re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

I wasn't a fan at first with Steam. I like having a physical copy of my console games but with Steams daily deals and holiday sales, I now own 144 games on Steam.

If MS and Sony can have bargain deals like Steam does it wont be a bad transition. As for downloading sizes, most of the Steam games i've installed have been under 5gb and ones more than 5gb rarely reach 10gb

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

I'm not sure what you're playing, but here are the sizes for some games that I have, which are all popular titles.

Batman: Arkham City - 15.7 GB (including the DLC)
Call of Duty: Black Ops - 8 GB
Deus Ex: Human Revolution - 7 GB
Call of Duty: MW3 - 14 GB
LA Noire - 14 GB
RAGE - 22 GB

The digital copy of Battlefield 3 I have from Amazon is 10 GB.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

Well all i really play is Skyrim and Audiosurf :lol: most of the games i have on steam are old so that might be why.

Holy shit @ Rage being 22 gb!

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

The latest 360 comes with a 320 gb HD. What's the problem? It's 2012 people, get fucking broadband internet. Otherwise continue to play your Wii or PS2 and be content.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

We're discussing what the problems are. Are you not paying attention?

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

Looks like $35.99 will get you a year of Xbox Live on either digital code or card over at Amazon right now. That's the cheapest I've seen it in a while.

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-LIVE-Mont...F8&tag=dvdtalk

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

I have a 500 GB hard drive in my PS3 that would not be able to house half of my disk games had they been purchased digitally. I also frequently get throtled by my ISP about halfway through the month with the retail games I currently buy on PSN. Games are getting really, really big. They are only going to get much bigger if 1080 becomes the standard in lieu of 720.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

*caugh BROADBAND LIMITS caugh*.

And for the record, (screw the Wii), I honestly miss my PS2. The more they try to "simplify" things (translation, line their pockets), the harder it becomes to just put in a damn disc and play.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

Yes, there's zero reason for Microsoft to want to play ball with a publisher demand like this. Microsoft has no issue with used sales. Used sales means more people are playing games on their consoles, using their Live service, etc. etc.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

MS gets a lot of money from publishers for licensing and releasing games on their systems. And obviously, having more games published on their system is good for them and their users. So they're going to at least listen to publisher requests in an effort to make their system as attractive to publishers as possible. Obviously copy protection of any kind is to the benefit of the publishers over the consumers, and every console system has had some form of copy protection for the last few decades.

It's possible that MS could negotiate for increased system exclusives from certain publishers if MS agrees to adding additional publisher control like an activation system. Or a publisher could go completely Xbox exclusive if it has a feature like this and other systems don't. Keep in mind how some movie studios sided with Blu-ray largely based upon the purported advanced security measures it had over HD DVD.

Now, MS may still not implement anything like this, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

Yeah, i think that would hurt the publishers way more than it would hurt MS. People are going to buy the system regardless, and after that it's up to the publishers to sell their games. If they choose to not put it on another system or ban xbox from their releases then they are the ones that are going to lose tons of money and possibly go out of business, MS won't be going out of business from that.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

I just don't see how any kind of "used game lockout" could even be feasible. Ramping up access codes, sure, as we've seen with the single-player only Kingdoms of Amalur.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

Key word here is: OPTIONAL.

It would be great it we have all the options. I don't think MS is going digital only, be it would be great if we could have the option to have something like Steam (load the game, activate at midnight or whatever).

Same with "used game lockout", they may facilitate the option for publishers to use that, if they want.

For me it's like 720p( or 1080p) now, the Xbox allows those formats, but each developer decides what format to use, and the beginning a lot of them weren't even 720p.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

I was thinking about used games...and online passes now starting to be used on single player content...like Rage or the most recent Kingdom of Amalur...

I stick by my feeling that used games help new game sales. In fact, a game that has online play is helped even more by used games in my opinion because it encourages new sales when friends play, and keeps the online pool larger longer...

So I started thinking about what we are hearing from publishers. They want you to believe that used game sales result in fewer new game sales...to counter this they have started to use online passes..

I say that used games help new game sales...and that online passes hurt new sales

I have no data to back this up..and in fact the recent battlefield games have done really well while requiring an online pass...It is difficult to look at Battlefield though because these are games that are well liked, and grew into monsters over the last few games...of course they sell half as much or even less than Modern Warfare games...and Modern does not have any online pass...but it is still difficult to compare...

So I thought about Madden. Madden's online play has been very important the last 6 or 7 years. Madden games were slowing down in sales until online turned them around. When Madden 11 came out it required an online pass to play. EA said that used game sales were killing their numbers, and they had to do something to stop it. They bragged about how well the first week sales were...and then we heard nothing. 2012 continued this trend...

so lets look if the numbers back up EA's claim...if what they say is true...2011...and 2012 should have sold better than the years before...or at least turned around a downward trend...these numbers are from vgchartz..and I know that site is not 100% accurate...but they are the best I got..

