I've had a couple of cases where my disc was damaged. I then borrowed a friends disc to install the game to my HD. Gave the disc back to friend. Then used my defective disc for authentication. Luckily my disc wasn't damaged to the point where that part of the disc couldn't be read.

If my kids break my disc, then it is my fault. I have full control over that.

You are kidding yourself if you seriously think that MS is doing any of this to protect people from theft, loss, or damaged discs.

You're kidding yourself if you think Microsoft is doing anything for the benefit of the gamer, period.

Otherwise just allow full fledged apps and stores on the Xbox One like you can on Android, so multiple vendors can sell games digitally. Think that'll happen? The Xbox One will sell like hotcakes, the second Titanfall goes on sale, digital only, for $20.99 the weekend of release.

That's cool, and although I haven't done the same, I know people who have. It's nice to be able to do that. My understanding of installing games to the HD on current systems is that the disc still spins for various portions, but the majority of the game runs off the HD. Is that right?

Totally agree, and maybe my point there isn't clear. It's your responsibility, but it sure is nice if the console doesn't care about that $0.05 piece of plastic, right?

I'm not saying that's the only reason for any of this. Again, it's absolutely pathetic that there's the 24-hour check-in on games, etc. etc. But seriously... theft, loss, or damage is a concern for gamers and families who don't resell any of their games, movies, CDs, etc.

Yet, Sony magically gives a shit about you? Come on.

Never. MS learned a lesson or two with Windows. Android is still learning that lesson. Light moderation of app publishing is a necessity.

I already taught my 4 year old daughter the proper way to handle optical media lol

Then let them buy their games digitally. Microsoft turned the Xbox One into a PC, that's fine, but there is simply a different mentality that goes with console gaming. It's expected on a PC to be a little bit of work, not on a game console.

This could all work in Microsoft's favor if the PS4 becomes a haven for piracy. I know the PS3 has been struggling against it. Oh wait, no it hasn't.

This would work if Microsoft also said that all their digital games would be priced like the digital pc games. NBA 2k14 for $25 on release day? Sign me up!

Once Greenman Gaming starts selling Xbox One codes we'll be set.

I don't plan on getting rid of my 360 for the same reason. But at some point I am going to get an XO so any future RB content should (hopefully) move.

But with this DRM the hopes HMX had of making the library available in future releases may be gone.

Whys that? The library should still be linked to your Xbox account.

I don't think people would be furious about any of those situations in 2018 anymore than they are now, whether it's regarding video games, DVD/Blu-ray, CDs, books, etc. If you go in with the knowledge that you need the physical disc to play the game, you're not going to blame the loss of the physical item on the console maker.

And if you don't want to worry about physical discs and such, buy it digitally instead (again, just like music, video, and books).

Speaking of theft, while physical theft is obviously an issue, so is digital theft. How many people have had their Xbox accounts hijacked over the years? Previously, this was an annoyance in terms of achievements, MSP, and such, but what happens when all of your games are tied to that account? Imagine a hacker transferring all the games out of your account (this is likely why there's the 1 month waiting period for giving games to "friends" on your account). Will your console still even play the games if you can't log in with your account? Will the hackers be able to trade in your virtual items at a game store? Basically, your digital games are not free from theft, and in some ways may be more vulnerable.

Plus, what non-Nintendo console game keeps it value after 5 years? Broken disc? Buy it online for $10.

Oh I know, but gamers aren't exactly known for their unchildish demeanor on internet message boards. They'll bitch about anything if they know people are reading.

Agree. People get to make that choice in all scenarios.

Excellent points. This is obviously a major concern for all parties, I would say. Maybe the new consoles have two-factor authentication? No idea, but that would be a start to battle that kind of theft.

This whole debate is very interesting to me. On one side, I totally get the outrage (and I felt it myself, especially after the news that PS4 was avoiding new DRM techniques). But it's amazing that people are so quick to decide either way, which system they're going to support. Sure, I put in a pre-order for the XO, but I'm not blindly accepting everything MS or Sony is saying. I'm externalizing my internal thoughts about where this whole thing is really headed. Sure, I'm leaning toward XO personally, and I totally get why others are leaning toward PS4. It's just interesting to see how people discuss (or refuse to discuss, in some cases), the "bigger brother picture."

