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So NOW does everyone understand Scarface's "hip-hop" influence...?

So NOW does everyone understand Scarface's "hip-hop" influence...?

 
Old 10-01-03, 06:27 PM
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Re: it's funny

Originally posted by StarFyre
It takes comments from some people on a forum to truly allow the rest of us to understand and see the idiocy, think-skulled, and moronic attitudes of most of society.

Thanks for making me glad that I'm not any of you! (and that my parents didn't give birth to such a dumbass kid!)

Later all.

Sanjay Shanbhag

BTW: remember, the culture around you, unless you are a total braindead moron (like most of the people out there apparently...) has no real effect on you. People can do whatever they want, dress however, act however, but it's still you who chooses what to do... I've grown up listening, not so much to rap, etc...(mainly reggae, soca, calypso, and classic....yes...don't ask about that strange mix of music)) but I haven't gone around shooting people, etc although after reading some of the thoughts here, I would be much happier if something "happened" to ensure that some people wouldn't be around to breed!
Is Hitler your hero too?
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Old 10-01-03, 06:27 PM
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http://washingtontimes.com/entertain...3348-3515r.htm

Pacino's flashy thug amasses money, power,legions of rap imitators


By Scott Galupo
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Take a scroll down the fashion Web site HipHopCloset.com and you'll find a corner devoted to the "Scarface Collection," a line of pricey T-shirts imprinted with pictures of Al Pacino and his lead-filled "little friend." They're fresh off the press, as seen in rapper 50 Cent's "P.I.M.P." video. Earlier this year, 50 Cent traded lyrical disses with another rapper who calls himself ... Scarface.
Twenty years later, "Scarface" — the movie, which begins an anniversary theatrical run today, not the rapper — is still a touchstone for gangsta subculture, in ways both superficial and substantive.
Mr. Pacino's memorable cocaine kingpin, Tony Montana, is still a pinup boy for hip-hop couture, with his garish chest medallions and flashy threads.
When MTV's "Cribs," a pop update on "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous," tours the opulent digs of rap artists, "Scarface" memorabilia is an omnipresent decorative touch.
The influence doesn't stop at interior design or the drug lord's fashion sense; to this day Tony Montana is an emblem for a glamorously criminal version of the American dream.
"He's an underdog figure," says Charlene Gilbert, a visual media professor at American University and an independent filmmaker.
Freshly arrived ethnic minorities in America have long turned to "quasi-legal" enterprises and outright crime, she says, because that's often the quickest way to the top.
"This is the only means of access they have to real power or status," says Ms. Gilbert, and "Scarface" "struck a chord of familiarity with some hip-hop artists."
"Outside of the drugs, he lived the American dream," says DeVone Holt, a deacon of St. Stephen Baptist Church in Louisville, Ky., and author of "Hip-Hop Slop: The Impact of a Dysfunctional Culture," due in local bookstores this month.
A Cuban refugee, Montana worked his way to the upper echelons of Miami's drug underworld. He wasn't selling widgets, and he had to waste more than a few humans, but Montana had gumption and guts; he lived fast and hard; he made capitalism work for him, on his own terms.
Disenfranchised-feeling blacks were in Montana's thrall when "Scarface," the Brian De Palma-directed remake of Howard Hawks' 1932 classic starring Paul Muni, was released in 1983.
Last year's "Paid in Full," a movie directed by Charles Stone III about a rags-to-ill-gotten-riches kingpin in mid-'80s Harlem, paid tribute to "Scarface's" enduring influence, showing a packed house of young blacks taking in their favorite gangster flick.
The same holds true today: Mr. Holt, who mentors at-risk youth at his church, says he's "amazed" at how many children know the movie but who weren't even born when it first came out.
"Scarface," too, is a now meme in hip-hop lingo: The proper name has been vulgarized to generally mean "gangster," or someone who bases his mack machismo on that of Montana.
In the early days of rap, "Scarface's" one-liners, penned by the director Oliver Stone and mostly unprintable, were sampled by the likes of the Geto Boys and Kool G Rap.
