I've been running support.

The M249 is my LMG, and I find it useless at any kind of range...just goes crazy when you pull the trigger. It had some recoil in BC2, but if you put your sights on somebody and lit them up, it generally died. It also became more stable in sustained fire (which is realistic, as I've fired the actual weapon), but in BC3, it just continues to lift. It also has no burst fire, which is realistic, but also gives the support class a big disadvantage at range given the absurd recoil. That is a heavy heavy weapon in real life...not prone to the type of recoil you see in this game.

I was initially having some fun with the M1014, but it's simply useless beyond 15 yards or so...also unrealistic. Buckshot to the face at 20 yards does a ton of damage.

I might try a few SMGs soon...maybe run some engineer. There's probably a reason that a disproportionate number of people are playing engineer in this game. I really only used it to hunt choppers in the last game.

Really frustrated, and was just getting worked last night.

I think a big part of our getting rolled last night was our team. I hear a lot about this whole automatic team balancing thing but even if that uses stats it sure can't account for actual player personalities. Our squad worked together, for sure, but our team sure didn't. I see this every once in a while, where it seems our squad is taking objectives but the rest of the people on the team are doing... I don't know what they're dong but they sure aren't PTFO. Sometimes I'll pull up the Squad/Team menu and see the entire team is spread out with several one- or two-person squads. Meanwhile, you pop into a four-person squad of randoms and they don't work together - no chat, nothing. I see the clan squads on other teams just wiping out the other team, it's nuts. What will it take for the average player to realize they need to work together? Beats me.

Beyond the team winning or losing, I was really having a rough night...following my usual patterns but getting killed constantly. I can still have fun with a .7 k/d ratio, but it was absurd last night. I feel like I'm getting worse at the game.

Engineer has some guns I like...so that's promising. Odd that at the same caliber and lighter with a shorter barrel, the SMGs are more stable than LMGs. I'm using something called a PDW-R.

Fun times tonight with Shum, Spatula, R2 (!!!!) and Dogowar.

My highlight of the night was on Caspian. This dude in a tank rolls into bravo and does a pretty good number on Shum and me. He kills me and while I'm waiting to spawn on bravo, I hear Shum say "That's OK, I got his tags last round, so it's all good". As he says that, I spawn right behind the dude as he repairs his tank, and I reply "....and I'm getting his tags this round"...and Shum gets to watch me stab this aggravating fuck in his kill cam. Funny stuff.

Edit to add...other funny/douchey moment: I joined Shum's game unannounced and spawned on him as he was sneaking up on a dude to knife him. Right as he's going for the money shot, I shotgun the dude in the head and he drops...and I crack up. It takes Shum a few seconds to sort out what happened, but he eventually thought it was funny too.

Later that round, I spotted a sniper for him and watched him follow the dude and get some super tasty tags from him when he went prone in some tall grass. Poor dude had just run 300 yards and had gotten comfortable for some sniping and YOINK!

First half of this video is my new gun. It's an all-class gun unlocked at level 32. It's very stable, swings quickly, and stays accurate at range.

I recommend you guys check it out. I'm going to equip it on every class until I find something better.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6k0Hh1VBFak" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I also feel like I've gotten worse since the release of the new maps. I know I'm still getting familiar with them so I don't expect to be great on them, but even the old maps that I WAS doing well on seem to be more difficult now. I think a lot of it has to do with the mass exodus that happens when an original map pops up.

Example of the average BF3 gameplay lately: Play Strike at Karkand and it's 12 on 12. My team is the team that starts with no objectives. The other team is pretty knowledgeable of the map and mostly spawn at the objective closest to our base. Needless to say we're getting sniped, blown up, run over, etc within seconds of the reound starting. Literally. Took me awhile to figure this out, but if you know how these "all or nothing" maps work, and you spawn at the right objective, you can basically base camp from the get go. Not a huge fan of that design choice, but I guess I'm ok with it because the next time I'll probably be on the other side of it. Anyways, the round ends. We lose. The next map loads... it's something like Grand Bazaar or Operation Metro. We just got run over so you can only imagine what happens. More than half the team quits. Suddenly it's 11 on 4 or something completely lopsided like that and we get run over again. And then it usually takes awhile for the teams to finally balance out. So after losing 5 or 6 in a row, I might get a team that starts winning a few and stays together when an original map shows up again.

Just when I thought I was getting used to the recoil I was starting to finish games with a positive KDR then all of a sudden I went 1-11 and then 0-9. I was all over the place!

