True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
03-11-14, 06:15 PM
#107
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03-11-14, 06:24 PM
#108
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Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
03-12-14, 10:57 AM
#112
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Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
That's pretty much exactly what it meant to me too. I get what they were going for: an empty feeling at the end, knowing that the job wasn't fully done but that's how real life works. Doesn't change the fact they introduced all these elements to this big conspiracy and gave us no closure for it.
Hell, we don't even know how right Rust was as far as the whole conspiracy goes. In the first episode Marty tells Rust not to assume the story because it'll end with him trying to fit pieces of the puzzle into his pre-determined story. Rust could have been off, maybe by a lot, but it all fit into the story he already created.
Hell, we don't even know how right Rust was as far as the whole conspiracy goes. In the first episode Marty tells Rust not to assume the story because it'll end with him trying to fit pieces of the puzzle into his pre-determined story. Rust could have been off, maybe by a lot, but it all fit into the story he already created.
The point is that they missed their chance to get the main players back in the day through their own personal fuck-ups. So now they come together again to at least put an end to it. I didn't need anything more than that.
03-12-14, 11:06 AM
#113
DVD Talk Legend
Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
I think people need to give the Marty's daughter thing a rest. The idea that she was involved in some way is a pretty far out fan theory. I never bought it myself. It picked up a lot of steam on the internet, but just because it wasn't true doesn't mean those scenes were pointless. They served a pretty clear purpose, and I don't know why people are so focused on it.
The fan theory that the father in law was involved? That I'll admit was out there, but the idea that there was more going on with the daughter was hardly a crazy theory.
Last edited by Goat3001; 03-12-14 at 11:12 AM.
03-12-14, 11:19 AM
#114
DVD Talk Legend
03-12-14, 06:24 PM
#115
DVD Talk Legend
Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
WTF? She stayed with Marty for no less than 15 years, including seven years after one of his mistresses came clean to his wife. We never heard them argue about money or anything financial related.
I think it's a huge leap to take to go thinking she made sure she found someone with money to marry on a second go round. I gotta think an honest, non-adulterating one was higher on the list.
I think it's a huge leap to take to go thinking she made sure she found someone with money to marry on a second go round. I gotta think an honest, non-adulterating one was higher on the list.
03-12-14, 06:45 PM
#116
DVD Talk Legend
Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
Variety.com has posted a deleted scene of Rust breaking up with his girlfriend:
http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/true...up-1201130309/
http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/true...up-1201130309/
03-12-14, 10:37 PM
#117
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
I'll stick with my theory that a husband that doesn't whore around was highest on her list.
03-13-14, 12:12 AM
#118
DVD Talk Hero
Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
Variety.com has posted a deleted scene of Rust breaking up with his girlfriend:
http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/true...up-1201130309/
http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/true...up-1201130309/
03-13-14, 10:51 AM
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Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
It ended up being fan theory but it was hardly "pretty far out". They were chasing a cult that raped and murdered girls. They purposefully focused scenes the showed that the daughter knows a thing or two about gang rape. What were we supposed to think?
The fan theory that the father in law was involved? That I'll admit was out there, but the idea that there was more going on with the daughter was hardly a crazy theory.
The fan theory that the father in law was involved? That I'll admit was out there, but the idea that there was more going on with the daughter was hardly a crazy theory.
I mean, that's really the only thing that makes sense at this point. Clearly there was no actual connection with the daughter. They made a point of trying to make us see him as selfish and egotistical for screwing around to not bring his work home with him, to detox from it before walking through the door at night, and then he ends up estranged from them all - that the best thing he could've done was to stay away from his family, not be a part of their lives, lest the darkness he investigated infect his family. That subconsciously, he wasn't having the affair to leave the dark stuff there, but to force his family away from him - which he did, which, based on the hospital scene, was clearly the best thing for the wife and kids.
