Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
#126
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Less is more. Always leave them wanting more.
The cliches really apply here. Having 6 Spider-Man titles diluted all of them. It diluted the focus, it diluted the talent, and it diluted how special each title was every time another one was started.
There should NEVER have been a 4th Spider-Man title, let alone anything after that.
The cliches really apply here. Having 6 Spider-Man titles diluted all of them. It diluted the focus, it diluted the talent, and it diluted how special each title was every time another one was started.
There should NEVER have been a 4th Spider-Man title, let alone anything after that.
Batman? Detective Comics and Batman, plus The Brave and the Bold. Plenty. Superman? Action and Superman.
Kids couldn't keep up, and I doubt many tried after a few months. Adults did until they just got fed up.
But once you get a little older, almost to middle school, you start getting more picky, and like you said, you start to subconsciously notice the quality being spread too thin. At one point there was Uncanny X-Men, X-Factor, New Mutants, then X-Men, and X-Force and I just stuck with whatever Jim Lee was illustrating, which was adjectiveless X-Men. But the stories started to get really basic, and later on I found out it was because Chris Claremont left after the first three issues, and Jim Lee insisted on being given more control over the story. The result was some very so-so stories and more splash pages, instead of necessary multiple paneled pages. I stopped reading when Ghost Rider showed up for no real good reason.
Let’s not forget Marvel’s earlier efforts at launching continuity-free or continuity-lite lines like New Universe, Marvel 2099, and Marvel MC2.
These days, Adventures type comics seem to be the most accessible route for younger children. Easily digestible stories, no heavy continuity. But I see no gateway for transitioning from those types of titles to being a monthly reader of the “mainstream” superhero books.
These days, Adventures type comics seem to be the most accessible route for younger children. Easily digestible stories, no heavy continuity. But I see no gateway for transitioning from those types of titles to being a monthly reader of the “mainstream” superhero books.
I thought DC's All-Star line was also a good attempt at an "Ultimates"-like approach. But they couldn't even get the comics out on time, and Frank Miller seemed to go crazy at this time.
American superhero comics just feel too messy to get into.
#127
Banned
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
We are still waiting for issue #11 of that All-Star Batman series.
#128
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Less is more. Always leave them wanting more.
The cliches really apply here. Having 6 Spider-Man titles diluted all of them. It diluted the focus, it diluted the talent, and it diluted how special each title was every time another one was started.
There should NEVER have been a 4th Spider-Man title, let alone anything after that.
Batman? Detective Comics and Batman, plus The Brave and the Bold. Plenty. Superman? Action and Superman.
Kids couldn't keep up, and I doubt many tried after a few months. Adults did until they just got fed up.
The cliches really apply here. Having 6 Spider-Man titles diluted all of them. It diluted the focus, it diluted the talent, and it diluted how special each title was every time another one was started.
There should NEVER have been a 4th Spider-Man title, let alone anything after that.
Batman? Detective Comics and Batman, plus The Brave and the Bold. Plenty. Superman? Action and Superman.
Kids couldn't keep up, and I doubt many tried after a few months. Adults did until they just got fed up.
But as we got deeper into the 90s, the prices kept going up, the lines got extended beyond reason (did we really need three goddamned Punisher books?), there were too many crossovers and miniseries, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, and Punisher showing up in every third-tier title, and it just got kind of ridiculous. There weren't enough competent writers or artists to keep up with all of this shit, the art was hideous -- either awful manga-inspired crap or Image-inspired crap -- and the stories were somewhere between terrible and forgettable.
#129
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
For what its worth Batman and Superman are back to 2 title each these days.
#130
Banned
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Not really. DC is releasing Batman and Superman Giants bi-monthly (used to be monthly) and people get them (like me) because of the new stories. Batman also has Batman and the Outsiders, Batman Beyond (derivative but with Bruce Wayne still on the book) and the upcoming Tom King book Batman and Catwoman. Then there are all those Batman mini-series released almost every quarter. In addition, there's the Batman/Superman monthly book and Justice League, which has both of them.
#131
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
They made it all the way to #11!? I thought they threw in the towel at around #6. I remember the last issue I flipped through was where either Batgirl was calling people “c****” or where Batman and Black Canary has sex in the street. With their masks on.