I did notice though that the red dot scope seems to help a bit. I hate all the starter guns though dammit.

i had a god time getting my ass handed to me last night with frisby, spatula, and yawmush...one of my biggest problems is that i get frustrated and then switch to COD before ive gotten the hang of it and I was doing much better last night the more i played...I was telling you guys i was signing off and that i had fun for the first time in BF3 and I got DC'd because I for got to install the Karkand maps.

Ill be on tonight.

I'll probably be on too.

I think playing engineer might be the best answer for those frustrated by the recoil. It's by far the strongest class I've played so far. The guns are much more usable in all situations...they are nearly as good as shotguns up close and have much better range than any of the support guns.

Not much upside to assault since health has become almost irrelevant outside of the tunnel maps, which are a drag anyway. Also, reversing the medic controls from BC2 is utter bullshit.

Support is a pretty decent points whore, but all of those LMGs are full of ass and recoil. They have crap range and aren't good for twitchy stuff either. I'm pissed to no end about what they did to the SAW.

I like that the recon class starts out with the mobile spawn point, but I don't think it's any more effective as a full time class than it was in BC2. I love the idea of starting the game as recon and hiding a spawn point near the "out of the way" objective...like Alpha on Kharg. It can really give your team a leg up.

Once you unlock the gun I posted above, I think you can just play whatever class suits you, as it's an all class gun.

This has been happening to me too...just getting worked.

The American engineer starter gun is pretty solid IMO. I just wish there was a way to lock it in no matter which side you were on.

The M249 is the second support gun unlocked, and even being gimped from BC2, it's still the best LMG.

I don't recall liking the early assualt rifles much, and I've never had an interest in sniper rifles.

When you get the service star for each specific class (i.e. when you unlock all engineer specific guns and gadgets), the very last weapon(s) you unlock will be the starter weapons for other class to use. So if you made any progress on the US engineer starter weapon (not sure what it is off the top of my head), it becomes available for the RU side as well once you get the engineer service star. And it retains any scopes or accessories you may have earned.

The only downside with this is once you've made it that far, you've probably seriously upgraded a completely different gun. But I guess it's cool if you really liked one of the starter weapons.

Appreciate the info...that is just stupid.

I'll likely just pimp out the PDW-R and call it good, but if I were just starting, that would really be a crap setup. They brought over one of the few things I DIDN'T like about BC2.

Some good games last night. So my system froze and I had to reboot; that's when Dogowar joined your squad in my stead and when I came back he and I made another squad. That situation made me think about two things:

1. What does it look like to the other players when I freeze? In this case, I was driving at least two of you in a vehicle when I froze. What's the vehicle do? Am I still "in" the driver's seat? Did I get blown up?

2. Is there a way to have two squads of friends communicate so the 5-8 of us can work objectives together? I'm trying to think of ways we can do better as a team when there are more than four of us in a round.

All the talk Chess is offering about weapon choice also makes me wonder, is there a stats chart for all of the weapons so we know what their actual ranges, stopping power, etc. are? Right now, it feels like we're all speculating without knowing for sure which weapons to go use. I think of the BFBC2 weapons stats chart we found and I can't find anything similar beyond something like these two sentences per weapon that basically says a weapon is "reliable" or "powerful" or a "beast."

Honestly, if you're not obsessed with kills, you can get some serious points in all classes just using the gadgets and support items.

Assault: Reviving teammates is 100 points, which is the same as a kill. Plus you get the lost ticket back. 10 points per heal if you drop med kits. Points come fast and furious on maps where people bunch up like Metro. Plus there are many revive opportunities on that map. The M320 has a big blast radius and does serious damage. Very easy to get double kills with well placed shots. I've been the victim of the M320 as much as I have any weapon in the game. I would say Assault actually has a BIG upside.

Engineer: Fixing a vehicle is huge points whore if you're not selfish (quick story, I played a round on Caspian Border with one guy who was perfectly happy being a passenger in a tank with me, all he did was hop out and start repairing anytime he heard the warning buzzer, I finished the round as the MVP with 6000+ points, my passenger had 0 kills and 1 death and was the 2nd MVP with 5800+ points, basically all from repairs and flag capture assists).

Support: Obviously dropping ammo is huge because EVERYBODY needs it. I think the M240B is actually a more powerful LMG than the M249, but the recoil is just as ass-tastic so it really doesn't matter.

Recon: Once you unlock the MAV, it's pretty easy to just sit up in the sky and collect spot bonuses all day long. And if you're really good at controlling it you can actually kill people with it. Some people might feel like it's one less "gun" helping to kill people, but I look at it like this: When I run around on foot, I tend to die more than I kill, so me sitting back spotting might actually be a good thing for the teammates with much better aim than me.

