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Old 08-24-09 | 09:49 AM
  #176  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by pinata242
Does the mere fact that it brings the gameplay style back to prominence in a way that doesn't start with "the new GBA Metroid game" not move the genre forward in some way?
Yeah..that was my main arguement. First off, the genre is advanced if anything because there's a lot of people playing the game that never played the Metroid/Castlevania predecessors, and it's introducing this entire type of gameplay. Secondly, it's proving that this kind of gameplay can be updated and made affordable to everyone and be amazing. Thirdly, if you can't see the graphical/gameplay updates this brings to the genre then you're goddamn retarded.
Old 08-24-09 | 09:58 AM
  #177  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

They kinda, in a round about way,touched on this a bit on the new ListenUp when talking about the new Castlevania game. It went like this: like it or not the Castlevania is not a mainstream game and hasn't been in a decade. It's "that little game series on the DS." They're loved, but not mainstream at all and really don't get a lot of buzz.

Shadow Complex has achieved what Castlevania hasn't been able to do in years, by bringing that style/genre(?) to consoles (& new gamers) and invigorating the discussion about these types of games. It shows that people are still interested in this style of gameplay.

Ironically enough, the newest Castlevania is abandoning the Metroidvania style and going back to its 1-4 roots.
Old 08-24-09 | 10:06 AM
  #178  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Huge speed run shortcut revealed, which will allow you to get the Foam Gun about 15 minutes into the game (if you're at Level 30 and have unlocked the golden weapons room):

Old 08-24-09 | 12:36 PM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by superfro
I talked to someone I know who is a huge Castlevania SOTN (and the like) fan and he proceeded to tell me there is nothing original about this game and it doesn't move the genre forward in any way, shape, or form. WTF?! I hate everybody I know.
Ok this guy is an idiot. Not knowing this guy I can't say I'm a 100% sure of this but I am fairly sure I am a bigger fan of the genre then this guy. I mean I am such a nerd I have bought the import version of SOTN and beaten it , twice! This game does add to the genre maybe not as much as some people think it does but it advances a great deal . Also it proves that done right this style can still be a big event.
Old 08-24-09 | 12:44 PM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

That shortcut is awesome. Right now I am working 100% though.
Old 08-24-09 | 03:20 PM
  #181  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

So I took a break today from work to give that minimalist run through a shot. So easy. Completion time was 1:45 and I went from level 20 to 26.
Old 08-24-09 | 06:03 PM
  #182  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Every single time I find a new item in this game I keep expecting to hear a variation of this...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IyFeGs5xeV0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IyFeGs5xeV0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Old 08-24-09 | 06:28 PM
  #183  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by pinata242
So I took a break today from work to give that minimalist run through a shot. So easy. Completion time was 1:45 and I went from level 20 to 26.
1:45 to finish the whole game?
Old 08-24-09 | 06:54 PM
  #184  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by Raul3
1:45 to finish the whole game?
Yeah, going just from point to point with little exploration and no unnecessary item collection.

I also started a new Insane run, but that wasn't as much fun because it doesn't mark on the map where the secret items are. That wouldn't be a huge deal if it at least listed where you got stuff but, no, not even that. You're completely blind as far as items are located.

That and the enemies tear right through you made it less fun. Hardcore is the proper mode

Last edited by pinata242; 08-24-09 at 06:56 PM.
Old 08-25-09 | 01:31 AM
  #185  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by Spicollidriver1
Yeah I got that also very cool. Also in addition to the achievement tracking there is leaderboard popups which is awesome. Also no spoilers but there is a point at about 30% of the map where you get scuba gear and the music changes there is only one word I could describe it it's a word I never used before that I can remember for a game. Beautiful, you'll know it when you get there.
Got there tonight (didn't get to play over the weekend). It's amazing. These are the guys who made Undertow and it shows -- they know underwater.
Old 08-25-09 | 08:02 AM
  #186  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

I think I (finally) get to play tonight.
Old 08-25-09 | 11:42 AM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

So I'm at the part where

Spoiler:
You have to get four parts for your equipment, YMMV I guess since some people may have found some before. I got two and now my blue line is sending me somewhere else... am I almost done with the game? Is that almost the end?
Old 08-25-09 | 11:48 AM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by Raul3
So I'm at the part where

Spoiler:
You have to get four parts for your equipment, YMMV I guess since some people may have found some before. I got two and now my blue line is sending me somewhere else... am I almost done with the game? Is that almost the end?
Spoiler:
Technically you are at the point in the game that you can progress the story to the end at any time. (Probably an additional 15 minutes or so.) So if you want to go through and get more items, don't follow the blue line until you have everything you want.
Old 08-25-09 | 11:50 AM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

If you want to progress the story, you go to the blue exclamation point. Otherwise, do whatever you want.

