Official Little Big Planet (PS3) Thread!
11-11-08, 09:01 AM
#754
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Thanks for the info - I actually figured it out before I saw this. I created a rail with a slight tip at one end out of dark matter, attached a winch to the tip, created a sponge two layers deep attached to the winch, bolted a small flat disc to it, then attached a box to the disc with elastic. Sounds like a lot of work, but it does the trick - I'll probably hide the mechanism itself behind a thin wall. Another plan I came up with was to build an amusement park, and I wanted a gondola ride. I've already got a Ferris wheel and a rollercoaster in the works.
11-11-08, 10:49 AM
#755
DVD Talk Hero
And even if it was Mario-based stuff, it's just homage and FREE advertising, it's nothing even approaching any sort of copyright infringement.
Furthermore, because it's so easy to flag a level (just press [select]!), people are just flagging any level that might give them some problems.
This can't help the lower than expected sales the title's had either.
LittleBigPlanet is probably the strongest first party game in Sony’s stable, receiving constant mid-to-high 90’s review scores. Its strongest praise is for the user created content, despite Sony’s draconian, heavyhanded deletion policy. It looks great, and can be enjoyed by young and old - including at the same time with its co-op mode. It should be a system seller. Sackboy should be Sony’s flagship mascot, and Sony at this point lacks one - the only character who seems to represent the console is a crying baby.
But it’s not. After the third week of release, the title has tepidly sold around 500K, being trounced by such competition as Fable II, Guitar Hero: World Tour, Fallout 3 and now Gears of War 2 and Resistance 2.
Why? There are a few factors:
1. Genre: LittleBigPlanet conflicts with the PlayStation 3 demographic. Sony openly caters to the “hardcore demographic” - the sort of gamer who plays Grand Theft Auto IV and SOCOM. There are very few games of LBP’s oeuvre in the PS3 stable. There are very few casual-style games for the system - there’s far more Uncharted Drake’s Fortune than Pain available. This is a problem Microsoft is struggling with for the Xbox 360, and are trying to solve with such games as Scene It!, So You Want to Be in the Movies and Lips, and the jury is still out on them, as there have been as many successes as bombs. You sell systems with representative software - Halo 3 and Gears of War sold Xbox 360’s. Metal Gear Solid 4 sold PlayStation 3’s. Super Mario Galaxy and Wii Sports sold the Wii. Ratchet & Clank’s PS3 debut? Almost no sales.
2. Marketing: Had Nintendo commissioned Media Molecule to create the game, they’d have replaced SackBoy with Mario, called it BigMarioWorld and sold a ton. Why? They would have advertised the holy stuffing out of the game. When’s the last time you saw a television ad for LittleBigPlanet? Billboard? You might notice that Sony’s been promoting the living bejeezus out of Resistance 2, with TV spots, print ads, and so forth, possibly to combat Gears of War 2. This was a mistake, since there’s no game quite like LittleBigPlanet - Spore received the ad campaign blitz, and despite being a mediocre - if innovative - product, and sold over a million in a week. Why the shortchanging of advertising dollars, Sony?
3. Console price: Another barrier towards LittleBigPlanet is the system’s price. Site owner Derrick Schommer pines for LBP, but refuses to shell out $500 (or even $400 in select store deals) just to play the game. It’s hard to sell a system with a casual platformer title, especially to Moms who don’t look at the software library of a console when shopping for a Christmas present for young Billy - just the price tag. As mentioned before, if you want to sell a casual game, sell a casual-priced system.
4. Release problems: The sputtering start and stop of the release date was deadly for LBP, halting any sort of momentum for the game. Sony should have just kept the game on shelves and issued a mandatory patch after a week of release. I mean, outside of the Arab world, how many people actually understand Arabic? Sony could have just issued a sincere apology and removed the offensive content - but not removed the game from shelves. Better yet, they should have scoured the game before release - even Microsoft delayed Halo 3 for a whole year before releasing. They knew that Halo 3 would hit like an atomic bomb - couldn’t Sony and Media Molecule have done a once over before release?
5. Bad press?: A fifth, unknown factor is the current negative press over Sony’s current deletion policy, removing even passing references to licensed material - ie. apparently, naming your level “Failure to Launch” is a no-no, even though it has nothing to do with the bad Matthew McConaughey movie. Angering its core base of devoted users seems self-destructive. Removing levels because they’re clones of Super Mario Bros. is understandable, but the removal has been arbitrary and confounding. Calling a level “Maid in Manhattan” should boost Sony’s sales of its terrible Jennifer Lopez film. Sony should have plastered the level with posters for the film and a link to buy it from Amazon.com, not wiped it from existence. Bad word of mouth from people who actually bought the game is not what Sony needs now.