Anyways, I try not to commit to one specific class because every map is different and different classes obviously work better in different situations. My strength is tanks, so on any maps that don't have them, I'm trying to pick a class where I can actually help out in another way. Guns really don't play a factor in my decision on class, because honestly I'm not gonna be that effective with it no matter what it is. I generally choose a class by how it's support items will help the team on that specific map.

I believe you can just select either Squad or Team for the chat options. Although, it might get confusing if different squads are working different areas of the map. Unless you start specifying "Squad A attack this. Squad B defend this." But that would require some excellent communication skills... and would also probably end up in map domination if you could pull it off.

I'm not obsessed with kills, but I don't want to feel helpless either, which has largely been the case thus far. Anybody who's played any appreciable amount of time with me knows that I am ALWAYS PTFO and am all about the team win...sometimes to a fault.

Now that I have an "all-class" go to gun, I'll feel more free to experiment I think.

In BC2, I generally played medic, but on the maps that called for it, I'd roll the engineer quite a bit too.

My statement wasn't directed at you. I just quoted you because you mentioned all the classes. I'd play with you anytime. I think everyone on this forum is pretty much about playing the objectives I was just saying there are ways to help out the team without being a killing machine. The guns don't matter. I get just as frustrated as anyone on here. If there isn't a tank on the map, I pretty much suck. And even sometimes when there IS a tank on the map I pretty much suck. IMO, the K : D ratio is not the best indicator of how effective you are. 97 point kill assists don't show up on the stat sheet. Haven't you played on teams where guys were 18-3 and ranked way below you on the scoreboard because all they did was sit up on a hill somewhere sniping? And you may have been 4-12, but scored higher because you went around and captured all the flags which is the whole fucking point of the game? Which guy is being more helpful to his team?

Just saying. I'm on the east coast so it's usually pretty late when you guys are on, but I'd play with you all anytime. You play the game how it's supposed to be played. It's a TEAM game. Kill stats are just for bragging rights.

Yeah, if I kill somebody, it's generally because I spotted them on the way to an objective...or it's self defense. I just hated the feeling that I couldn't at least have a chance against other folks because they can aim better than I can AND they have better guns. There's nothing worse for me than spotting a dude at what I'd consider a moderate distance, lining him up in my sights and firing, just to watch him turn and headshot me because my shitty gun (that was awesome in the last game) is all over the place.

That said, now that I do have a gun I like...and I do like it quite a bit, the game is opening up for me a bit.

I did feel pretty helpless against helicopter spam today though. I could Carl Gustav a chopper in the last game, but I don't have anything for them now. When do I get a proper stinger?

I think the stinger is unlocked fairly early for the Engineer. Unfortunately they dumbed it down with the last patch. It used to at least disable the chopper on the first hit, but not anymore. It doesn't even work that well on the Little Bird either. Now, the best defense against choppers, unfortunately, is other choppers. Or planes. Or hope there are multiple people shooting at it. Good chopper pilots can definitely wreak havoc on the other team... which I guess has always been the case in these games.

I hit that damn chopper twice with the stinger and just got a hit marker. Not even worth the waste of rockets. I'll just iggy them from now on. FTW!

Surprised you even got hit markers. After around November 15, I couldn't hit a single chopper because they released counter-charges / flares / whatever.

The team chat may be an option to try, though I wish it was like Warhawk where one can mute whoever they please.

I want to start rocking the Javelin on choppers, but unfortunately you need someone to paint it first. The Javelin only works on land vehicles on it's own. I read that if someones paints a chopper with the SOFLAM (recon), the CITV station (3rd seat in the tank), or the Nose Laser Painter (chopper unlock) the Javelin can supposedly lock on to it. That requires some serious teamwork though, because I have NEVER gotten a Laser Designation bonus. Ever. And whenever I have the Javelin equipped, there's never any designated vehicles. They make it look so easy on YouTube

Now that I think of it, what if you had a 4-man squad consisting of:

Recon with the SOFLAM and Spawn beacon
Engineer with the Javelin and AT Mines equipped
Support with Ammo and C4
Assault with Defib and M320

You would, in theory, have no weaknesses against any one single enemy. As long as the Javelin is as effective against choppers as it is against all other vehicles.

Today was the first time I've been overwhelmed by a chopper in this game...not going to change my whole plan based on it. Will just ignore them as I always have.

Gonna see who's on in just a bit.

Gotta finish up some stuff for work tomorrow so I'll probably be on after 10:00pm CST.