"I knew most of the memorable lines before I even saw the movie," says Mr. Holt.
This past Tuesday, Def Jam released "Music Inspired By 'Scarface,' " a CD collection with songs from Grand Master Flash, Jay-Z and the late Christopher Wallace (aka Notorious B.I.G.), a full-circling that covers old-school hip-hop through to today's most popular rappers.
"Put the drugs on the shelf, nah I couldn't see it / Scarface, King Of New York, I wanna be it," rhymed the latter on "Respect," referring also to Abel Ferrara's "King of New York," starring Christopher Walken as drug kingpin Frank White.
To coincide with the theatrical rerelease, a deluxe "Scarface" DVD reissue is due out Sept. 30. It features a bonus documentary, "Def Jam Presents: Origins of a Hip-Hop Classic," canvassing rappers P. Diddy, Snoop Dog, Eve and Scarface himself to discuss the influence of the 20-year-old movie.
James Miller, an English and American Studies professor at George Washington University, says the influence "Scarface" exerts on black culture is hardly a new thing.
"This isn't the first time that gangster style has captured the imagination of African-American moviegoers," he says, pointing out that as far back as Humphrey Bogart, black Americans have been drawn to noir cinema.
"The Godfather," too, is a favorite for hip-hoppers; and the Corleones' appeal among gangsta rappers is similar to that of Tony Montana. They were ethnic outsiders who played by their own rules — and got swimmingly rich while they were at it.
Cecil Brown, in his recently published book, "Stagolee Shot Billy," says the archetype branches back even further, to the century-old myth surrounding Lee Shelton, the St. Louis "mack" (Anglicized idiom for the French term for pimp: maquereau).
Ballads about Shelton, a beloved "slum lord," traveled under the name "Stagolee," "Stack Lee" or "Stagger Lee."
In 1991, the black directors John Singleton and Mario Van Peebles ("Boyz N the Hood" and "New Jack City," respectively) sought to create more direct and modern portrayals of black urban crime underworlds, providing an alternative to Cuban or Italian surrogates.
But "Scarface" was, and is, the exemplar of its type: the countercultural lord of a vast, cash-rich empire who rises from poverty and goes down in a glorious hail of bullets.
And therein lies the negative rub of "Scarface."
While he says Mr. Pacino's performance is one of the best in movie history, Mr. Holt says, "It's accompanied by one of the most dangerous messages that's ever been perpetuated in cinema." By which he means: It glamorizes crime.
"Hip-hop has a tendency to embrace movies that encapsulate thug life, and 'Scarface' is the quintessential thug life movie," he says.
"Part of what that film does is glorify violence," Ms. Gilbert says. "I think a lot of artists from that time got it and said, 'Yeah, violence sells.' "
Mr. Holt says, "For this young generation that subscribes to hip-hop culture, the greatest danger to embracing 'Scarface' is that they embrace all the sexy and sensational aspects of the movie without paying attention to the ending.
"That's the biggest danger," he says.
Just ask the mothers of Tupac Shakur and Christopher Wallace.
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Old 10-01-03, 06:31 PM
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Yeah, I remember the part about the bible comment. If these rappers are saying a fictional movie about the rise and fall of a drug lord as being the bible, that is pretty sad. It's no secret that these rappers enjoy everything in excess. Most all of the videos shows dozens of nearly naked women flaunting around $100,000+ cars like pieces of meat, rubbing their boob on the hood. Also these same rappers wear gold chains and jewelry and talk about how great, or "bad" they are, or how they can smoke the most dope. Too bad they can't use Scarface more as inspiration to do something PRODUCTIVE and POSTIVE and worth while in their lives. Although it wouldn't be congruent to the plot/story of Scarface, they could use the rags to riches in a different way, i.e. helping others and making a real difference in the world, and not being so self-infatuated with money, women and power?

Also to the person who said hip hop represents love, unity and respect,.. give me a break! All they talk about is, money, spinners, expensive cars, how many girls they get, and how great and powerful they are. Tell me one hip hop/rap video where they are caring for someone else, or helping the community.

