tonymontana313

By the way, are Christian rappers "thugs" as well?

tsohg

Yes of course they are you know DC Talk be slappin up them bitches in the choir and takin money out of the collection plate to buy weed.

wm lopez

Here's something else that had me thinking after watching the Rap Doc.
When 9-11 happened why didn't none of these Scarface wannabees step forward and agree when Bush went after Sadam?
Why did only the Country music stars seem to be the only entertainers that wanted to do what Tony Montana would do?
If fact I remember seeing P. Diddy say he was againest going there.
Tony Montana killed Frank Lopez because you sent a goon squad after him. Tony killed his best friend for banging his sister.
What would Tony have done if his mama was in the Twin Towers?
So much for these Rappers and their macho Thug Life.

Giantrobo

Superfly sent many black youths to jail during the 70's.

Just in case it hasn't been mentioned....I didn't care enough to go through the posts.

scroll2b

That's assuming Saddam had anything to do with it, which he didn't. Of course, the Bush administration would like to have us think so, without fully proving it. Whatever happened to the 14 hijackers from Saudi Arabia? Whatever happened to capturing Osama? And who cares about country music stars!?

mzupeman2

Aren't you guys getting a little off topic :P

Dabaomb

well said.

Dabaomb

Did you read my post at all or try clickin' on any of the links that I posted? I said that there's aHUGE difference between TRUE hip hop and what the media and general public perceive to be hip hop. 90+% of the so called rap music has NOTHING to do with hip hop.

I honestly don't watch MTV anymore so I can't vouch for videos out there. But watch a video from one of the groups/EMCEES (notice I didn't say rappers) that I mentioned and you'll see what true hip hop is all about. Go watch a video by the Roots, Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples, KRS-1, etc.

Believe me. The true Hip hop culture has a POSITIVE attitude. If you ever go to a true hip hop jam (with emcees, djs, b-boys, and graf artists), you'll have a completely different view of what hip hop is really all about.

Dabaomb

Dabaomb

No, VIOLENT rappers are in the minority. The shootings that you see in the media are the result of 2 rival record labels. (1) Murda Inc which is a part of Def Jam Music and is headed by Irv Gotti (biggest rapper under contract is Ja Rule) and (2) Shady Interscope Records with the likes of Eminem and 50 Cent under contract.

I admit that a lot of mainstream "rappers" talk about violence and whatnot but it's the extreme minority that go to these extremes of actually shootin' and killin' each other.

Most rappers that have beef with each other will usually battle it out in their songs (e.g. KRS-1 vs. Emcee Shan in the 80s....see the 2 songs "The Bridge" and "The Bridge is Over" and more recently Nas Vs. Jay-Z).

If you go to a straight hip hop jam, hip hop artists that have beef with each other will battle it out in their respected element (e.g. an emcee will have a flow battle with each other like in the movie 8 Mile). B-boys will have a b-boy battle like in the movie Beat Street (the scene in the Roxy where the Rock Steady Crew battled the NYC Breakers). Violence rarely if ever breaks out at a straight hip hop jam (I used to go to many durin' my college days, esp. b-boy jams, and I NEVER witnessed any violence.....the farthest it goes is a lot of trash talkin' and then the 2 parties will settle it out by havin' a b-boy battle in the dance circle).


I will agree with your last statement that mainstream rap in some cases has had a negative impact on society. But true hip hop has only had a positive influence.

Dabaomb

u don't believe him? u've obviously have never passed through a ghetto. Not everyone in the ghetto turns out bad. True, many will go bad as a result of their environment, but many like tsohg will try to better themselves and get out of the ghetto.

I mean, how farfetched is it to believe that?

Hokeyboy

I like when suburban white people use the phrase "phat rekkids."

That really makes me smile.

"Phat rekkids."

Hee-hee!

PixyJunket

Hey.. I've said that before..

