I find it funny that someone who posts on an internet messageboard has the gall to automatically assume that someone who defends Star Wars is a plastic-lightsaber-wielding, D&D-playing geek. Pot, meet Kettle. So you didn't buy them, didn't rent them and was very disappointed with them, yet can't help talking about it. That's a conundrum. Normally when I don't buy, don't rent or am very disappointed with something, I don't even bother thinking about it, much less spend hours on an internet messageboard debating such issue.


Really? cuz I just re-read the first post you made and NOWHERE does it say that.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Here, let me break it down real simple like:

Huge Money = Ticket Sales
Ticket Sales = Someone wanted to see the film

Take, oh say the Hulk for example. Started out strong, died away quickly, and was running in the second run 1 Dollar houses 6 six weeks after it opened. Why? Because folks said "Hey, this might be kind of cool" and then bad word of mouth kicked the legs out from under it.

Meanwhile, Star Wars was making very good money for a very long time, well beyond the point where bad word of mouth would have taken it's toll.

Why is that? It couldn't possibly be because beyond the small but vocal contingent of Movie Snobs, the Man on the Street liked the movie? Naw - couldn't be.

Or Riddle me this, Batman: if Phantom Menace was as bad as you said, then why was it selling to sold out houses during the limited re-release run during Christmas of '99? That was WELL after the point where people should have figured out that it was a bad movie. And yet somehow it was packed.

Or the IMAX screenings of Clones in December, '02. Again - packed houses WELL after the point of Word of Mouth Death. Hell, I had a friend who worked at the Pacific Science Center who was wishing that they weren't obligated to run Lion King in Jan - they would have kept running Clones.

If it was SOOOOOOO bad, why were people going to see it?

If you dont like the movies - you know what, I feel sorry for you. Really, legitimately sorry that you (and all the other SW detractors) can't find the pleasure in them.

Failing that, I'll settle for the next best thing and please: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT IT!!!! The incessant whining is getting old. It's been 5 years now - time to let it go. Go bitch about the Matrix sequels or something.

So I'll take it that you've never seen New Hope, Empire and Jedi then, huh? I hate to break it to you, but the writing and the acting is no better in the 77-83 trilogy than it is in the 99-05 trilogy.

And this is any more gratuitous than Leia in the Slave Bikini . . . how exactly?

R2 has *ALWAYS* been the MacGuffin, since the start of the saga. Good thing he had the computer port to shut down the trash compactor. Or that little claw thing to wrestle Yoda for the lamp. Or the fire extinguisher on Bespin. Or the buzz saw on Endor. Or the. . . .

ummm... according to this logic, God forbid there should be any sort of `progress`(an ugly word, I know) in the quality of some prequels made more than 20 years later.

... as for the popularity, equalling `man on the street loving it`... according to this logic, we should all worship Britney Spears and N`Sync, because they can attract HUGE crowds no matter how crappy they are - Britney can probably fart on stage, and there`ll always be, like, thousands eager to find out what it smells like.

I`m going out on a limb here, but one of my favourite films, `Amadeus`, should teach you a very valuable lesson - when you see the desperate Salieri, incapable to comprehend how come he`s all but forgotten, despite his boasting `I was one of the most famous composers in Europe!`, `Everybody liked me!`

Now, to go back on course, my vote is and will always stay for the original trilogy. Revisionism is never good, whether it`s cultural or historical, and, by Jove, I`ve seen how ugly and dangerous of a policy it can be.

Very good post, El-Kabong!

To the topic: I would like to see all the different versions on DVD, but I'll be happy with the new "final cut", that will be released. I have the original versions and special editions on laserdisc, the final cuts can be on DVD.

Ok, wasn't funny the in the other thread, less funny here. Originality is a GOOD thing...

I disagree. It is more like this:

1% vocal internet whiners- will bitch about anything Star Wars
99% general movie watching public- don't really care

The SEs were a HUGE success when they were released into theaters and so were both prequels. But like anything else there is a vocal minority that pisses and moans about anything.

Here is internet math:

overwhelming majority of people have no idea what an internet message board is, and as such the vast majority is silent. BUT they do "vote" with their dollars, and come the release of this set in Sept, they will vote BIG.

ouch! My backside is stinging!