Last edited by NaturalMystic79; 10-01-03 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 10-01-03, 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by sol4real
Instead of ridiculing these rappers for idolizing this movie I chose to understand were they are coming from and see things form their point of view. I can relate being born and raised in Detroit in an area were you need to be in the house by 7pm or your just another casualty of the street violence that infects Detroit’s hopeless majority of young black youth. I too took some of Tony Montana’s attitude after seeing this movie back in 86. I loved the way he didn’t take shit from no one and was hungry for success. Now I chose to channel this energy in a way I felt would benefit me in the long run, such as these rappers in this documentary chose to channel this energy. In “Da Hood” you have very tough choices to make and unlike any other city out side the hood these choices could lead to your death in a flash. There’s a saying in the Hood were I’m from “You have to show them that your Hard!” “No one respects you if you Cry,” and living in the hood will make any man cry. I think that it is more constructive to try and understands other people’s circumstances and forced situations than to judge them. If these people have broke laws then by all means let the law run its course, but if you have never lived in the ghetto, or been to the ghetto let those who are in the ghetto continue to express (hip hop) there feelings about the world the way they see it.


Bravo. All members of the Klan, please stand up. Actually, no need to with this thread, thanks very much. Why the administrators don't close this thread, I'll never know.....
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Old 10-01-03, 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by scroll2b
Bravo. All members of the Klan, please stand up. Actually, no need to with this thread, thanks very much. Why the administrators don't close this thread, I'll never know.....
So anyone that disagrees with the Gangsta Rap lifestyle is a Klan member. How very racist of you.
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Old 10-01-03, 06:55 PM
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"So wait, if I believe that not all rappers are violent, I'm naive? So for rappers who aren't violent in their lyrics or the lifestyle they project in public must be beating their wives behind closed doors or something?"


At this point in the game, I'd say your hypothetical non-violent rappers are in the extreme minority, and I'd question why you bother pointing out the rare exception to the rule.

Really, it seems like a cheap smokescreen tactic employed in order to cloud the issue. And the issue is very clear to anyone with a half a brain:

Rap/Hip Hop/Whatever Culture as presented by the mainstream media and adopted by a large percentage of American youth, has not had a positive influence on our society.

I dunno how anyone can doubt this.

Last edited by NearysEpiphany; 10-01-03 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 10-01-03, 07:18 PM
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*Does a double take to see if I'm in the Other forum*
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Old 10-01-03, 07:20 PM
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There are so many intelligent rappers out there that you are closing out by stereotyping the entire genre. Someone like the Rolling Stones could not hold a candle when it comes to lyrics compared to someone like Nas. Just listen to Nas's first album Illmatic and you will understand why it is considered one of the greatest rap albums every made. You dont have to like the music but quit being so biased.
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Old 10-01-03, 07:20 PM
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Re: it's funny

Originally posted by StarFyre
It takes comments from some people on a forum to truly allow the rest of us to understand and see the idiocy, think-skulled, and moronic attitudes of most of society.

Thanks for making me glad that I'm not any of you! (and that my parents didn't give birth to such a dumbass kid!)

Later all.

Sanjay Shanbhag

BTW: remember, the culture around you, unless you are a total braindead moron (like most of the people out there apparently...) has no real effect on you. People can do whatever they want, dress however, act however, but it's still you who chooses what to do... I've grown up listening, not so much to rap, etc...(mainly reggae, soca, calypso, and classic....yes...don't ask about that strange mix of music)) but I haven't gone around shooting people, etc although after reading some of the thoughts here, I would be much happier if something "happened" to ensure that some people wouldn't be around to breed!


awww, this is classic...




what a joke...




thanx for the laugh
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Old 10-01-03, 07:47 PM
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I would take time to defend a culture that I am very much a part of but, I am busy working on my degree, building a house with my WIFE (not baby momma) to really try to plus I would be late for my fulltime job. I will say that there is a little bit of Tony in me, because all my life I have HUSTLED. I grew up in the hood in a shitty two bedroom duplex where my brother I had to look out for broken glass and drug needles when we played football in the yard and I remember watching my dad work two jobs to get enough money to buy a house in a better neighborhood. I remember going to a predominantly white Catholic getting abused by teachers and fighting with other kids but I worked my ass off and by the 6th grade I was class president and had one of the highest GPA's in school. I remember working two fulltime jobs and going to school last year so I could get married and go to Mexico on honeymoon with CASH no charging what so ever.
Bottom line nobody EVER gave me SHIT. I took it when they said I couldn't have it. When people thought I was just another thug because of how I may look or dress I proved to be the most honest hard working, dependable, well mannered person they would ever meet.