But as we got deeper into the 90s, the prices kept going up, the lines got extended beyond reason...There weren't enough competent writers or artists to keep up with all of this shit, the art was hideous -- either awful manga-inspired crap or Image-inspired crap -- and the stories were somewhere between terrible and forgettable.
I think the early-to-mid 90s ended up turning off a sizable portion of comic readers. The spectator gimmick events hooked us and we bought all the issues up because we thought they were going to be worth thousands of dollars in the future. I remember at the time I didn’t even enjoy Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend or the Death of Superman/Reign of Supermen/Return of Superman. DC and Marvel were fueling the spectator market while at the expense of quality, and all for short term gains because later we got the industry implosion.
I blame “A Death in the Family.” They took a throwaway line in TDKR and tried to it force it into the regular continuity while also trying to make news headlines. And it’s an awful story.
Gimmick event over quality. It’s sad because the the Mike W. Barr/Alan Grant stories featuring Batman and the Jason Todd Robin were great.
But as we got deeper into the 90s, the prices kept going up, the lines got extended beyond reason...There weren't enough competent writers or artists to keep up with all of this shit, the art was hideous -- either awful manga-inspired crap or Image-inspired crap -- and the stories were somewhere between terrible and forgettable.
I blame “A Death in the Family.” They took a throwaway line in TDKR and tried to it force it into the regular continuity while also trying to make news headlines. And it’s an awful story.
Gimmick event over quality. It’s sad because the the Mike W. Barr/Alan Grant stories featuring Batman and the Jason Todd Robin were great.
#132
Banned
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
They made it all the way to #11!? I thought they threw in the towel at around #6. I remember the last issue I flipped through was where either Batgirl was calling people “c****” or where Batman and Black Canary has sex in the street. With their masks on.
I think the early-to-mid 90s ended up turning off a sizable portion of comic readers. The spectator gimmick events hooked us and we bought all the issues up because we thought they were going to be worth thousands of dollars in the future. I remember at the time I didn’t even enjoy Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend or the Death of Superman/Reign of Supermen/Return of Superman. DC and Marvel were fueling the spectator market while at the expense of quality, and all for short term gains because later we got the industry implosion.
I blame “A Death in the Family.” They took a throwaway line in TDKR and tried to it force it into the regular continuity while also trying to make news headlines. And it’s an awful story.
Gimmick event over quality. It’s sad because the the Mike W. Barr/Alan Grant stories featuring Batman and the Jason Todd Robin were great.
I think the early-to-mid 90s ended up turning off a sizable portion of comic readers. The spectator gimmick events hooked us and we bought all the issues up because we thought they were going to be worth thousands of dollars in the future. I remember at the time I didn’t even enjoy Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend or the Death of Superman/Reign of Supermen/Return of Superman. DC and Marvel were fueling the spectator market while at the expense of quality, and all for short term gains because later we got the industry implosion.
I blame “A Death in the Family.” They took a throwaway line in TDKR and tried to it force it into the regular continuity while also trying to make news headlines. And it’s an awful story.
Gimmick event over quality. It’s sad because the the Mike W. Barr/Alan Grant stories featuring Batman and the Jason Todd Robin were great.
#133
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
It's odd too because if you want to put together an "all star" team for Batman, you could do worse than Miller and Lee. And it was just so terrible. But it's just probable that you can't put that genie back in the bottle: Claremont returning to X-men for the umpteenth time, for instance.
#134
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
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Did we They ever show Batman being Bruce Wayne outside of the first issue?
Miller was becoming a parody of himself by this time, IMO. I don’t if he was trying to keep up with edginess of writers like Mark Millar and Grant Morrison but it was very try-hard.
But I also think that Jim Lee’s conventional art style made it worse, strange as that sounds.
I think if the art would have been done by a DKR-era Frank Miller, it would have at least meshed well with the very unconventional approach to the story.
I think Mazzucelli’s work is amazing, but I’d go as far as to say that Year One would have been better had Miller also illustrated it.
Did we They ever show Batman being Bruce Wayne outside of the first issue?