All versions of Madden by year in sales..with special notes when needed..

2006 9 million units

2007 10 million units

2008 8 million units (this was the last of the gamecube...and xb versions)

2009 7.5 million

2010 7.7 million

2011 6.3 million (first year of online pass)

2012 4.6 million (note...while not out as long as the other games..all madden games drop off quick..so this is a good number)

a note...when the ps2 and xb versions stopped..the other systems did not make those numbers up right away in 2009..but in 2010 it seemed to be growing again..I think it is possible...like in my home...that some of these games in 2006-7 were bought on more than one system to "update" them..

What does my post prove? Just that I wasted a bunch of time...but I also think it at least shows that there MIGHT be some truth to what I say...

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

It's an interesting point, but think about this. For passes specifically for online content:

1) Publishers previously had to support used and rented games for free. So the loss in upfront sales may have been offset by the money saved by not having to support all those used game players; at least, not for free.
2) There's no info on the number of online passes they sold to used game owners, renters, or other people who for some reason couldn't use the free code included in a new copy.

So you can't just look at new game sales and conclude that Publishers are losing money with these methods, even if you could conclusively prove that the drop in sales was a result of online codes and not other factors, like say the recession.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

I'm not sure if you know anything about the Madden games or watch football, but I'd say the big drop off is more indicative of other reasons, such as a general decline in Madden sales in general over the last 5 years, the NFL lockout which delayed the game a bit and probably the interest in picking it up, and finally, declining reviews and overall poorer game quality in general.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

right...but from my numbers...it looks like the drop in sales increased once they started the online pass...sales were not dropping the 3 years before the first pass...but the games since..especially 2012...ouch..

and I don't think EA will ever give true hard evidence of online pass sales...but I know that selling 4 million copies of a game vs 7 million...no way they make that up...

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

also...I noticed week one sales of Madden 12 and 11 were up over previous years...so week one buzz over these games is as strong as ever if not stronger...my theory would show up in longer term sales..and that seems to be the case with the last two Maddens..

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

Given that sales were dropping since 2007 by the millions, it seems more like the .2 million difference is the aberration. I'd also question those estimates by VGChartz, because searching for articles about Madden 10 sales returns quite a few reports of sales being down from the previous year, direct from EA's financial reports.

I'd extrapolate that more to hardcore Madden fan interest is as strong as ever, but casual interest has continued to decline (which can also coincide with less interest in the Wii, DS, and PSP lately).

I just have a hard time believing that the audience who plays Madden football games would care about the online pass, let alone to the tune of 1+ million in sales. That's a hard link to justify on this type of game.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

actually your point about vgchartz is well taken...I am also obviously doing my best politician here and making stats fit my argument...but in looking at another EA online pass game...NCAA Football..

2008 1.91 million

2009 2.1 million

2010 2.48 million

2011 (first year of online pass) 2.04 million

2012 1.6 million

My theory being the longer you hurt the online portion of a game, the less buzz that game keeps long term and in future releases...

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

What about FIFA? That series has shown growth despite the online pass.

I can see some sort of correlation, I just don't think its the primary force between declining sales. Yet.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

yeah Fifa is the one game that has done better...actually FIFA and Battlefield are the only two games that have done better with an online pass than the games in the series before...I just don't understand how FIFA works though since it is an international game with less than 20% of the sales coming from America...and Battlefield has been on a strong growth pattern..

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

FIFA has hackers to help.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

I think it's the stagnation in gameplay that's hurt Madden for more than the Online Pass. Most folks I know would rather pick up the new Call of Duty game every year since it'll be a different game rather than getting Madden which will be a new roster and maybe some improved animations.

What I really feel sorry for is the consumers who don't know anything about Online Passes. Those poor grandparents who stroll into Gamestop without a clue, buy the used copy of Madden 2012 that the CS vulture steered them to along with the guide they're told is essential, completely unaware that their copy of the game will be semi-useless to their grandson who wanted it. We here know better, but the typical consumer sure doesn't.

re: The official Xbox 360 thread - the console of choice on nuclear submarines
 

Doesn't Gamestop steer these people to the online pass purchase as well? Gamestop sells the online passes, and they said when online passes launched that they looked forward to it.
http://www.qj.net/qjnet/news/gamesto...line-pass.html
http://store.gameinformer.com/xbox-3...pass-dlc/98409

So what the stores are probably doing is steering grandparents to the cheaper used copy, the guidebook, and a separate online pass purchase, and Gamestop likely makes more money that way than selling a new game.