I AM HIP HOP! I listen to it dress it talk it and walk it every day of my life and really don't give a damn if anyone understands or likes it. and If that is just not little bit Tony Montana(ish) then I don't know what is.

Also with somemany rap haters here why did you all seem to rush to watch a documentary with rappers in it?
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Old 10-01-03, 08:02 PM
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tsohg, I'll not beat around the bush:

I don't believe half of what you just typed.
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Old 10-01-03, 08:06 PM
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You don't have to, I know my life. I was never looking for your approval. I made my statement just like you made yours. Deal.
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Old 10-01-03, 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by PJsig08
Actually, when I started this topic, I was hoping it would lead to this. While I agree that rap (and the media) present a questionable image and message, WAY too many people here have way too much animosity dealing with a topic they know nothing about.
How do you know that the people commenting know nothing about rappers.

People have animosity dealing with this topic because we know alot about low life rappers and there culture.
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Old 10-01-03, 08:17 PM
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What more can I say.....

I listen to reggae, soca, r and b, and other forms of popular music. Yes I've heard hip hop and most have a negative view on the world. Am I happy with it? No. However, saying that all Black people love hip hop and are into the gangsta life, is idiotic in my opinion. I'm not attacking anyone here, but don't lump everyone together in the same basket please.
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Old 10-01-03, 08:19 PM
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Jeez, make a comment about rap lifestyle and all of a sudden every Tony Mantana wannabe is working on his PHD, works at the soup kitchen on holidays and always opens the door for old ladies.

Tsog posted this earlier:
"Was at a street festival and of course "thugs" love to shoot at public events because they can only find whoever they have "beef" with at large crowded public events full of innocent people.

Anyway I have learned to NEVER just start running wildly in a pack of people during a shooting. I got my wife and I low to the ground and started moving sideways into a nearby alley to hell with getting shot in the back or trampled over."



What does this tell you about the culture that you live in? Keep in mind I'm not judging you as a person or blaming you personally for all the worlds problems...

...but it would be helpful if you owned up a bit and condemned this kind of lifestyle instead of seeking ways to rationalize bad behavior.
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Old 10-01-03, 08:41 PM
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NEVER have you read me condoning bad behavior. The post you quoted shows me not aprroving of such. There IS quite a bit wrong with rap I never said there wasn't. But at the same time I live in world you read about. I see the good that lies in Hip Hop along with loathing the bad. I live the greatest country in the world buy I am not happy with all of its actions and policies over the course of its history. But do I believe every American is a bad person? No. You generalizing is sickening.

Jeez, make a comment about rap lifestyle and all of a sudden every Tony Mantana wannabe is working on his PHD, works at the soup kitchen on holidays and always opens the door for old ladies.
Ok ok you got me. Really doe me and my posse be bustin shots and slangin crack like KFC sell chicken. SHeeeIT I gotta feed my 6 kids by 8 different women. I sho hope my welfare check comes cuz need some bling put on my new Caddy. Cuz you know I gotta look fly for dat drive by next week.

There is that a more believable story for you? Judging from what you have posted thus far probably.

Last edited by tsohg; 10-01-03 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 10-01-03, 08:52 PM
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What happened to the good old days when little boys across the country idolized Inspector Harry Callahan ?


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Old 10-01-03, 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by NearysEpiphany
Jeez, make a comment about rap lifestyle and all of a sudden every Tony Mantana wannabe is working on his PHD, works at the soup kitchen on holidays and always opens the door for old ladies.

Tsog posted this earlier:
"Was at a street festival and of course "thugs" love to shoot at public events because they can only find whoever they have "beef" with at large crowded public events full of innocent people.

Anyway I have learned to NEVER just start running wildly in a pack of people during a shooting. I got my wife and I low to the ground and started moving sideways into a nearby alley to hell with getting shot in the back or trampled over."



What does this tell you about the culture that you live in? Keep in mind I'm not judging you as a person or blaming you personally for all the worlds problems...