What I just didn't like about this show, really didn't like, was all the subterfuge and secrecy and cultish BS that ended up meaning jack crap. Early on they made a point of dropping clues and acting like the whodunit was going to be pivotal, yet in the end... no big thing, it just dropped in their laps - yellow king, murals, everything, pointless. Even the flashbacks and "what's the big mystery in the present day?" In the end, green ears leads to a house painted green leads to Errol. Totally anticlimactic. Perhaps the point was the big bad boogeyman was nobody special, but it seemed like a tease.
Having all that richness, all the weird stuff, hell, basically all the first seven episodes mean absolutely zero to solving the case? Clearly they wanted to tell the story of two detectives and the mystery's impact on their lives versus the mystery itself - which is laudable considering few shows have really done that - but the yellow king, murals, cults and stuff *really* had the makings of a kickass mystery conspiracy for my tastes, so it's disappointing to me that it meant little at journey's end. Still an excellent show, just not exactly the show I expected nor anticipated for the first five or six episodes.
03-13-14, 12:29 PM
#120
Banned
Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
I understand the letdown some are feeling toward the finale. It did sort of turn into the sort of Thomas Harris showdown scenario we've come to expect.
As far as all of the cultish stuff kinda getting pushed into the ditch, maybe that was part of the creators' intent.
The banality of evil.
It's like Hitlers' notorious henchman, who were rightfully feared but who perhaps took on some sort of supernatural, monstrous presence as though they were immortal. When their pathetic former lives were revealed, it probably came as a shock to many who imagined them to have always been some charismatic, powerful presence prior to the rise of the National Socialist Party.
So the Yellow King turns out to be a nobody on a lawnmower painting the school facilities. In some ways, that's the most frightening revelation of all.
As far as all of the cultish stuff kinda getting pushed into the ditch, maybe that was part of the creators' intent.
The banality of evil.
It's like Hitlers' notorious henchman, who were rightfully feared but who perhaps took on some sort of supernatural, monstrous presence as though they were immortal. When their pathetic former lives were revealed, it probably came as a shock to many who imagined them to have always been some charismatic, powerful presence prior to the rise of the National Socialist Party.
So the Yellow King turns out to be a nobody on a lawnmower painting the school facilities. In some ways, that's the most frightening revelation of all.
03-13-14, 02:03 PM
#121
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Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
Like I said, obviously that's what they were going for - the boogeyman is just the Gardner. What's more, I actually think they got exactly what they wanted - now that I think about it, I think the creators wanted the fan reaction to be a part of their... message?
In that we look for the supernatural or unexplained, invent imaginative and fictitious narratives out of nothing. I betcha the creators were sitting back in content at all the extraordinary theories and "look at that screen grab! The drawing had a Celtic symbol for this and that... ... ... ... the daughter killed everybody!"
So, I can understand and respect their intent, just doesn't mean I exactly enjoyed it the way I wanted to. Nor, for that matter, that 99.999% of average Joe's watching it will even, for a split second, be so erudite or contemplative.
Anyways, reason for replying is actually realizing I forgot one thing in my post - surviving a knife wound like that? Are you kidding me? *that* was unrealistic. But I thought fine, maybe it's possible - lifting a 200lb dude by a knife in the gut = ripping your stomach to shreds, but maybe, juuuuuust maybe a miracle...
Then he pulls the f*ing knife out lonnng before help arrives. Has bad Hollywood taught us would be doctors nothing? You keep it in there, in case it's wedged in an artery, to staunch the bleedout. The second he pulled that knife out, sepsis or no (your intestines shredded, $#!t from your gut mixing with blood = dead in a week from infection), he died of blood loss. Absolutely, unquestionably.
For a show which seemed almost preachy about 'realism, gritty, believable' against the absurd and expectations, having such a ridiculous Hollywood ending *really* made them seem totally, completely, absolutely hypocritical and full of $#!t that should've been in Rust's bloodstream.
In that we look for the supernatural or unexplained, invent imaginative and fictitious narratives out of nothing. I betcha the creators were sitting back in content at all the extraordinary theories and "look at that screen grab! The drawing had a Celtic symbol for this and that... ... ... ... the daughter killed everybody!"