But it’s not. After the third week of release, the title has tepidly sold around 500K, being trounced by such competition as Fable II, Guitar Hero: World Tour, Fallout 3 and now Gears of War 2 and Resistance 2.
Why? There are a few factors:
1. Genre: LittleBigPlanet conflicts with the PlayStation 3 demographic. Sony openly caters to the “hardcore demographic” - the sort of gamer who plays Grand Theft Auto IV and SOCOM. There are very few games of LBP’s oeuvre in the PS3 stable. There are very few casual-style games for the system - there’s far more Uncharted Drake’s Fortune than Pain available. This is a problem Microsoft is struggling with for the Xbox 360, and are trying to solve with such games as Scene It!, So You Want to Be in the Movies and Lips, and the jury is still out on them, as there have been as many successes as bombs. You sell systems with representative software - Halo 3 and Gears of War sold Xbox 360’s. Metal Gear Solid 4 sold PlayStation 3’s. Super Mario Galaxy and Wii Sports sold the Wii. Ratchet & Clank’s PS3 debut? Almost no sales.
2. Marketing: Had Nintendo commissioned Media Molecule to create the game, they’d have replaced SackBoy with Mario, called it BigMarioWorld and sold a ton. Why? They would have advertised the holy stuffing out of the game. When’s the last time you saw a television ad for LittleBigPlanet? Billboard? You might notice that Sony’s been promoting the living bejeezus out of Resistance 2, with TV spots, print ads, and so forth, possibly to combat Gears of War 2. This was a mistake, since there’s no game quite like LittleBigPlanet - Spore received the ad campaign blitz, and despite being a mediocre - if innovative - product, and sold over a million in a week. Why the shortchanging of advertising dollars, Sony?
3. Console price: Another barrier towards LittleBigPlanet is the system’s price. Site owner Derrick Schommer pines for LBP, but refuses to shell out $500 (or even $400 in select store deals) just to play the game. It’s hard to sell a system with a casual platformer title, especially to Moms who don’t look at the software library of a console when shopping for a Christmas present for young Billy - just the price tag. As mentioned before, if you want to sell a casual game, sell a casual-priced system.
4. Release problems: The sputtering start and stop of the release date was deadly for LBP, halting any sort of momentum for the game. Sony should have just kept the game on shelves and issued a mandatory patch after a week of release. I mean, outside of the Arab world, how many people actually understand Arabic? Sony could have just issued a sincere apology and removed the offensive content - but not removed the game from shelves. Better yet, they should have scoured the game before release - even Microsoft delayed Halo 3 for a whole year before releasing. They knew that Halo 3 would hit like an atomic bomb - couldn’t Sony and Media Molecule have done a once over before release?
5. Bad press?: A fifth, unknown factor is the current negative press over Sony’s current deletion policy, removing even passing references to licensed material - ie. apparently, naming your level “Failure to Launch” is a no-no, even though it has nothing to do with the bad Matthew McConaughey movie. Angering its core base of devoted users seems self-destructive. Removing levels because they’re clones of Super Mario Bros. is understandable, but the removal has been arbitrary and confounding. Calling a level “Maid in Manhattan” should boost Sony’s sales of its terrible Jennifer Lopez film. Sony should have plastered the level with posters for the film and a link to buy it from Amazon.com, not wiped it from existence. Bad word of mouth from people who actually bought the game is not what Sony needs now.
11-12-08, 08:31 AM
#757
DVD Talk Special Edition
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Just picked up a PS3 and Little Big Planet. Only had to play for a couple of hours last night, but this is a fantastic game. The regular levels are fine, but the possibilities are staggering. I spent a lot of time playing some user-created levels online; some were useless, some were just for the sake of getting trophies, but there were plenty that I thought were a lot of fun (there's an escape from Alcatraz level that I thought was pretty cool).
A few questions: Is there any way to get photos into the game (besides those taken with an Eyecam or whatever it's called)?
I've read that Sony is yanking copyrighted levels from the online portion; however, can you make one (let's say, a recreation of a Mario level) and keep it for your own personal use? How "personal" can they get with your system?
A few questions: Is there any way to get photos into the game (besides those taken with an Eyecam or whatever it's called)?
I've read that Sony is yanking copyrighted levels from the online portion; however, can you make one (let's say, a recreation of a Mario level) and keep it for your own personal use? How "personal" can they get with your system?
11-12-08, 08:42 AM
#758
DVD Talk Hero
500k for an original IP is pretty damn solid. Especially considering its somewhat limited appeal (it is super cutesy which is a tough sell to a large portion of the 25 and under male group) and less than original gameplay (level designer not withstanding).
