re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Yes it is.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Good article hdtv00. I'm not in the, "Steve didn't do it," camp. Nor am I in the, "Steve did it," camp. I simply don't know. But I'm certainly in the camp that thinks that trial was horrible. I've talked privately with my wife about most of what the article covers, but that "scientist" definitely went into details and examples that shine more light on the problematic approach.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

That was a good point that the lawyers raised. Also, the prosecution must want us to believe that SA is a mastermind criminal, so damn good that he was able to clean away every speck of blood splatter from the garbage, from hundreds of items yet he didn't have the sense to use the car crusher?

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I think most are outraged more at how horrible the trial was than anything.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

There is most definitely "Reasonable doubt" on Steven Avery.

The initial vote by the Jury was 7 not guilty; 3 guilty; and 2 undecided.


I can see how the not guilty votes may have been swayed by a juror's pointing out something like the above. Given what we have seen there is no way I could have found him guilty if on the jury. Even with all the follow-up stuff I have read I still can't find him guilty. That does not mean innocence either but there is way to much reasonable doubt at this time for me.

Poor Brendan; my girlfriend was in tears over this. If what we see is even close to accurate he got shafted so bad it makes me ill. Maybe something will come of this and it will force the WI State Supreme Court to review. Lots of heat on this and at some point there will be heads that will roll in time. I am sure of it. Just like Katz; that was awesome. Fuck that guy and his team.

The fact that those 2 cops Andrew Holborn and James Lenk were allowed to be in on the investigation is unreal to me and I am shocked it was allowed to happen. I have a friend in Colorado that is a former police officer and he is under the opinion like many that they planted evidence and are dirty. Full disclosure on my friend he was fired from the force so he may have a small grudge.

It will be interesting to see what shakes out when the smoke starts to clear. There is a lot of heat on this and it will only get more intense as more and more watch it.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Nancy Grace is chiming in on the "He's guilty" train tonight with a special. Then the Discovery/ID special.

Everybody trying to pull numbers from Netflix's obvious successes :lol:

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Grace is a former prosecutor, of course she sides with the State.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I think the trial of both defendants was a mockery of justice. However if he was framed, this would be an example, like OJ, of framing a guilty man.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

In your opinion. It's nice that you are be so confident about it (if I ever need a jury, I don't want you on it).

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Whose opinion did you think I was posting? I also wasn't aware that you had to leave your brains at the door before typing.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I've always thought that there should be limits on where you can have a jury. What kind of trials I mean.

People are stupid. Period.

And it works for both sides. Both sides are always looking for an advantage in the jury selection.
So, for homicides, were things get really complex, as we saw in this case, you are basically trying to manipulate the jury. Both sides, defense and prosecutors.

So yeah, that should be changed.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

We need not a jury of peers (whatever that means), but people trained specifically to be jurors.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I thought of a new name for this show: "Netflix Presents: Get to the Fucking Point Already"

I watched the first two episodes last night. I'm still waiting for them to get to the fucking point. The first episode teased that we might be getting somewhere. Second episode did not fulfill that promise.

Or how about: "Netflix Presents: The Thin Blue Line Stretched Out To 10 Fucking Hours"

I liked it better 30 years ago when Errol Morris did the same thing in 97 minutes.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Nancy G. is a loud, entitled piece of shit. I don't believe anything that comes out of her lying, conniving big mouth.

Agree with all of the above.

BD's conviction was a heinous miscarriage of justice. It's truly vile that this happened. Anyone with half a brain could see that BD didn't do anything, but was lying in order to please the investigators. There was 0 evidence to support his alleged claims. The jury must have been either scared of retaliation, or they had their collective heads up their collective asses. Agree that the investigators who interviewed/grilled BD & Ken K.'s group are scum, and should all be put on trial themselves for their part in this mockery of justice.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Just watched episode 3.
Christ that press conference was painful. Was the kid 16 years old? you would've thought they would mention it every now and again!

Also watching those interview tapes was just terrible. The part when he was talking to his mother and he was saying they told him to say stuff. You could almost imagine the cops watching a monitor outside and saying "this is when we need to get back in there".

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Spoilers, I suppose?

http://i.imgur.com/l3rLK6P.jpg?1

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Nice! I hope it's a good law firm.

Wow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Zellner

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I remember the Ryan Ferguson case which Zellner worked on. A documentary on that case was made and went through festival rounds last year.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Mrs. Quack and I just finished binging this over the last 20 hours. We're spent.

We both believe there was nowhere enough evidence to convict either SA or DM. It's insane to think how all of this went down the way it did. I couldn't stand how much the M County sheriff's department, etc were involved after we were told by Kratz, they wouldn't be allowed to be. I mean wtf?

I was very much suspicious of the brother and ex-boyfriend, just from that one little snippet when the reporters were interviewing them around the time her car was found. Just stuck out as a little suspect.

Will post more once my head empties a little bit.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

In looking into the issue of evidence not presented in the series it was only through this thread that I came across the "Brendan's bleached stained jeans on or about Halloween" bit.

Even with bleaching the floor I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be SOME blood spatter on all that junk in either the garage or bedroom.

Fascinating series - and even with a filmmaker bias it still comes off as a couple of monumentally fucked up trials/convictions. Apparently the concept of reasonable doubt is unknown up there.

The West Memphis 3 parallels are chilling.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

"In 20 years, Kathleen T. Zellner had righted more wrongful convictions than any private attorney in America."

I actually saw her speak last year. She is a total badass. He's in good hands there.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

You may be interested in reading this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ej65jscjwg...Kelly.pdf?dl=0

It not only shows exactly what Brandon said about the murder during his confession but also says that he confessed to seeing her shot in the garage. That is what led them to finding the bullet with Teresa's DNA on it. Further, that led to the bullet being linked to Avery's gun.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

:shrug: or plant it.


I have scoured the internet and have been reading everything I can find on it. I have read several arguments that are convincing towards guilt as well for both. I keep coming back to "where is the blood"? None. It is not possible for there not to be any. Still there is reasonable doubt for me in everything I have read even that.

re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I used to lament that the incredible documentary Shoah with its burdensome running time over 10 hours kept people away from a truly amazing experience of both cinema and history. But when I see that people can watch 10 hours on a subject that could have been handled in a 1 hour Dateline NBC episode I rejoice. Knowing that millions of viewers would invest so much time in this small true crime story, then surely Shoah, a film with a subject worthy of its length, is more likely than ever to find viewers ready to embrace an extremely long form doc.