I thought PlayItAgainSam put it well, but that's just my opinion. Eh, maybe it's just that time of the month for me.

I would say that there is merit in Britney's and N'Synch music, to lots of people even if it is not my cup of tea. There is no denying that people LIKE these artists. Now it's easy to be a music snob and dismiss anything that is not your tastes, just as it is easy to be a movie snob. But the facts are indisputable: THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO LIKE THE MUSIC OF THE AFOREMENTIONED ARTISTS.

Just as there are millions of fans of both the SE's and the PT. Now you can say these movies suck, but why why why why go into a discussion about SW when YOU DON'T LIKE IT? Do you cruise the Britney Spears boards crapping all over the place? I think the truth is this:

Many of the PT and OT's detractors secretly like these movies. BUT since the trendy popular internet opinion of them is that they are crap, they must agree to fit in to the snooty critic mold. They come in to see if the pendulum of pop opinion is swinging so that they will be able to say they DO in fact like these movies.

Well said Jim, very well said.

My apologies for threadcrapping. The discussion of whether Ep.1-3 suck is up to the individual. Like a painting, some people like some styles, some do not. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say. ...shutting up...

and depending upon where you shop

99% will prefer to purchase their Star Wars sets in Full Screen
1% will be anal enough to make a stink to anyone in earshot about how this compromises the experience.

to which
another 27% will respond "oh get over it.
it's still Star Wars. and why would you want to watch a smaller picture for a big movie like this?"

And *THIS*, right here is the root of the problem. When you get right down to it, Star Wars is nothing more than a saturday morning movie serial. A big, overblown multi-million dollar movie serial, but a serial nonetheless.

It is NOT some big important drama, with important social issues and oscar winning acting and deep meaningful storys on the human condition. Why some people try and atribute these qualities to Star Wars is beyond me.

It is light fluff. Always has been, always will be. Cheesy acting, simple (yet entertaining) plots and great action pieces. To expect more from these films is setting yourself up for a disapointment.



And yet again the Movie Snob shows it's ugly head. "Popular things are CRAP! Only low budget art house films, independent bands that nobody has ever heard of, and cult television shows on obscure networks are the ONLY true forms of art. If more than three people have seen or heard of The Work Of Art, then it's too mainstream and must be shunned!"

Please - what does Britney put Subliminal Mind Control messages in all her songs? If not, then there must be SOME reason that people find pleasure in her music. *YOU* may not like it (I dont) - but you cant deny that it must be hitting true for some people.

One really bad Star Wars movie that makes HUGE box office could be chalked up to a fluke. However, 15 years and and three "shitty" Star Wars movies (Jedi, Menace and Clones) later , and yet somehow nobody seems to have noticed that they're being had?

No - the fact is that Movie Snob Internet Geeks cant own up idea that Star Wars doesn't suck. Deal with it.

I think this is the point that really makes it. If people had been burned that bad by TPM, then AOTC wouldn't have done nearly as well as it did. I do enjoy all five films, but there are scenes that I honestly think that I could have walked off the street, with no moviemaking experience, and directed just a smidge better. Lucas is not a "people" person, he's an idea person, and he's admitted this himself.

But to constantly harp on the PT is start to get a little tiresome. Five years later, a lot of the ideas started in TPM are starting to show up*, and AOTC was a heck of a jump up in quality from TPM. I honestly have pretty high hopes for Ep 3, even though I know I could be setting myself up for disappointment.

Give them a little time to settle, I bet you'll start to appreciate them a bit more.

*spoilers

Don't be a jackass, and pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe you should read again the example i just gave you, about Salieri. I am not saying that popular things are NECESSARILY crap. I am just saying that popularity does not automatically equal value, and to think otherwise is just "stealing your own hat".

The original trilogy was campy, but it was new, original (in execution, at least) and funny at the time it was made. That's another thing - it came at the right time. The second trilogy is *tired* - neither original, nor funny (unless you're one of those who believe Jar-Jar is funny), and it came at a time when there's much more being offered in terms of action, SF, SFX and fantasy, from all around the globe.

Hence, altering the OT to make it fall in line more with the prequels would be a "faux pas" of galactic proportions, and a demeaning gesture for a true artist (which Lucas certainly used to be), no matter how much tie-ins with McDonald's you can establish, and how many fans you lead into hysteria.