Miller was becoming a parody of himself by this time, IMO. I don’t if he was trying to keep up with edginess of writers like Mark Millar and Grant Morrison but it was very try-hard.
But I also think that Jim Lee’s conventional art style made it worse, strange as that sounds.
I think if the art would have been done by a DKR-era Frank Miller, it would have at least meshed well with the very unconventional approach to the story.
I think Mazzucelli’s work is amazing, but I’d go as far as to say that Year One would have been better had Miller also illustrated it.
#136
DVD Talk Legend
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Batman has two main titles and shares a title with Superman. Plus, many many related mini-series.
Superman has had three titles for a while - The two main titles and then sharing a book with someone else (Wonder Woman and then Batman during the New 52 and now just Batman Post-Rebirth).
Superman has had three titles for a while - The two main titles and then sharing a book with someone else (Wonder Woman and then Batman during the New 52 and now just Batman Post-Rebirth).
#137
#138
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Marvel and DC have made it a real pain in the ass to sort through all of the miniseries they pump out, in addition to the constant stream of re-launches, reboots, re-numberings, and crossover events.
When I look at the clusterfuck that the Marvel and DC universes have become, I'm so glad I bailed on them in the mid-90s when all of this shit was just starting to snowball.
Perfect example is this: Not long ago, I was sort of curious about Jason Aaron's critically acclaimed run on Thor. So I looked up what issues/TPBs I would need to read it and found this: https://www.howtolovecomics.com/2019...reading-order/
What.
The.
Fuck?
Thor: God of Thunder #1-#21
Original Sin #0-5
Original Sin: Thor & Loki The Tenth Realm #5.1-#5.5
Original Sin #6-8
Thor (2014 series) #1-5
Thor (2014 series) Annual #1
Thor (2014 series) #6-8
Secret Wars: Thors #1-4
The Mighty Thor (2015 series) #1-18
The Unworthy Thor #1-5
The Mighty Thor (2015 series) #19-23
Generations: The Unworthy Thor & The Mighty Thor
Thor #700-706
Mighty Thor: At the Gates of Valhalla #1
Thor (2018 series) #1-11
War of the Realms and Thor #12-14
Thor (2018 series) #15-16
King Thor #1-4
Original Sin #0-5
Original Sin: Thor & Loki The Tenth Realm #5.1-#5.5
Original Sin #6-8
Thor (2014 series) #1-5
Thor (2014 series) Annual #1
Thor (2014 series) #6-8
Secret Wars: Thors #1-4
The Mighty Thor (2015 series) #1-18
The Unworthy Thor #1-5
The Mighty Thor (2015 series) #19-23
Generations: The Unworthy Thor & The Mighty Thor
Thor #700-706
Mighty Thor: At the Gates of Valhalla #1
Thor (2018 series) #1-11
War of the Realms and Thor #12-14
Thor (2018 series) #15-16
King Thor #1-4
#139
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
It is ridiculous. Look up something like Unbeatable Squirrel Girl:
https://www.comixology.com/search/se...=squirrel+girl
There's:
Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (2015)
Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (2015-2019)
because they restarted the numbering within the same year. For Squirrel Girl.
https://www.comixology.com/search/se...=squirrel+girl
There's:
Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (2015)
Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (2015-2019)
because they restarted the numbering within the same year. For Squirrel Girl.
#140
Banned
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Marvel’s release schedule starting May 27th
#141
Banned
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Batman has two main titles and shares a title with Superman. Plus, many many related mini-series.
Superman has had three titles for a while - The two main titles and then sharing a book with someone else (Wonder Woman and then Batman during the New 52 and now just Batman Post-Rebirth).
Superman has had three titles for a while - The two main titles and then sharing a book with someone else (Wonder Woman and then Batman during the New 52 and now just Batman Post-Rebirth).
#142
Banned
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Bendis sales haven't been disastrous but they didn't improve like it was expected from the Tomasi run. The problem with the Superman books (and almost every property that Bendis touches that isn't a self-creation) is that he throws away years of character development out the window in order to bring his idea of how the character is supposed to be. One of the things that has infuriated fans is that he aged the very popular Jon Kent from being a preteen to know being a full powered late-teenager. The Super Sons book had a great following and all of that was discarded once Bendis took over. In addition, his Superman stories have been boring and recycling old storylines, like Superman revealing his identity to the world. Bendis Legion book has also been subpar and his Young Justice book started ok but is now another decompression storyline that it's spinning on its wheels.