Of course, I have expensive DJ equipment so I think I have the right to say it. Heh.

mzupeman2

You know a lot of people here may be expressing a strong opinion based on whether or not they care for hip hop music or not. i really don't see (many) people being racist on this thread at all. I mean you can't tell me that there's as much shootings and murders in rock and roll, country, whatever, as there is in the hip-hop, rap community. I said it before and I'll say it again: Just because somebody points out the obvious, doesn't make them a racist. I mean if I say 'well Roseanne Barr is fat', you're not seriously going to tell me im very incensitive to fat people in general just because I gave an opinion that I happen to think 'hey she's fat'. This is no different. And many people in here are no different. Just because 'some' of you in here are into hip hop... we have a huge variety here. We have the downright hardcore hip hop fans who are here to drill us with their extensive 150 page booklet on the history of it, and the other guys who DJ, and the other guys who just listen to it. Just because you're not involved in gangs or shootings, doesn't mean that you have the right to stand up for the entire world of hip hop and say 'hey, its not like that'. Your life is different than anybody elses obviously, and for the people who actually made it big... they seem to be mixed up in a lot of bad shit. You're all so quick to make this about 'whos racist' instead of trying to really point out if their opinions, and my opinion, is valid or not. Oh by the way, did I mention that C-Murder is going to jail serving a life sentence for gunning down a 16 year old? Yeah... when was the last time Billy Corgan went to a rural neighborhood and started shooting?

sol4real

All forms of music have and will continue to have a violent stench attached to it. NO FOURM OF MUSIC IS EXEPMPT FROM THIS. Now for the mainstream rap has the limelight and this forces people to be super critical of rap. I’ll be the first, second, or third to admit that it may be the most violent of all forms of music, but then again I’m part of the mainstream-most of the time. Those who are overcritical of others are the most who have something to hide.

mzupeman2

Sure but there's a line somewhere, when a rock band is talking about kicking somebodies ass for running their mouth. And there's a difference when you say you want to kill somebody. Hell, even on DMX's new album (which I like)... there was a quick skit about these guys starting to fight verbally and instead of getting down to fighting. One of the guys pulled out a gun, and killed the other guy dead. The last words you heard from the guy before getting plugged was something like 'man watcha you need a gun fo', this aint no gun fight mutha ****a!'. Then BAM, guy went down. I didn't find it amusing. It doesn't show 'dont **** with me' or 'im a bad mutha'....its just some dude was who too much of a numbskull to fight man to man and use a trigger instead. I like some rap, as long as it's something that truly does sound pretty good, and DMX happens to be one of those rappers. Most the other rappers all sound alike. But even still, it just shows how messed up things can be. Very violent indeed! It's not just because rap is now in the limelight. It's because rap is the most violent kind of music, maybe for the exception of oldtime radio back when there were real gangsters in the 1920s, 1930's, whatever. Rap is the most violent field of music inside AND outside of the studio, since real mobsters ran around big cities years ago.

demonio

I don't want to understand the hip-hop community, infact I could care less about Rap and bullshit like that in general.

Dabaomb

You're entitle to your opinion as to what you like or don't like. You like DMX and you have that right (I for one don't like him cuz he knows nothing of the true hip hop culture. He's stated that he only started "rappin'" to get girls. It's my opinion not to like him.

You say that most rappers sound alike? Again, that's your opinion and I disagree. I'm not a fan of country or rock music but I'm not gonna say that all country music sounds the same just cuz I'm not a fan of it. I'm not gonna comment on something that I don't know enough about to comment on.

You're makin' all these broadbased statements to something that you haven't done a lot of research on. If you wanna debate or were ever involved with debate, you'll know that you should do some research before jumpin' into a debate.

Add you keep sayin' that everyone's callin' u a racist. I don't see ne1 callin' u a racist here (I'm surely not).

Dabaomb

Again, that's your right not to care about rap and the hip hop community. But don't condemn something you don't know about cuz that's just plain ignorance.