I'm pretty happy with the game, and sales should do well as the holiday season picks up. Comparing it against Gears 2 and Fable 2 is just silly.
I'm pretty happy with the game, and sales should do well as the holiday season picks up. Comparing it against Gears 2 and Fable 2 is just silly.
11-12-08, 09:11 AM
#759
DVD Talk Legend
500k for an original IP is pretty damn solid. Especially considering its somewhat limited appeal (it is super cutesy which is a tough sell to a large portion of the 25 and under male group) and less than original gameplay (level designer not withstanding).
I'm pretty happy with the game, and sales should do well as the holiday season picks up. Comparing it against Gears 2 and Fable 2 is just silly.
I'm pretty happy with the game, and sales should do well as the holiday season picks up. Comparing it against Gears 2 and Fable 2 is just silly.
11-12-08, 09:31 AM
#760
DVD Talk Godfather & 2020 TOTY Winner
Thread Starter
I'm stunned to be reading this. I really thought this game would sell well -- it's so fantasitc. I also didn't know about the level deletion; that completely sucks. When did that start? I played a cute Ghostbusters level just days ago. They had to know since the beta what sort of levels people would build, so why the sudden change in policy?
11-12-08, 09:32 AM
#761
DVD Talk Hero
But in the days of "millions of copies sold" it isn't shit and probably doesn't bode well for us seeing this series continue. I would love to see more improvements and future installments but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe as the Holidays near they can hit the million mark and word of mouth will continue to spread.
There have been 17 games that have broken 1 million copies worldwide on the PS3. Of those, MGS4, Resistance, Motorstorm, Pro-Evolution Soccer and Uncharted were pack-ins at various points at various places, the remaining titles were mostly sequels, generally the 4th (MGS4, Ratchet and Clank, GTA4, Call of Duty 4, Devil May Cry 4...) the only non-sequel, non-pack-ins to break the 1m barrier? Heavenly Sword and Assassins Creed.
At least LBP didn't pull a Motorstorm: Pacific Rift (90,000 copies in 2 weeks).
Point being, 500k worldwide in 3 weeks is pretty impressive. Especially considering its (likely) relatively low production costs (compared to say MGS4 or GTA4)
1 Grand Theft Auto IV 4.80m
2 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 3.71m
3 MotorStorm 3.62m (Includes Bundle Sales)
4 Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots 3.46m (Includes Bundle Sales)
5 Resistance: Fall of Man 3.23m (Includes Bundle Sales)
6 Assassin's Creed 2.94m
7 Gran Turismo 5 Prologue 2.21m (Includes Bundle Sales)
8 Uncharted: Drake's Fortune 1.95m (Includes Bundle Sales)
9 Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 1.66m (Includes Bundle Sales)
10 Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock 1.64m
11 FIFA 08 1.60m
12 Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction 1.40m (Includes Bundle Sales)
13 Need for Speed: ProStreet 1.39m
14 Devil May Cry 4 1.27m
15 Heavenly Sword 1.22m
16 FIFA Soccer 09 1.08m
17 WWE SmackDown! vs. RAW 2008 1.04m
Last edited by RichC2; 11-12-08 at 09:46 AM.
11-12-08, 09:39 AM
#762
DVD Talk Godfather
I think a big factor was release date. Pushing it a week and pitting it against Guitar Hero: World tour and only a week or so from Gears 2 was a mistake. Gamers only have so much money to spend and they don't get any bigger than those two which are probably the biggest of the fall/winter.
11-12-08, 09:52 AM
#763
Video Game Talk Reviewer
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I think a big factor was release date. Pushing it a week and pitting it against Guitar Hero: World tour and only a week or so from Gears 2 was a mistake. Gamers only have so much money to spend and they don't get any bigger than those two which are probably the biggest of the fall/winter.
That was one thing I was impressed with when the 360 had some games like Viva Pinata, etc.. Their MSRP was $39.99
11-12-08, 11:38 AM
#764
DVD Talk Godfather
But in the days of "millions of copies sold" it isn't shit and probably doesn't bode well for us seeing this series continue. I would love to see more improvements and future installments but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe as the Holidays near they can hit the million mark and word of mouth will continue to spread.
Media Molecule is already working on a sequel. Now, that doesn't mean it will get cancelled but there's been plenty of games that didn't do very well (i.e. immediate million sellers) that got sequels anyway: Viva Pińata, etc.
Little Big Planet has outsold Viva Pińata. VP barely sold 150,000 worldwide its first month. VP got a sequel, which is also selling poorly.