#143
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
#144
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Join Date: Sep 1999
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Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Bendis sales haven't been disastrous but they didn't improve like it was expected from the Tomasi run. The problem with the Superman books (and almost every property that Bendis touches that isn't a self-creation) is that he throws away years of character development out the window in order to bring his idea of how the character is supposed to be. One of the things that has infuriated fans is that he aged the very popular Jon Kent from being a preteen to know being a full powered late-teenager. The Super Sons book had a great following and all of that was discarded once Bendis took over. In addition, his Superman stories have been boring and recycling old storylines, like Superman revealing his identity to the world. Bendis Legion book has also been subpar and his Young Justice book started ok but is now another decompression storyline that it's spinning on its wheels.
It's no secret that behind the scenes, Bendis is not bringing the audience DC was expecting. They definitely wanted a major hit but, as you said, the Superman titles are pretty much in the same spot as when Tomasi and Jurgens were on the books. And I gotta say, Tomasi's run was excellent. Some of the best Superman writing in a long time. And having Jurgens back on Superman just sweetened the pot.
I don't dislike Bendis' Superman run. I think it's fine. But just that - Fine. It should be much much more. The current Action Comics story arc is just terrible tho. It was the first time I've debated dropping the title.
Last edited by The Valeyard; 05-07-20 at 02:14 PM.
#145
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Bendis sales haven't been disastrous but they didn't improve like it was expected from the Tomasi run. The problem with the Superman books (and almost every property that Bendis touches that isn't a self-creation) is that he throws away years of character development out the window in order to bring his idea of how the character is supposed to be. One of the things that has infuriated fans is that he aged the very popular Jon Kent from being a preteen to know being a full powered late-teenager. The Super Sons book had a great following and all of that was discarded once Bendis took over. In addition, his Superman stories have been boring and recycling old storylines, like Superman revealing his identity to the world. Bendis Legion book has also been subpar and his Young Justice book started ok but is now another decompression storyline that it's spinning on its wheels.
No, wait. Then there was Grant Morrison on Action Comics. I flipped through a TPB of it, but the only story that stuck out to me was the phantom Krypto one.
Alan Moore's Supreme, and Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman are the only modern monthly/bi-monthly Superman stories that I really enjoyed. I've never had a chance to read the Silver Age Superman stories where all the charming stuff comes from (City of Kandor, LOSH, Superboy, Supergirl, Krypto, Fortress of Solitude, etc).
That's too bad that Legion is also not good. The premise of LOSH sounds like a lot of fun. I briefly read Jim Shooter and Francis Manapul' shot run on Legion. Nothing awe-inspiring, but it was fun and they really made it worth the cover price.
#146
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Sorry, rant over. I am slowly catching up via DC Universe (however long that stays around), but like I said before, even for a hardcore fan like me it's really really hard to follow along and figure out reading order without resorting to some kind of list some fan compiles on a different site. Which is ridiculous.
#147
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
The new Legion book has pretty decent reviews overall, don’t just take the word of posters here. I admit I’m way behind and haven’t read much since rebirth, but what I have read (mostly Hawkman and Batman) has been excellent. Well, excellent for big two comics.
#148
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Ha, good or bad I'll get around to reading it, just not at 3.99 a pop. Like Heroes in Crisis I'll probably read it once it gets to DC Universe or is on sale in Comixology (oh, HiC is on sale right now)
#149
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Yeah, I plan to read pretty much every DC book. My nostalgia is so strong for the books and characters, that I resist very little when it all eventually hits that 84 cents or less price.
#150
Challenge Guru & Comic Nerd
Re: Coronavirus: An "Extinction Level Event" for the Direct Market
Here’s a good series of articles that pushback on some of that BS from Brian Hibbs.
https://www.comicsbeat.com/the-coron...lp-us-survive/
https://www.comicsbeat.com/the-coron...lp-us-survive/
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PhantomStranger (05-11-20)