Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I finished up Part 2 tonight. It continues to be a fascinating and frustrating case. Feel really bad for Brendan, after winning two overturns (and being hours away from release), he keeps getting fucked by the state. One thing I wish Brendan's team had done differently is allow the lead lawyer (the older guy) to speak to the judges instead of the young, inexperienced woman. I cringed at times listening to her attempt to argue with the judges and repeatedly put in her place.

On the other hand, Kathleen Zellner seems like a hell of a lawyer. Leaves no stone unturned, everything is looked at from different angles, etc. I think she will eventually secure Avery's release. This 2nd Part just re-enforced my belief that he was setup.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Finished the second series last night. Agree with what has mostly been posted, it's essentially a retread in many ways, and it's frustrating as hell to see Brendan in jail still. Could have been a two hour documentary. Zellner seems tenacious as hell. Lots of disclosure violations, etc. To me, a key point has always been the cop calling in the license plate of the missing Rav 4 and then having it found a few days later. There's further development on this point.

My guess is that the cops tried to frame Avery because they were pissed about his lawsuit and having being set free before, and they convinced others (Teresa's ex for example) to help them frame him because they were so sure he was guilty. Brendan was the collateral damage.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Started this on Saturday. 4 episodes in. Pissed off all over again. I don't recall what it was but after doing some follow-up and reading on the case I read a few things that made me feel that he was possibly guilty. That is now gone.

His new lawyer Zellner just shows how inept his previous ones were.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I always thought the boyfriend or brother were pretty suspect, no pun intended.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Well the episode I just watched she (Zellner)

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

As long as you reassure me there's no version of this where Steven Avery is free, but Brendan Dassey is still in prison.

As bizarre as that scenario is, I think anyone following the story realizes just how bizarre the legal system can be at times.

I have this snippet playing in my head where an official looks (without shame) right into a camera and says, "They're two different cases."

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I'm not sure I want to spend another 10 hours watching a documentary I already know the ending to. I had never heard of the case before watching Part 1, but now every legal loss for the Averys is national news.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I was just telling a friend of mine the same thing. The 1st season you had no idea what was going to happen, but the 2nd season is someone predictable. I felt the same way but watched it anyway. It does lose some suspense when you know they aren't getting out yet the story plays it up a few times. It is still worth a watch to hear about the new evidence and to hear all the layers of bs they have to go through in the legal system.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

I'm 4 episodes in so far & it isn't holding my attention at all. So far all of it seems like a showcase for the plastic surgery enhanced lawyer with the weird nostrils.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Lots of speculation that Attorney General Brad Schimel was voted out because of this. Maybe the new AG won't be such a dick about the case. Fuck Wisconsin. I can't believe they keep turning Zellner down even with all the new evidence presented. She was denied again in September.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

So, just finishing up the second season of this being late to the party. To be honest, after watching the first and then reading up on things left out of the doc I was in the camp that Steven killed Theresa but Brendan was not involved in the murder, at least not in the way he told the police, but was involved in the clean up and disposal.

Season 2 isn't doing much to sway me. I'm just trying to see both sides here:

1) Steven had Theresa come to photograph the car, hiding his identity in doing so. She arrived. He abducts, possibly rapes, then shoots her. Her body is cut up and burned. Her personal items placed in a barrel and her car hidden on his property possibly to destroy later (which is why he kept the key). Brendan comes over to help him clean up the blood and burn the body.

2) Theresa comes to the photograph the car and leaves. Somewhere between Avery's and her appointment to visit her mother she (along with her car) are taken. She is shot. Suspects include ex-boyfriend, Bobby Dassey, the police themselves, among others. Her blood is taken and planted in her car. Her personal items are taken and later planted in the barrel near Steven's trailer. The car is eventually planted on Steven's property, engine messed with, and plates removed and tossed into a nearing car. Somewhere Theresa is cut up. The police or somebody break into Steven's trailer where he left blood in a sink from a cut finger. They take that blood and plant it in the Rav 4. Steven is arrested. During searches the police take a bullet from the garage and plant Theresa's DNA on it from one of her chapsticks. They acquire Steven's sweat or urine or some other fluid and apply it under the hood latch. The key is planted in SAs trailer and his DNA is planted on it. They burn up TH somewhere and scatter the bones on Avry's property. They coerce a confession out of Brendan and prosecutors pressure Bobby to change his story from seeing TH leave to seeing her car there when he left to go hunting.

I know I'm missing a lot here, but just seems like #2, while possible, is not probably compared to all the things that would have to click for #2 to happen (i.e.: the people being lucky to find SAs blood in the sink, knowing that TH left the Avery property and he was the last to see her). If going with the cops did it, I find it easier to believe that SA killed her than the police killing an innocent woman to get out of paying SA.

Granted, there are some things that don't gel and I can't explain (like TH cell phone pinging off a tower away from SAs property), but the conspiracy is a big pill to swallow.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Keep in mind that we don't convict people because they "probably" did something. The standard is "beyond a reasonable doubt," and the onus is on the prosecution, not the defense the present a case that crosses that threshold. The defense doesn't have to prove scenario #2 happened exactly the way you described, but to poke enough holes in the prosecution's version of events to mean no reasonable jury could convict on it beyond a reasonable doubt. The fact that you say scenario #2 is even possible means there's a reasonable doubt; only if you can say it's not at all possible for some or all of scenario #2 to have happened should one convict.

Basically, the police misconduct on this case should be enough to overturn the verdicts. They tainted the investigation and coerced a false confession. Even if Avery is guilty, we can't know for certain, and unless we know for certain he shouldn't be convicted and imprisoned.

Re: "Making a Murderer" -- Netflix documentary series
 

Just watched both seasons. I liked both of them. It is definitely biased TV, but it is pretty hard to ignore the work Zellner has done. I think there is no question he was framed and evidence was planted but I would not completely rule out him being guilty. That said, Zellner's explanations and forensic evidence are pretty compelling. Clearly the show is attacking all of WI and their law enforcement so they will do anything to keep these verdicts as is.