Tip for avoiding the final battle:

Spoiler:
Stay away from the East lake - the one with the shack on an island in the middle, where the helicopter shot at you early in the game.
Old 08-25-09 | 11:57 AM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Thanks!

Yeah, I'm at 80% items and I'm trying to reach 100%.
Old 08-25-09 | 12:17 PM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

I've entered this weird feeling with the game where I think I may actually be having more fun on my subsequent run throughs then I did on my first? My first go round I did the 100% completion and took my time being all stealthy for a final end time of 10.5 hours or so. Now I feel like I'm flying and the rapid pace is almost more fun. I know my way around, my guy is leveled up, I don't have to stress over finding every little thing. It's odd. I guess I just didn't expect to have fun in a different way after already playing the game for 11 hours.

$15 huh? Amazing.
Old 08-25-09 | 12:22 PM
  #192  
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

When I hit level 30, I smiled thinking about what levels 40 and 50 would unlock.

I remember on my first playthrough when
Spoiler:
I got 100% missles and that turned into infinite missles how great it was just just run around hammering RB and hearing all the screams
Old 08-25-09 | 03:29 PM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by foxdvd
LOL...the story is so thin you would not even know he wrote it....

The game rules...you are missing out!

Looks like my gf is going to buy it anyway

I agree...it does look awesome. And as much as I dislike Orson Scott Card, I do like Peter David.
Old 08-25-09 | 04:10 PM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by porieux
Looks like my gf is going to buy it anyway

I agree...it does look awesome. And as much as I dislike Orson Scott Card, I do like Peter David.

Speaking of Card, Destructoid had an interesting article on Shadow Complex:

Should we boycott Shadow Complex?


spoilerized for length

Spoiler:
For a game that has received almost nothing but unanimous critical acclaim and has been hotly anticipated by gamers ever since it was announced at E3, that seems to be quite a bizarre, almost ridiculous question. If you are unaware of the recent controversy surrounding Shadow Complex, you could be forgiven for thinking that the boycotters were enraged PS3 fans, lashing out at an exclusive Xbox 360 game.

However, Shadow Complex is currently at the center of a touchy and thorny political issue, as it has become apparent that the game is based upon a world co-created by Orson Scott Card, a notorious writer who viciously campaigns against same-sex marriage and believes homosexuality to be a sexual dysfunction.

Card will be making money from Chair Entertainment's recently released Xbox Live Arcade game. Hence the question, should we boycott Shadow Complex?

The answer is not simple. In fact, the question itself is not simple, made up as it is of many more questions that are undoubtedly brought to the surface when trying to unravel the debate.

Orson Scott Card is an American author, critic and public speaker. A number of his writings are political in nature and address the issue of gay marriage, which he believes is a "potentially devastating social experiment." It is Card's view that same-sex marriage would mark the end of democracy, and to that end, he has made a habit of opposing what he calls the "homosexual activist agenda."

Card denies he is a homophobe: "This is a term that was invented to describe people with a pathological fear of homosexuals -- the kind of people who engage in acts of violence against gays. But the term was immediately extended to apply to anyone who opposed the homosexual activist agenda in any way."

For a man who claims not to have a phobia of homosexuals, he seems quite scared of letting gay people marry. For example, he believes that gay marriage would "spell the end of democracy." He also seems to not have much respect for homosexuals, suggesting that they are "tragic genetic mix ups." Whether he truly hates homosexuals or not, it's obvious he doesn't like them very much, and is threatened by the idea of them having the same rights he enjoys as a heterosexual.

Shadow Complex, developed by Chair and Epic Games, has a universe created in conjunction with Card. The game acts as a prequel to Empire, a game currently being worked on by Chair. The studio contacted Card and offered him the chance to help embellish the game's universe, as well as write a novel based on the universe, also called Empire. It's a unique case of a novelist co-creating a world with a game developer, and has led to some confusion as to what is based on what.

The game itself is written by Peter David. When Gay Gamer wrote about the controversy, it was pointed out that Peter David was a "gay-friendly" comic book writer, who has always included gay characters in his work without persecution and has been responsible for some high-profile gay Marvel superheroes. David has also stated that he completely disagrees with Card's politics, and not just when it comes to homosexuality.