And Katamari Damacy was also not a hot-seller at first.
I agree and think that LBP won't make it into a first-tier IP for the PS3. But hopefully there's enough interest to make it worthwhile to make a sequel.
11-12-08, 12:17 PM
#766
DVD Talk Hero
My stepdad was ga-ga for this game all year, and then I get it and we play it a few times, and he agan says he wants it, but can't afford another game right now. Then Call of Duty: WaW comes out, and he magically finds the funds to buy it 
Now all his other games, including Bioshock (he's only on the second area) take a backseat to multiplayer CoD.
Now all his other games, including Bioshock (he's only on the second area) take a backseat to multiplayer CoD.
11-12-08, 02:33 PM
#767
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As user-friendly as the design tools are (for the most part), making any substantial level sure takes a lot of time. I'm hoping to set aside a few hours tonight, put my head down, and just push through until my half-completed level is all done. I think it'll be pretty fun once it's all finished, and I already have an idea for my next level. I love this game. 
11-12-08, 06:01 PM
#768
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Unkie...
Yep, it's definitely a time-burner, but it speaks to the creative soul in me! I finished building a functional Ferris wheel for my amusement park, and next I'm tackling a rollercoaster! You're always gonna tweak things as well - I want to change the gondola cars on the wheel now that I've made it work.
Yep, it's definitely a time-burner, but it speaks to the creative soul in me! I finished building a functional Ferris wheel for my amusement park, and next I'm tackling a rollercoaster! You're always gonna tweak things as well - I want to change the gondola cars on the wheel now that I've made it work.
11-12-08, 06:12 PM
#769
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Oh, no doubt. Once upon a time, I wanted to be a game developer. I even made a crappy Arkanoid clone in college. The fact that I can now easily make full game levels in LBP in a few days is why it's my game of the year.
11-13-08, 01:31 AM
#770
DVD Talk Special Edition
I think the main reason this hasn't sold as well as we thought is that Sony hasn't been advertising it at all. I think Sony has missed out on a huge opportunity with LBP. They should have bundled it with the PS3 and made a huge push for the casual and Wii gamers out there with it.
It seems that, somehow, all the hype LBP was getting was missed by the suits at Sony and they just kinda put the game out with no marketing at all. I mean, other than the hardcore fans that keep up with the new releases, who else knew this game was coming or what it was about? I have a few friends who are just casual gamers and only have a couple of games for their PS3 and none of them had even heard of LBP.
Here is a link to an article which makes the same point. It is about Killzone 2, but it makes the same points. http://www.gamingfront.net/news.php?readmore=100
It seems that, somehow, all the hype LBP was getting was missed by the suits at Sony and they just kinda put the game out with no marketing at all. I mean, other than the hardcore fans that keep up with the new releases, who else knew this game was coming or what it was about? I have a few friends who are just casual gamers and only have a couple of games for their PS3 and none of them had even heard of LBP.
Here is a link to an article which makes the same point. It is about Killzone 2, but it makes the same points. http://www.gamingfront.net/news.php?readmore=100
Last edited by collven; 11-13-08 at 03:12 AM.
11-13-08, 07:56 AM
#771
DVD Talk Godfather
Here is a link to an article which makes the same point. It is about Killzone 2, but it makes the same points. http://www.gamingfront.net/news.php?readmore=100
Fanboys aside, you'd have to be clueless to think R2 will sell better than GOW2. Resistance sold because it was a launch title not because it was this revolutionary experience. That would be the same as swapping out Resistance 2 with Perfect Dark Zero 2. Sure PD0 sold well, but it has more to do with the dearth of games for months on end than the quality of the title.As for the whole article, the author has a point. However if every big game had a huge marketing push the fanboys would have gone nuts, and not in a good way. Granted it tanked, but starting a few months back you had Haze, Socom, Resistance 2, Killzone 2 and MAG around the corner. Not to mention the third parties with COD4, Orange Box, Bioshock, COD: WaW, Battlefield: BC, the Darkness, Turok, etc. Marketing would have turned their precious 'it's not a FPS machine like the Xbox' PS3
into a 360 also ran. One of the last & outdated arguments, in the system wars, that just won't go away. The difference between all the shooters though and LBP is that LBP has a chance to have some serious legs when FPS games come and go like the breeze. It's not too late to turn it around.
I still think they should have marketed the systems in two different bundles and left it at that. A 'movie' bundle that comes with HD cables, a remote and a movie, then a 'game' bundle that comes with a game, an extra controller(or headset, HD cables) and maybe a download code for a PSN title to whet people's appetites. That way they hit both markets, marketing is clear and concise and they don't confuse the consumer.