One day...

Marvel Ultimate Alliance Gold!

I'd love that too; but honestly, millions of PC gamers have also played $60 full price for online required games so it's not out of the ordinary. And if anything I would hope there would be more Microsoft store sales to help drive sales.

I don't think the difference between console and PC expectations were that different; it took a couple years for people to fully buy in to Steam too. That service had all sorts of problems and complaints early on too, but eventually people got over it.

Here's the main reason I am hung-up on the internet connectivity thing: I don't trust it.

I had an older 360 with the external wireless adapter for years with zero connection issues. Once I got a Slim - nothing but problems. Changed routers, changed locations, everything. I'm pretty tech-savvy and could not figure out the issue at all. Read forums, tried every suggestion and couldn't get a regular signal. Finally settled on a router that worked well (and stopped using my Xbox wireless headset, which was a big culprit in the problem) and got it worked out but it literally took months and months to solve the issue.

I still had my original to game online with so it wasn't a huge priority, but I had regulated the Slim to single player only due to the issue. I have zero confidence that the Xbox One will work without issue for everyone...and again, if it doesn't connect you are SOL.

No, Sony doesn't care, but they seem to know what consumers want when it matters (right now). I'm saying MS didn't exactly make these changes to make life better for the consumers, they think people will flock to it despite the changes due to the success of the Xbox 360. Nintendo and Sony both have experience with this phenomenon, now it's Microsoft's turn to learn.

Also, the store thing is more in reference to Origin vs. Steam vs. Games for Windows on PC. You get the best price because those are competing, if Microsoft wants so badly to turn this into a standard computer at least level the playing the field, I expect Steam on this bitch.

Steam was the reputed biggest piece of spyware ever when it first came out. Then people got used to it. Then the sales started. And now I love it. Humorous that it was released with Half-life 2, knowing the society in that game. Of course by that point PC DRM was already a pretty tedious thing.

I will buy my games mainly online next gen if the sales come, otherwise I'll wait until they're on sale in stores.

Not on Xbone they don't, which is the issue we're talking about. Game discs functionally no longer have all the benefits of physical copies that people are used to, both with video games and other forms of media. You can't just hand one off to a friend as a gift or loan, you can't sell it to anyone in any venue (ebay, craigslist, non-major retailer), and you can't play it without an internet connection. The only benefit that the game disc on Xbone gives is the ability to install from a disc instead of downloading (good for people with limited bandwidth speeds or caps, but little else).

Xbone functionally makes their physical discs the same as digital downloads, which is what is pissing people off. They don't have the choice of either the physical media model or the digital download model like they have with the 360, PS3, and now PS4.

Something that no-one has really thought of and brought up is....production and consumer demand.

Those who saw the frenzy getting a hold of a 360 the first year has to be thinking...what if another disaster launch happens again with empty shelves and production way behind. To put it in perspective the first year of the 360 saw 1.5 million units sold...a tenth of those on auction site...and many gamers left out in the cold for the holidays. Production started 69 days before release. As of now the 360 has sold 77 million units.

Now industry experts foresee around 400 Million Xbox One units sold during it's span. If that's the case just how many do they think will be sold the first year and how many will be ready to meet demand? And where are these being made? I can remember a way to check the barcode/serial as to determine where it was made and find out what "DVD Player" was in the system. Will we see the same where some BR players have less issues with others?

400 million seems generous, but it depends on how well integrated the non-gaming features are.

This is actually why I think it's wise that both consoles are using AMD / ATI. It's a company with tons of production capability, and not a whole lot going on right now outside of the three consoles. Plus since they're both using essentially the same CPU, a CPU that can be used for other purposes as well, mass production seems like a no brainer.

The only potential bottleneck I see is GDDR5 on the PS4. Otherwise everything is standard issue PC.

Wait - what? 400 million?!?!? That can't be right.

It needs a Cablecard slot and they need to be pursuing Time Warner and Comcast to rent them out for $15 a month.

Is there a actual list of games and release schedule for the Xbox One?

Per this IGN article, they think it could go to a BILLION sold. What the ever loving fuck?