In addition, Chair toned down the political elements of Card's contribution to the Empire universe, providing more of an action flick-style game than a deep and twisting political thriller. Shadow Complex itself does not espouse a view on gay marriage, one way or another. However, despite the fact that Peter David wrote the game, that Chair itself doesn't hold a public political viewpoint and that Shadow Complex isn't for or against same-sex marriage, a number of gamers, especially those on that hotbed of intelligentsia NeoGAF, are chewing on a gristly bone of contention.

The fact is, Card made money from Shadow Complex. He may still be making money from it. He might make a buck for every download Chair has. For some people, purchasing Shadow Complex is akin to putting money into the pocket of a homophobic bigot. However, before we ask the question, "Should we boycott Shadow Complex?", we have to ask ourselves this, "Should we boycott anything involving someone whose political opinions we disagree with?"

If your answer to that question is yes, then you need to seriously rethink how you participate in the world. It's highly likely that everything you enjoy, from the TV shows you watch to the food that you eat, is benefiting somebody who holds views you disagree with -- views potentially more extreme than Card's. In all probability, you've given your money to far worse people than Card, who is, to be honest, little more than a small and frightened man with a big mouth and an illogical desire for normalcy based upon his Mormon ideals.

Gamasutra points out one such bigot who outranks Card. I'm sure many of you reading this have played a Dragon Quest game before. The music for Dragon Quest was composed by Koichi Sugiyama, who has worked on all nine main entries in the series. Sugiyama also happens to be a member of the far right and denies that the rape of Nanking ever happened. As much as Card's opinions dismay me, that little bigot couldn't hold a candle to Sugiyama, whose views are absolutely abhorrent and disgusting. However, should we not buy a Dragon Quest game because one of the team members is a man with a horrendous opinion?

At the end of the day, that's all these men have: Opinions. Everybody has opinions, perhaps views that even Card or Sugiyama find tasteless and distressing. Does this mean they have no right to a job? That they don't deserve to earn money? I don't think that's the case. Both men deserve the opportunity to make a living and earn their way in the world, however backward their thinking may be.

Can we successfully separate art and their creator? Some people can, quite easily. For instance, Gary Glitter is one of the United Kingdom's most famous pedophiles. He was a musician who had found fame in the seventies and was enjoying a huge cult following in the nineties when it was discovered that he was downloading child pornography to his computer. He has since become one of the most vilified, hated men in the country, spending the rest of his life hiding from vigilantes and the British press.

Y'know, there are still people that love a good Glitter tune.

Are these people wrong to still enjoy his music, while condemning the man himself? I don't think so. Glitter was a talented performer and showman, despite what he did, and while Gary Glitter -- or rather, Paul Gadd -- is a despicable creature, his music was good for what it was, and I don't blame anybody for still enjoying the art he created, provided they're not applauding him as a person. Once again, Glitter is a far worse human being than the relatively harmless Orson Scott Card.

Shadow Complex is a great little game. Better than the music of Gary Glitter, for sure. It's a great game that Card was only vaguely involved with and yes, it's true, he has likely made money from it. But he's not an evil man. He's a stupid man, in my opinion, but he's not the most reprehensible character in the world. My answer to the burning question, as you may have gathered, is no. No, we should not boycott Shadow Complex. But that's with emphasis on the we.

We as an organized unit should not boycott Shadow Complex. Getting up in arms and vilifying the game would put us on the same bigoted level as Card, really. He's entitled to his opinion, and Chair was entitled to collaborate with him and use his talent as a writer. But that's not to say you shouldn't refuse to buy the game if you feel strongly about it. I don't blame anybody for having reservations about buying this game if it indirectly benefits a man like Card. I was lucky enough to have a code for Shadow Complex, but I can't deny that if I was faced with the prospect of buying it, I wouldn't stop and think about Orson Scott Card at least briefly before making a purchasing decision.

Shadow Complex is an ambitious, impressive XBLA game that was developed by a team of good people who would benefit from your money far more than Orson Scott Card ever would. If you want to boycott it, that is indeed your choice, but the true question for me is this:

Would doing yourself out of a great game just to score an insignificant blow to an insignificant bigot really be worth it?


http://www.destructoid.com/should-we...--145354.phtml

The reception for the boycott has been mainly negative. Majority thinks its stupid. It's funny to me how a boycott for something stupid (Left 4 dead 2) is considered important yet when a valid boycott (shadow complex) is brought up majority think it's stupid???
Old 08-25-09 | 05:21 PM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

I like how destructoid presents all sides of the argument - something even most major news organizations typically fail to do.
Old 08-25-09 | 05:22 PM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by mhg83
Speaking of Card, Destructoid had an interesting article on Shadow Complex:

Should we boycott Shadow Complex?


spoilerized for length

Spoiler:
For a game that has received almost nothing but unanimous critical acclaim and has been hotly anticipated by gamers ever since it was announced at E3, that seems to be quite a bizarre, almost ridiculous question. If you are unaware of the recent controversy surrounding Shadow Complex, you could be forgiven for thinking that the boycotters were enraged PS3 fans, lashing out at an exclusive Xbox 360 game.

