collven

Whether you're paying "installments" or not, you are paying for the phone somehow. Besides, most of the major carriers either have already moved away from contracts or are actively pushing people away from them.

Michael Corvin

Pretty sure most carriers got away from subsidizing phones in the last few years.

There kind of has... from a certain point of view. Up until the 360 and PS3 pushed a longer generational cycle, we were accustomed to new consoles every 5 or so years. Assuming the Neo and X1 upgrade come out next year, you're at a 4 year gap since the X1 and PS4 launched. Xbox > 360 was four years.

Brack

Yeah, it's called the phone service. We already covered that.

Brack

Except newer phones typically have newer operating systems, which aren't always compatible with older phones. It's not just the hardware you're buying.

collven

No, many carriers with contract options added a per-line charge that either isn't there when you buy the phone outright, or costs more for the contract phone.

EinCB

I'm unsure what to do. I want the latest and greatest, but I'm not interested in yearly upgrades. If I purchase a Neo, I would be enabling Sony. I never upgrade my phone unless it breaks.

A new model iPhone is released yearly; you could go to a store with the old and come out with the new. The same thing could happen with consoles, but will it be just as easy?

fumanstan

Well, we're discussing a history of the model that Microsoft/Sony look like they're going for, rather then full on generational updates. But you also have a good point that console cycle wise it's not crazy to see new hardware in general after a certain number of years.

I've already acknowledged the markets aren't exactly the same, so this doesn't change my point. I'd also argue OS upgrades are lower on the list of reasons people upgrade their phones compared to tech specs and features (in addition to those who just want to always have the newest thing), plus Apple's iOS is compatible multiple years while the major Android manufacturers support updates for at least a year and between the big Android releases. Like I said, it's certainly not an apples to apples comparison so we're seeing a yearly upgrade cycle blown out to 3-4 years with consoles.

And it's not just about phones, it's the tech industry in general that was cited by Sony, like the people that will upgrade a PC or laptop every few years where the OS issue doesn't apply.

The Questyen

But it's not a yearly upgrade. It will be 4 years by the time these come out.

EinCB

I meant moving forward. I know there were a couple of years when between the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360's first models and the slim versions, but this might be the first time they start doing yearly or two yearly upgrades. I'm not fond of the idea.

The Questyen

You are just assuming though. The chance that do even every other year upgrades is highly highly unlikely.

mattysemo247

I'm a little surprised that Sony didn't mention Gran Turismo Sport or anything Destiny at their press conference.

orangecrush

A new flagship phone costs $700+, how is a $4-500 game system more daunting?

RichC2

Phones usually have 2 year payment plans tied with them. $29/month or $200 down + regular bill seems less daunting than $700.

But I agree with what you're saying.

Sgtsnake

they don't do 200.00 down anymore. You are paying for the phone by paying the 29-35 a month. I dont see how spending 400-500 every few years is a big deal. barely 25.00 a month..cheaper than your phone

RichC2

$25 a month is generally easier for people to stomach than $400 - $500 upfront. I personally hate owing money (as I currently owe a lot) so those plans always suck to me, but I get the mentality.

JTH182

I don't think a tick-tock cycle, or in iPhone terms an "S" upgrade type schedule for consoles would be a bad thing. That way, if you wanted, you could still wait 6-8 years between consoles. If you REALLY needed the latest and greatest you could upgrade earlier, but the user base wouldn't be so fractured.

I'm guessing the original console of the generation would do 1080p textures, while the upgrade would handle 4k. Seems like that would be easy to include on a single disc, with a download if needed.

fujishig

It would certainly wean me away from owning multiple consoles at launch. Which considering how similar the two consoles are and how little to play there was, is not a bad thing necessarily. But I love how the justification is, we already pay through the nose for phones every few years, why not do the same for game consoles?

Sonny Corinthos

"We're not creating haves and have-nots"

New consoles will not split the market, Sony says, but in its Project Scorpio VR push can Microsoft also keep that promise?

Shawn Layden has aligned Sony with Microsoft on its approach to the high-powered Neo console, insisting that the introduction of new hardware within a console cycle is not about, "creating have and have-nots."

Sony Interactive Entertainment's chairman told Time.com that he was "in agreement" with Phil Spencer's 'no gamer left behind' rhetoric when Microsoft announced Project Scorpio at E3 this week.

"With this move towards a high-end PS4, it's not to bifurcate the market," Layden said of PlayStation Neo, which Sony announced last week, away from the E3 stage. "We're not creating haves and have-nots. There's only going to be one game on sale, and it will play on both [consoles]. You'll have the same experience, but one will be delivered at a higher resolution, with an enhanced graphical experience, but everything else is going to be exactly as you'd expect."