Everyone on this board is so quick to get down someone's throat for preferrin' full screen over widescreen. Ppl have their right to their opinions. The best we can do is try to educate ppl on the benefits of widescreen vs. fullscreen. It's up to those ppl to decide whether or not they wanna listen to your advice.

Ppl term ppl that prefer fullscreen over widescreen Joe 6-Pack cuz they don't know the benefits of widescreen.

In much the same way, all I can do is try to educate you on hip hop and if you choose not to listen to my advice then that's your right.

And for those that don't know about the hip hop culture then you are a Joe 6-Pack when it comes to the hip hop culture.

mzupeman2

I never said who but there's a few people here who are clearly pretty much claiming some people are racist. And whether they were talking about me, or somebody else, i really don't seen anybody being all that racist, jsut more opinionated on music. And my statements are valid about what's going on with rap or hip hops world... it doesn't take an einstein to read a book to understand that there's gangs and killing and shootings and etc and so on and so forth. There's always something in the news about a shooting, or somebody dying, who is in the business of rap, hip hop, whatever. My points wouldn't be valid if there was no evidence of such explicit violence in the world of hip hop, and rap, but there is. Try asking Biggie or 2 Pac or Jay if the world of hip hop or rap, is really not as bad as people make it out to be.

Dabaomb

As with most things, you only hear about the bad news and not the good news.

mzupeman2

Isn't that the idea of this thread? The influence between 'hip hop' and 'scarface'? It all boils down to the fact that a lot of these rappers and hip hoppers who are famous are all hailing scarface and are like, thanking the movie for an influence. For what? By stepping on all the people you can to get the top? Doing crack? Killing people? Joining a gang? I realize there is a lot of good things in hip hop/rap. But this conversation is focusing more on the fact that, how can people claim scarface to be like a 'bible' when its all about crime and greed. Don't turn this whole thing into a debate about rap/hiphop in general. This is about examining the heads of these rappers who think of themselves to be gangsters because they can show up on MTV with phat rides and tons of almost naked women dancing erotically and flashing huge diamonds and money in our faces during a song that talks about either killing somebody, living life large as a gangsta, or how he 'hits it' with some woman/women, and outside of their 'gangster styled' videos go ahead and portray to some extent being a gangster and being involved with shootings and murders and such in real life. I realize there is a very fine line here when talking about hip/hop and rap in general. I don't think that everybody in that business is that way. I realize tehre are tons of people in the business who are cool and clean and etc. But that still doesn't excuse the FACT, that there are more gang related killings in THAT specific industry, than in any other music genre. That's a fact, it's not some assumption.

NearysEpiphany

Damn, mzupeman, you'd think all the things you just said would be obvious.

According to some of these people, no one can make a statement about anything without 1,000 different qualifiers. Like we don't understand that there are exceptions to every rule.

There are people who don't understand that some degree of generalization is necessary in life...it's a matter of practicality. But it's been drilled into their heads from Kindergarten on that generalization is bad, with no lesson on how to distinguish the extremes.

Here's an example of an unreasonable generalization: "All black people are poor, unedeucated, and completely worthless."

Here's an example of a reasonable generalization: "The rap/hip hop/whatever industry is more violent, figuratively and literally, than the other music industries."

