This is Star Wars that we are talking about. Fans would still bitch that they had to pay more in order to pick up the original cuts. Then we would have to deal with the numerous "Lucas Raped My wallet" posts.

* Naboo has been added to the ending celebration... you see some gungans on a rooftop and can hear one shout "Wesa Free!"
[/B][/QUOTE]

If that is even remotly true, George needs to be ... oh my god!!

no, i agree with that- but somewhere, when dealing in Lucasland® the concept of choice becomes taboo.

it's one thing to only offer that $100 set.
its quite another to offer it up in addition to the normal retail sets.
Spider-Man, ET, Schindlers List...and how many other films were also released as premium priced 'deluxe' edtions.
and in the case of this film especially, with the contentious nature of the altered versions, i think it would be a slam dunk that the originals would sell at $100.
would i be pissed i had to pay that much?
sure.
but i would pay it to own a decent copy of them.
and so would plenty of other people.
and then once the hype kicked in, you would find people getting the expensive set, because DVD has spawned tens of thousands of collectors- not just movie fans.


i haven't owned them on any format since the early 90s...when i sold off my first WS LDs to finance a $300 Boxset of the films- the extra content of which i found so incredibly unsatisfying for the money (the whole purose of upgrading), that i sold that off within weeks also, and wiped my hands of the franchise for 11 yrs.
i felt rooked and completely taken advantage of.
hard to enjoy the films with that kind of cloud hanging over the experience.

i'm getting nostalgic to see the films again, but it looks like i'm going to have a similar frustrated reaction.

Yes all the reasons Terrell pointed out are reasons why stuidos keep double dipping releases, etc. New Line is actually losing money when they release both versions of Lord of the Rings movies. They are doing that only as a favor to fan.

seeing a widescreen version of ESB in a record store, was what made me get into LDs in the first place.
i spent $70 on it (in 1990 dollars) and that was 8 months before i had an LD player to watch it on.
i was always a big fan of that movie and it was enormously satisfying to be able to own a copy of it that was in the original theatrical aspect ratio.
that was the whole point of bothering to own a film- to get it to replicate as close to the original theatrical experience as possible.
i had seen these movies a ton of times by the time '93 rolled around and they started to advertise for that LD set (and you're right it must have been closer to $250- no online discounts though back in those days and shipping was a bitch).
if the set hadn't been promoted as such an extravegant 'extras packed package' i probably wouldn't have bit.
i was perfectly satisfied with the discs i had.
it was the promise of all that material that was sitting in LFL archives that got my imagination going.
by that time, i had been exposed to plenty of Criterion sets with exhaustive extra content.
it was clear to me, that the material was available to pack that set- and for the outrageous price they were charging for it- i don't think that was an unreasonable expectation.
but to then get it and find out the production artwork galleries consisted of the same 40 or 50 McQuarrie paintings we'd seen reprinted dozens of times already- and that was it! and the audio commentaries were just isolated comments sprinkled here and there with plenty of dead space...

the entire experience just left a very sour taste in my mouth.

i saw an interview with Peter Jackson on Charlie Rose last year.
he was happy with his theatrical cuts.
he wasn't doing the EEs for himself- he was doing them for the fans of the books, because he realized that there was plenty of material that the theatrical cuts did not need that was being missed by the fans.
quite the antithesis of what is motivating Lucas.
would they have released the EEs if they were expecting to lose money?
of course not- but from Jacksons standpoint- he made it clear (and was clearly humble about it) that he appreciated that the literary fans had embraced the films and this was what he could give them back in return.

ckolchak, Salty,

Keep up the fight, guys! Someday it'll be one of THEIR movies that gets ignored forever. Then they'll understand.

As opppsed to the syncophants who defend every Lucas decision?

Terrell,
i think the way New Line went about it- being very up front in advance that an EE was coming, kind of paved the way for people to be more satisfied with these releases and the strategies behind them.
this wasn't like what you see with Columbia releases, where every 4 months a new version of Underworld gets announced.
i don't know anyone that seriously criticized New Line for the way they handled the home video exploitation of the LOTR films- well, that is outside of SW fans arguing the point .
PJ and New Line acted the way i would hope/expect anyone in a service related industry would- they took account of what the customers desired and tried to accomdate that as much as they could.
George Lucas, in comparision, looks to be 180 degrees in the opposite direction with this release.

as far as the 25 yrs of whiny fans...i dunno.
Lucas seemed to lead quite a charmed life there as far as i could see growing up.
the first 2 SW films were overwhelmingly critical darlings (the first one was embraced as a breath of fresh air and the second as being extremely well made). even ROTJ got at least mildly positive reviews- and Raiders was well recieved.
the critical luster started to fade a little with TOD,
but i don't remember anything close to the 25 years of whinning & nitpicking you mention.
i've been very critical of ROTJ since 1983, but i've always been in the minority.

Greedo shoots first! AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Take it over here you guys. Not like there's anything new being said, but still.

OK folks, I see two distinct patterns here. Possibly three, but I'm not sure.

The first, the person who wants the best A/V transfer for their favorite films on DVD.

The second, the person who wants a substandard A/V transfer for their favorite films because that's the version they like most, because of some irrational fascination with the unrestored version.

By that I mean, most of the time, everybody seems to want their DVDs to contain a nice restored/remastered anamorphic version of the films. EXCEPT, when it comes to Star Wars. These people would rather have an unrestored/unremastered version on DVD just because they don't like the slight changes being made, most of which are basic effects clean-ups.

I'm surprised we're not getting the "Where's the DTS?" arguments here. "Uh...no DTS, no sale."