So, I can understand and respect their intent, just doesn't mean I exactly enjoyed it the way I wanted to. Nor, for that matter, that 99.999% of average Joe's watching it will even, for a split second, be so erudite or contemplative.
Anyways, reason for replying is actually realizing I forgot one thing in my post - surviving a knife wound like that? Are you kidding me? *that* was unrealistic. But I thought fine, maybe it's possible - lifting a 200lb dude by a knife in the gut = ripping your stomach to shreds, but maybe, juuuuuust maybe a miracle...
Then he pulls the f*ing knife out lonnng before help arrives. Has bad Hollywood taught us would be doctors nothing? You keep it in there, in case it's wedged in an artery, to staunch the bleedout. The second he pulled that knife out, sepsis or no (your intestines shredded, $#!t from your gut mixing with blood = dead in a week from infection), he died of blood loss. Absolutely, unquestionably.
For a show which seemed almost preachy about 'realism, gritty, believable' against the absurd and expectations, having such a ridiculous Hollywood ending *really* made them seem totally, completely, absolutely hypocritical and full of $#!t that should've been in Rust's bloodstream.
03-13-14, 02:16 PM
#122
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Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
I understand the letdown some are feeling toward the finale. It did sort of turn into the sort of Thomas Harris showdown scenario we've come to expect.
As far as all of the cultish stuff kinda getting pushed into the ditch, maybe that was part of the creators' intent.
The banality of evil.
It's like Hitlers' notorious henchman, who were rightfully feared but who perhaps took on some sort of supernatural, monstrous presence as though they were immortal. When their pathetic former lives were revealed, it probably came as a shock to many who imagined them to have always been some charismatic, powerful presence prior to the rise of the National Socialist Party.
So the Yellow King turns out to be a nobody on a lawnmower painting the school facilities. In some ways, that's the most frightening revelation of all.
As far as all of the cultish stuff kinda getting pushed into the ditch, maybe that was part of the creators' intent.
The banality of evil.
It's like Hitlers' notorious henchman, who were rightfully feared but who perhaps took on some sort of supernatural, monstrous presence as though they were immortal. When their pathetic former lives were revealed, it probably came as a shock to many who imagined them to have always been some charismatic, powerful presence prior to the rise of the National Socialist Party.
So the Yellow King turns out to be a nobody on a lawnmower painting the school facilities. In some ways, that's the most frightening revelation of all.
03-13-14, 02:25 PM
#123
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Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
Like I said, obviously that's what they were going for - the boogeyman is just the Gardner. What's more, I actually think they got exactly what they wanted - now that I think about it, I think the creators wanted the fan reaction to be a part of their... message?
In that we look for the supernatural or unexplained, invent imaginative and fictitious narratives out of nothing. I betcha the creators were sitting back in content at all the extraordinary theories and "look at that screen grab! The drawing had a Celtic symbol for this and that... ... ... ... the daughter killed everybody!"
So, I can understand and respect their intent, just doesn't mean I exactly enjoyed it the way I wanted to. Nor, for that matter, that 99.999% of average Joe's watching it will even, for a split second, be so erudite or contemplative.
Anyways, reason for replying is actually realizing I forgot one thing in my post - surviving a knife wound like that? Are you kidding me? *that* was unrealistic. But I thought fine, maybe it's possible - lifting a 200lb dude by a knife in the gut = ripping your stomach to shreds, but maybe, juuuuuust maybe a miracle...
Then he pulls the f*ing knife out lonnng before help arrives. Has bad Hollywood taught us would be doctors nothing? You keep it in there, in case it's wedged in an artery, to staunch the bleedout. The second he pulled that knife out, sepsis or no (your intestines shredded, $#!t from your gut mixing with blood = dead in a week from infection), he died of blood loss. Absolutely, unquestionably.
For a show which seemed almost preachy about 'realism, gritty, believable' against the absurd and expectations, having such a ridiculous Hollywood ending *really* made them seem totally, completely, absolutely hypocritical and full of $#!t that should've been in Rust's bloodstream.