mzupeman2

Exactly what I'm trying to say. I say that there are rappers and hip hoppers in the industry who simply are doing all of the wrong things, such as crime and gangs and killings and shooting etc etc etc, and I hear: "Always the bad never the good...." and "It's amazing how narrow minded some people are in here, I dont know if they're being racist or not..." Many of the arguments standing up for this genre of music are solely arguments saying 'well you can't generalize' and 'you don't know what your talking about'. I still have not seen one argument that has said anything like:
"Well, you are wrong. The rap and/or hip-hop industry isn't involved with gangs or drugs or murder. It's all just an image to glorify their wealth as a rich individual to show their popularity."
I HAVE seen people say the 'tough' act is for their image, but not one person has been able to tell me factually that these horrible gangster and murderous individuals, do not exist more so in this genre than any other genre. They can't because it's quite obvious when 2 Pac clearly was a member of the crips, and was gunned down due to gang related differences. Why else would 50 Cent be under questioning about a shooting about a month ago. Why is C-Murder going to jail for a lifetime sentence for killing a 16 year old? Why is Biggie dead? Maybe not because of a gang, who knows? But he's still just as gone, and not by natural causes. Why is that man from Run DMC dead? All a coincidence? No! For certain individuals to run AROUND the arguments I've been making and say 'dont generalize, as I take offense because I work in the industry' or 'all you can talk about is the good', is nothing more than a clever attempt to stand up for a genre of music they believe in. For the one individual to actually tell me I was going on about something I don't know about, maybe you should consider reading up on all these guys you idolize instead of telling me in an intelligent manner I'm stupid. 2 Pac, Biggie, Jay, C-Murder, and all of the other unmentionables as the list goes on... these are FACTUAL news stories. These aren't myths or urban legends. Real people are involved in actual street gangs and real people are dying! And my point is. OF COURSE these rappers on the interviews are saying 'uh, i learned a lot from Tony Montana, how not to be like him'. Which is a nice way of saying 'Im rich and famous and Im not getting caught like he did.' So please, if you're going to tell me that my facts are wrong... I'd love to hear you say so.

Dabaomb

First of all, you're obviously referring to me so put my name in the post. Secondly, don't put words into my mouth. I DON'T idolize any of these "rappers." I don't even like the rappers that you listed who were involved with street gangs. The only rapper that you listed who actually knew what hip hop was was "The Man from Run DMC" better known as Jam Master Jay. Run DMC were hip hop pioneers. Notice that they're from the early 80s before all this gansta crap started goin' mainstream. Jay was a good man, he just got caught up in some crap cuz he helped discover 50 Cent. Also, I DON'T idolize anyone.

I originally posted cuz I wanted to enlighten ppl on what true hip hop was. Many ppl here don't care about the FACTS that I stated cuz they already have this negative image of what the media and general public perceives as hip hop branded in their minds. I hope that I was able to open the eyes of a few ppl, but if not so be it.

I got into hip hop cuz of all the positive vibes and I'm a Chinese American. I'm not black or from the ghetto. True hip hop is universal and I can GUARANTEE you that I know more about Hip Hop than 99% of the so-called "Rappers" out there.

I don't condone any of the behavior of the likes of Murda Inc. or Shady Interscope Records. I don't condone the violence. But I am adament that all of what you mentioned is the minority.

And in regards to news, the news doesn't always give the full story.

Most of these rappers grew up in the ghetto and were already involved with gangs and unlawful activity PRIOR to becomin' a rapper and esp. prior to becomin' a mainstream rapper. It's not hip hop's fault. Like I've said before, most of these rappers aren't even a part of the true hip hop community cuz true hip hoppers wouldn't result to such activities. They turn to hip hop to escape gangs, drugs, murder, etc. In contrast, most of these rappers turned to "rap" (notice I didn't say the hip hop culture) cuz they wanna make it big time and make money. They could give a crap about hip hop.

I suggest you read up on the Universal Zulu Nation's Web Site before you make another post. Then you'll find out what true hip hop is all about.

I haven't seen the Def Jam documentary (I will watch it once I get the DVD), but I think that most of those fools don't know crap about hip hop. They're all about the bling and nothing else. I've never even seen Scarface but from what I've heard of the movie, the main character had ZERO relation to hip hop. I agree with everyone here that said that those rappers are fools for placin' that movie on a pedastal. But Universal is smart cuz they included that documentary which is controversal and is helpin' to generate sales cuz of that controversy. It's all about marketin'.

Now, you wanna see some upliftin' and true hip hop heads, go listen to Jurassic 5, Common, The Roots, KRS-1, Dilated Peoples, etc. Hek go buy The Mountain Brothers CD which is a group of 3 CHINESE rappers from Penn State. Those brothers are hip hop, not that crap you see on TV and hear on the radio all day.