while the studio loses money in the process. Neither format has yet made a profit for anyone involved.
personally i know many people who are willing to invest in a highdef format, but only once the format "war" between hd dvd and bd is resolved. i suspect this is not an insignificant proportion of the general public, and will certainly help the winner in the fight against dvd when that campaign kicks into gear.
on the thread topic itself, there's more to this than simply the physical placement of bd boxes in blockbuster stores. they must have known that by making this announcement it would be taken by some as a sign of confidence in one format over the other, and yet went ahead anyway. that's a fairly strong posstion to take this early into the game, even if their rental ratios are 70/30 in bd's favour.
incidentally this has become international news, and is one of the only format war stories to be carried in national newspapers over here in the uk. my dad was chatting to me the other day and asked if i'd heard blockbuster was going bd in the usa. he doesn't follow this song and dance, so i asked him where he'd heard, and he said it was in the telegraph, and not in an obscure tech section, either.
06-21-07 | 12:37 PM
#149
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Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
personally i know many people who are willing to invest in a highdef format, but only once the format "war" between hd dvd and bd is resolved. i suspect this is not an insignificant proportion of the general public
06-21-07 | 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
See, I suspect that it is an insignificant proportion of the general public. We're unusual. There's no doubt in my mind that the majority of people are perfectly content with DVD, and unless they're flat-out deprived of the option of buying DVDs, they have zero interest in upgrading.