In that we look for the supernatural or unexplained, invent imaginative and fictitious narratives out of nothing. I betcha the creators were sitting back in content at all the extraordinary theories and "look at that screen grab! The drawing had a Celtic symbol for this and that... ... ... ... the daughter killed everybody!"
So, I can understand and respect their intent, just doesn't mean I exactly enjoyed it the way I wanted to. Nor, for that matter, that 99.999% of average Joe's watching it will even, for a split second, be so erudite or contemplative.
Anyways, reason for replying is actually realizing I forgot one thing in my post - surviving a knife wound like that? Are you kidding me? *that* was unrealistic. But I thought fine, maybe it's possible - lifting a 200lb dude by a knife in the gut = ripping your stomach to shreds, but maybe, juuuuuust maybe a miracle...
Then he pulls the f*ing knife out lonnng before help arrives. Has bad Hollywood taught us would be doctors nothing? You keep it in there, in case it's wedged in an artery, to staunch the bleedout. The second he pulled that knife out, sepsis or no (your intestines shredded, $#!t from your gut mixing with blood = dead in a week from infection), he died of blood loss. Absolutely, unquestionably.
For a show which seemed almost preachy about 'realism, gritty, believable' against the absurd and expectations, having such a ridiculous Hollywood ending *really* made them seem totally, completely, absolutely hypocritical and full of $#!t that should've been in Rust's bloodstream.
http://gothamist.com/2013/04/03/woma...ng_stabbed.php
http://www.contracostatimes.com/news...230?source=rss
http://www.rugbyadvertiser.co.uk/new...mach-1-1481627
And thats just page one of the Google search.
It's a likely kill, but not a certain kill.
03-13-14, 03:44 PM
#124
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Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
People survive insane stabbings, including hunting knives to the belly, all the time, especially if the guy angled the knife upwards to lift him.
http://gothamist.com/2013/04/03/woma...ng_stabbed.php
http://www.contracostatimes.com/news...230?source=rss
http://www.rugbyadvertiser.co.uk/new...mach-1-1481627
And thats just page one of the Google search.
It's a likely kill, but not a certain kill.
http://gothamist.com/2013/04/03/woma...ng_stabbed.php
http://www.contracostatimes.com/news...230?source=rss
http://www.rugbyadvertiser.co.uk/new...mach-1-1481627
And thats just page one of the Google search.
It's a likely kill, but not a certain kill.
The attacker made a point of slicing upwards, then jerking it around. Then, lastly, lifting the dude up with it - so figure 180-200lb of weight supported by the blade - it was either the dullest knife ever or got caught on a rib, lest it should've rended him in two.
Finally, there's another vital fact here versus your cases - this dude was a killer. Of humans. Like, a lot of them. No way he doesn't have a basic knowledge of anatomy and killing blows. It makes the 'Maybe it was a miracle and missed everything's unbelievable. He knew where organs are, where arteries are - and even if he did and aimed intentionally not to kill Rust, *lifting an adult male in the air by a knife in their gut* is game over, man. Game. Over.
And secondly, as with your case about the 10 inch blade - I imagine when someone stabs another normally, there's shock and "holy shit. What did I just do?" They are likely to hesitate, or failing that lost in an all out rage, stopping the second they realize what they did. Here, a murderer is going to keep going - exactly like Errol did. Not letting go, not hesitating; shoving it in angled, twisting and jerking, etc. Probably every Googled miracle stabbing survival has the normal human reaction to stabbing another working in it's favor to increase the likelihood of minimizing damage.
So I just cannot accept him surviving that, whether from sepsis, organ damage or bleeding out after pulling the knife out when EMTs were still a good ten minutes away from getting to work on him.
Last edited by Coladar1; 03-13-14 at 03:59 PM.
03-13-14, 03:46 PM
#125
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: True Detective - Season Finale - "Form and Void" - 3/9/14
The knife stab was by far the least goofiest thing of that whole 25 minute stretch starting with WH's Scooby Doo moment with the house paint job and ending with the beginning in the hospital room.