...but it would be helpful if you owned up a bit and condemned this kind of lifestyle instead of seeking ways to rationalize bad behavior.
Also the street festival I was at WAS NOT a hip hop event. Funny how you ASSumed it was also I'm not sure if the shooters were rappers or not but I guess in you eyes they had to be cause ONLY rappers are thugs.
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Old 10-01-03, 10:23 PM
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After watching that BS "special feature" on the DVD, I can only shake my head. Yes, I liked Scarface, but Tony Montana is NOT a role model for any sane human being. For those "gangstas" who say Scarface inspired them, how so? Because a minority came into the USA with nothing and died a drug kingpin?

I remember one guy calling Scarface is "the f'n bible". If that's the way you want to live your life, I feel pity on you.

darkside wrote: "Hey, at least Scarface the rapper had it on Laserdisc. He would be loved around here"

Yes, but he also had the full-frame version of Murder by Numbers. Boo him!!!
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Old 10-01-03, 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by tonymontana313
There are so many intelligent rappers out there that you are closing out by stereotyping the entire genre. Someone like the Rolling Stones could not hold a candle when it comes to lyrics compared to someone like Nas. Just listen to Nas's first album Illmatic and you will understand why it is considered one of the greatest rap albums every made. You dont have to like the music but quit being so biased.
I normally don't post, just lurk, but you have got to be kidding me.
Now, I'm not doubting Nas's intelligence, talent or anything, but ranking him above the Stones is damn near close to blasphemy.
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Old 10-01-03, 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Dean Kousoulas
darkside wrote: "Hey, at least Scarface the rapper had it on Laserdisc. He would be loved around here"

Yes, but he also had the full-frame version of Murder by Numbers. Boo him!!!
I missed that.
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Old 10-01-03, 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by darkside
I missed that.
Not to pile on...but he also said "I hate them black bars on the side of the screen."
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Old 10-01-03, 11:29 PM
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"Ok ok you got me. Really doe me and my posse be bustin shots and slangin crack like KFC sell chicken. SHeeeIT I gotta feed my 6 kids by 8 different women. I sho hope my welfare check comes cuz need some bling put on my new Caddy. Cuz you know I gotta look fly for dat drive by next week.

There is that a more believable story for you? Judging from what you have posted thus far probably."



Yes, that's very believable. The fact that you were trying to exaggerate makes it's believability all the more sad.

Here's where the problem lies: Instead of blaming people who act like your characature above and condemning their lifestyle choices you lash out at those who DO. You are, in effect, an enabler for their behavior.

Why? You already laboriously stated your lifestyle choices (full time employment, education, etc etc etc), so it's obvious we're not talking about you.

Or are we? Answer me this: Do you consider the fictional character Tony Montana someone to look up to, admire, or emulate?
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Old 10-01-03, 11:57 PM
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Love how you just can't believe that anybody affiliated with can be educated and not a thug.

The whole point of me posting is I am tired of some people on this board who generalize hip hop. If you are talk about hip hop you are referring to me because I identify with it no I don't like every aspect of it. If you believe that my exaggeration is more realistic then I truely feel sorry for you and you should get out and socialize with different people more.

As far as Tony being someone to look up to No HE is not but he does have certain traits that can be looked up to. I don't understand why you refuse to see that. I guess I am also the only person here that thinks Darth Vader,Don Corleone, and Michael Myers have a little bit of "coolness" to them.

By your logic:

All Muslims are terrorist. Cause those are to only ones that seem to get on tv.

Hip Hop is solely to blame for the decay of American society

Jews are some stingy bastards who control and push a Liberal Media.

Republicans are rich self serving racist.

Hey if having simplistic views gets you through life I say go for it. It's a free country.
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Old 10-02-03, 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by DementedDan
I normally don't post, just lurk, but you have got to be kidding me.
Now, I'm not doubting Nas's intelligence, talent or anything, but ranking him above the Stones is damn near close to blasphemy.

I am assuming you have never listened to nas to make that statement while I have listened to the rolling stones. I am not doubting the cultural impact the Stones have made but the LYRICS of their songs dont do anything for me. Listen to Illmatic which is considered the classic hip hop album of the last decade.
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