Like many of you I grew up loving the originals for what they were. Then I heard about the '97 SEs. While watching the SEs, I kept questioning, "Well, why didn't they go ahead and restore this part, or do this or that?" There was still many parts of those films, namely ANH, that looked like they didn't even touch it during that restoration process. The Skywalker Moisture Farm part still looked very faded to me.

So hopefully these new Lowry Digital restored DVDs will give us, and myself what I wished the '97 SEs should have delivered. And from the screenshots that have been floating around. We/I will.

he has brought it completely upon himself.
criticism goes with the territory, but i think the more extreme reaction GL engenders is 100% due to his own militant revisionism.
i know i would be fine with his little projects on these films, if it weren't supplanting part of my (pop)cultural history/heratige in the process.

its hard to be happy that something you love is 80% complete when 100% fidelity is perfectly reasonable.
Film buffs bemoan the fact that some films are lost forever to time because of studio ineptitude and carelessness.
wilfull destruction and marginalization shouldn't get a pass, just because one person desires it.
i don't care who he is.
20 yrs in the marketplace and culture makes that film something more than just one persons private property.
it is cultural record at that point and to permenantly deface it should be treated as an act of vandalism.
if not legally, then socially.

and again, words like vanadlism are bandided about because these versions are not offered as companion pieces, but as the one, true article with no acknoledgment of what the films were really like when they were really concieved and executed.

And yet you're still buying them.

How about a third group that wants the original restored? Not new effects, not an "improved" soundtrack, just restored, ala Indiana Jones. (They fixed one shot in Indy)

Nope, read the Lowry Digital article I linked to earlier. There was a blue line down the middle of Raiders that Lowry had to remove from about half or more of the film. Would you want this unfixed version on DVD? I wouldn't. During a couple of episodes of the first season of Babylon 5, there was a few scenes where there were these distracting lines. They were complained about. It's ashame that Lowry couldn't have remastered that enitre series.

So what's that got to do with Star Wars? Well, if the so-called "orignals" were to be released, they'd be the pre-'97 SE versions, in the state that they were in before the menial restoration that they got then. Because when they were restored then, they were altered within that restoration process.

You know, I'm really beginning to think that the people who continue to whine and bitch about this are in reality, ignorant of the film restoration process and what happened in the process of the creating of the '97 SEs. But then one can say, "Well isn't there some original print locked away somewhere in the Lucasfilm vault?" Well, if there is, it's in worst shape now than the '97 SE workprint was then. Remember, the '97 SEs were basically made in '95-'96. That was nearly 10 years ago. If the original film print of ANH was in as bad of shape back then where it needed immediate restoration to save it, imagine what kind of shape it'd be in today.

But let's forget all that. Let's go back to the '95 THX VHS releases. "Own them for the last time." You know, I think he {Lucas} meant it. Because I would bet that he knew at the time, that he was planning on doing the SEs. In fact, I seem to remember rumors that he was planning on some "tinkering" before the THX versions came out. Heard it on the radio, IIRC.

Perhaps maybe so, but to continue to harp on the idea, when the facts of the matter continue to be ignored seem more ignorant. As my last post said above, "Own them for the last time." By God, I think he meant it.

Quote:

Yes, most of the changes made to the "Star Wars" films are effects clean-up. But there are also countless substantive changes that do, in fact, alter the narrative content of the movies.

Countless changes? Like what? Name them. Name the ones that you honestly think have changed the narrative? Please note that we haven't even seen the new DVDs yet. The only major changes that we know of so far that would even come close to changing narrative would be the replacement of S. Shaw with Hayden, and the Greedo thing. Other than that, all the others I think have been for the better.

Great! Thats your opinion! And a lot of people don't agree with you. Get off the high horse!

Yes, because Lucas continues to churn out changes to the originals. In the last few weeks alone, there has been the Shaw change, the Emperor change, all kinds of changes being reported.

Thats why this topic never dies - Lucas is constantly tinkering with the originals.

Uh...no DTS, no sale.

These quotes just have to make you laugh at the rediculousness of them! So you are saying you own no DVD unless they have DTS? I will bet everything this is NOT true! So why is it you make such a rediculous statement about the SW trilogy? I mean if this release was non-Anamorphic and/or contained a DD 2.0 audio only track I could see such a statement but this is a pristine Anamorphic video and a outstanding DD-EX audio set and it is hardly going to be sub-par.

If someone is truely a purist then they should insist on the films not digitaly mastered and with only the original mono and stereo soundtracks.

in an unrelated note

Not taking anything away from Peter Jackson, but he is bassically a hired hand and the LOTR trilogy is not his, it belongs to the studio so any decision made is up to Robert Shey and New Line.

Lucas owns the Star Wars franchise and, with the exeption of the original, financed them (all 5 sequels / prequels) out of his own pocket. All of the restoration, changes, and production came out of his own pocket.

Yes! Because anything said on this forum is meant to force a filmmaker give in! Sure, thats why people post!!!

It sure seems like the people that post all the time are the ones that sit around and gush over every new little detail - "OH BOY! I AM SO EXCITED THEY CHANGED HAN'S SHIRT" Whooppeee---deee---dooo! So if you are going to sit around and bitch about people bitching, maybe you can stop people posting after they wank off to Han's shirt being white not blue

I was trying to be funny by using Mike Lowrey quote Lol I guess you didnt read his post i really dont care if it doesnt have DTS :P

Great, you shot down my opinion, with your vague opinion. Give me some examples and reasons why those particular examples make things for the worse.