"There's only going to be one game on sale, and it will play on both [consoles]"

Shawn Layden, PlayStation

According to Layden, though, while both companies are taking a "similar course" in terms of innovating on hardware within a console life-cycle, there are likely to be key differences in the details. "It's nothing that's ever been done before, so there is no road map to how to do that," he continued. "Both companies are trying to find the right way to bring that to developers, to bring it to market, to talk about it."

So far, Microsoft has been more forthcoming in the details of its plan, not least because of some key performance figures it revealed in a video released at E3. Project Scorpio will have an 8 core CPU and a 6 teraflop GPU, with the promise of rendering at 60Hz and, "true 4K gaming." The GPU, in particular, is a key difference between Scorpio and Neo, with Sony's console rumoured to be shipping with a 4.2 teraflop GPU.

"It's a remarkable turnabout," said Digital Foundry in a report published on our sister site, Eurogamer. "A good portion of PlayStation 4's success has been down to its spec advantage over Xbox One, combined with a focus on the hardcore player.

"Sony's technological advantage will be gone with the next wave of hardware - we already know that it cannot support true 4K resolution on cutting-edge games, because we've seen the internal documents that outline Sony's upscaling strategies for 4K display support (more on that soon). It's also unfeasible for Sony to produce a radically revised Neo - the silicon has been designed, developer kits have gone out. Matching Scorpio would require scrapping Neo's existing processor completely."

Compatibility with VR is an important aspect of Microsoft's thinking here, with Scorpio's specs indicating a push towards supporting existing headsets like HTC Vive and Oculus Rift. Microsoft is developing AR hardware in the form of HoloLens, but it has made no announcements regarding a first-party VR device. Indeed, in an interview with Wired, Phil Spencer said, "Right now, we are not focused on a first-party VR hardware device," adding that Microsoft will, "enable many hardware manufacturers to make progress there." This impartial stance is evident in Windows Holographic, a version of the ubiquitous operating system that will support VR and AR devices of all kinds.

Spencer also said that the 6 teraflop GPU was "a requirement" set following conversations with VR developers, and a capability that, "today's consoles-PlayStation 4 and Xbox One-don't have."

"The truth is, a console that can run a 2-D version of Doom or Fallout today, which a PS4 and Xbox One can, is not going to be able to do a stereoscopic, high-framerate version of those games," he says. "We don't want to force VR into a middle ground between the scale that we see in mobile, and what our customers [expect]."

Whether intentional or not, this comment is one in the eye for Sony: PlayStation VR, which is built to work with PlayStation 4, cannot deliver the best possible VR experiences, and Neo, while more powerful, falls short of the standard required by VR developers.

In addition, though, Spencer's comments also reveal a flaw in the notion that Scorpio will not split the Xbox audience. If Xbox One lacks the power to support VR, and Scorpio is being developed with that in mind, the notion that "no one gets left behind" simply won't be true for virtual reality experiences.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...-and-have-nots

RichC2

It's the same things as new iPads, the old ones still work for a long time there after. Neo is primarily for those wanting a premium VR experience, also makes sense.

Music

Holy schnikes! This guy is a genius! /s

Sgtsnake

Hey guys I have a WD 1 TB external hdd that I want to hook up to my PS4. When i plugged it in it says "cannot be used" I then formatted to to fat 32 on my mac and now it doesn't even recognize it when it's plugged in. Anyone know what I need to do to make it work?

Thanks

Dan

I could be wrong, but... I don't think the PS4 works with external drives. Internal replacement only.

edit: apparently you can only use an external to back up the internal drive, but you can't actually install and run games off of it.

slop101

Yeah, you gotta replace the internal drive - no external drive - those only work for transferring data.

Brack

Depends on the carrier, but you're right, the trend is paying monthly installments. Difference is, my trade-in value for my phone, especially if I get a new one before my payments are up (i.e. Jump Plan) is much better from my phone company vs GameStop or EBay (if I'm lucky). If there was a decent trade in value for an Xbox or PS4, I'd feel better about getting a new console. I'll stay positive about all this, and hopefully the cost for the PS4 Neo isn't outrageous. Scorpio will probably start at around $500-600, but if no new console generation hapens for many years afterwards (or ever, if console generations are indeed "dead"), I wouldn't feel like I'm being ripped off.

On the VR note, It's not the core system, and I'm guessing it'll be a niche market for a while. Lots of people don't have the Eye or the Kinect and enjoy their consoles just fine. I was thinking Sony meant more mainstream games, but this is mere speculation on my part.

Sgtsnake

and I will agree making the payments every month is easier than throwing down a quick 400-500 for a new system