However, Shadow Complex is currently at the center of a touchy and thorny political issue, as it has become apparent that the game is based upon a world co-created by Orson Scott Card, a notorious writer who viciously campaigns against same-sex marriage and believes homosexuality to be a sexual dysfunction.

Card will be making money from Chair Entertainment's recently released Xbox Live Arcade game. Hence the question, should we boycott Shadow Complex?

The answer is not simple. In fact, the question itself is not simple, made up as it is of many more questions that are undoubtedly brought to the surface when trying to unravel the debate.

Orson Scott Card is an American author, critic and public speaker. A number of his writings are political in nature and address the issue of gay marriage, which he believes is a "potentially devastating social experiment." It is Card's view that same-sex marriage would mark the end of democracy, and to that end, he has made a habit of opposing what he calls the "homosexual activist agenda."

Card denies he is a homophobe: "This is a term that was invented to describe people with a pathological fear of homosexuals -- the kind of people who engage in acts of violence against gays. But the term was immediately extended to apply to anyone who opposed the homosexual activist agenda in any way."

For a man who claims not to have a phobia of homosexuals, he seems quite scared of letting gay people marry. For example, he believes that gay marriage would "spell the end of democracy." He also seems to not have much respect for homosexuals, suggesting that they are "tragic genetic mix ups." Whether he truly hates homosexuals or not, it's obvious he doesn't like them very much, and is threatened by the idea of them having the same rights he enjoys as a heterosexual.

Shadow Complex, developed by Chair and Epic Games, has a universe created in conjunction with Card. The game acts as a prequel to Empire, a game currently being worked on by Chair. The studio contacted Card and offered him the chance to help embellish the game's universe, as well as write a novel based on the universe, also called Empire. It's a unique case of a novelist co-creating a world with a game developer, and has led to some confusion as to what is based on what.

The game itself is written by Peter David. When Gay Gamer wrote about the controversy, it was pointed out that Peter David was a "gay-friendly" comic book writer, who has always included gay characters in his work without persecution and has been responsible for some high-profile gay Marvel superheroes. David has also stated that he completely disagrees with Card's politics, and not just when it comes to homosexuality.

In addition, Chair toned down the political elements of Card's contribution to the Empire universe, providing more of an action flick-style game than a deep and twisting political thriller. Shadow Complex itself does not espouse a view on gay marriage, one way or another. However, despite the fact that Peter David wrote the game, that Chair itself doesn't hold a public political viewpoint and that Shadow Complex isn't for or against same-sex marriage, a number of gamers, especially those on that hotbed of intelligentsia NeoGAF, are chewing on a gristly bone of contention.

The fact is, Card made money from Shadow Complex. He may still be making money from it. He might make a buck for every download Chair has. For some people, purchasing Shadow Complex is akin to putting money into the pocket of a homophobic bigot. However, before we ask the question, "Should we boycott Shadow Complex?", we have to ask ourselves this, "Should we boycott anything involving someone whose political opinions we disagree with?"

If your answer to that question is yes, then you need to seriously rethink how you participate in the world. It's highly likely that everything you enjoy, from the TV shows you watch to the food that you eat, is benefiting somebody who holds views you disagree with -- views potentially more extreme than Card's. In all probability, you've given your money to far worse people than Card, who is, to be honest, little more than a small and frightened man with a big mouth and an illogical desire for normalcy based upon his Mormon ideals.

Gamasutra points out one such bigot who outranks Card. I'm sure many of you reading this have played a Dragon Quest game before. The music for Dragon Quest was composed by Koichi Sugiyama, who has worked on all nine main entries in the series. Sugiyama also happens to be a member of the far right and denies that the rape of Nanking ever happened. As much as Card's opinions dismay me, that little bigot couldn't hold a candle to Sugiyama, whose views are absolutely abhorrent and disgusting. However, should we not buy a Dragon Quest game because one of the team members is a man with a horrendous opinion?

At the end of the day, that's all these men have: Opinions. Everybody has opinions, perhaps views that even Card or Sugiyama find tasteless and distressing. Does this mean they have no right to a job? That they don't deserve to earn money? I don't think that's the case. Both men deserve the opportunity to make a living and earn their way in the world, however backward their thinking may be.

Can we successfully separate art and their creator? Some people can, quite easily. For instance, Gary Glitter is one of the United Kingdom's most famous pedophiles. He was a musician who had found fame in the seventies and was enjoying a huge cult following in the nineties when it was discovered that he was downloading child pornography to his computer. He has since become one of the most vilified, hated men in the country, spending the rest of his life hiding from vigilantes and the British press.

Y'know, there are still people that love a good Glitter tune.

Are these people wrong to still enjoy his music, while condemning the man himself? I don't think so. Glitter was a talented performer and showman, despite what he did, and while Gary Glitter -- or rather, Paul Gadd -- is a despicable creature, his music was good for what it was, and I don't blame anybody for still enjoying the art he created, provided they're not applauding him as a person. Once again, Glitter is a far worse human being than the relatively harmless Orson Scott Card.

Shadow Complex is a great little game. Better than the music of Gary Glitter, for sure. It's a great game that Card was only vaguely involved with and yes, it's true, he has likely made money from it. But he's not an evil man. He's a stupid man, in my opinion, but he's not the most reprehensible character in the world. My answer to the burning question, as you may have gathered, is no. No, we should not boycott Shadow Complex. But that's with emphasis on the we.

We as an organized unit should not boycott Shadow Complex. Getting up in arms and vilifying the game would put us on the same bigoted level as Card, really. He's entitled to his opinion, and Chair was entitled to collaborate with him and use his talent as a writer. But that's not to say you shouldn't refuse to buy the game if you feel strongly about it. I don't blame anybody for having reservations about buying this game if it indirectly benefits a man like Card. I was lucky enough to have a code for Shadow Complex, but I can't deny that if I was faced with the prospect of buying it, I wouldn't stop and think about Orson Scott Card at least briefly before making a purchasing decision.

Shadow Complex is an ambitious, impressive XBLA game that was developed by a team of good people who would benefit from your money far more than Orson Scott Card ever would. If you want to boycott it, that is indeed your choice, but the true question for me is this:

Would doing yourself out of a great game just to score an insignificant blow to an insignificant bigot really be worth it?


http://www.destructoid.com/should-we...--145354.phtml

The reception for the boycott has been mainly negative. Majority thinks its stupid. It's funny to me how a boycott for something stupid (Left 4 dead 2) is considered important yet when a valid boycott (shadow complex) is brought up majority think it's stupid???
Solid point but it is the world we live in so I don't get bothered by it much anymore. To be honest I thought this might be a game I boycotted only because sometimes when something gets that big I start to really hate them (that's right I am talking to you music games) and I thought Shadow Complex was gonna be one of those but it is too damn awesome .
Old 08-25-09 | 06:51 PM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"



Unless his beliefs are pushed in the game I don't give two shits about what he believes. Even then, if it is done respectfully in a way that has to do with a character or development said character in some fashion then it's fine by me.

I don't see why people get so up in arms about what 'celebs' believe. As long as they aren't knocking on my door and ramming it down my throat, they are free to believe what they want. It may not jive mine and/or popular(?) opinion, but that's his right as a citizen of this country.
Old 08-25-09 | 07:29 PM
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Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by slop101
I like how destructoid presents all sides of the argument - something even most major news organizations typically fail to do.
That was a very thoughtful article that fairly presented both pro- and con- boycott sides (at least, from the perspective that Card's views are abhorent. The views on a boycott from those who agree with Card should be self-evident, I would think).

I will say that while I was aware of Card's views before and bought the game knowing he was involved, this article has inspired me to make a $15 donation to a pro-gay-rights group. Take that, Card!
Old 08-25-09 | 08:09 PM
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From: Owasso, OK
Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin


Unless his beliefs are pushed in the game I don't give two shits about what he believes. Even then, if it is done respectfully in a way that has to do with a character or development said character in some fashion then it's fine by me.

I don't see why people get so up in arms about what 'celebs' believe. As long as they aren't knocking on my door and ramming it down my throat, they are free to believe what they want. It may not jive mine and/or popular(?) opinion, but that's his right as a citizen of this country.
Says the man with Battlefield Earth in his DVD collection.
Old 08-25-09 | 08:44 PM
  #200  
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From: Louisville, KY
Re: The Official Shadow Complex Thread of "Until Metroid Dread is Released"

You must have me confused with someone else.


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