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-   -   Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/554954-lost-2-hour-season-finale-incident-5-13-09-a.html)

DVD Josh 05-14-09 03:33 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by scott1598 (Post 9444180)
explain...

I don't know if they named Titus Welliver's character other than "Man #2" yet, but I am assigning him the name Esau (as are many others), the biblical brother of Jacob. One good, one bad, one black, one white (clothing wise), one jealous, one loving, etc. The parallels are all there.

aJOHNymous 05-14-09 03:40 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
From the Fuselage:


So, once upon a time there were two powerful gods who opposed but could not kill each other. Over the centuries they brought human beings to the island. The god of blessing kept hoping that they would not turn on each other but achieve peace and harmony. Every time he was mistaken, much to the delight of the other. But still the other god was not satisfied, because he could not destroy his rival. He created a dark cloud of smoke that could mimic all matter of living things and sought to use it to find the "loophole" which would allow the death of his rival, known as Jacob. And after many cycles he succeeded thanks to the careful manipulations of both John "I have a destiny" Locke and Benjamin "What about me?" Linus.

But then someone may have reset the clock.

Anyway, that's how I interpret what we saw.

My guess is that these ancient powers have been playing with the destiny of humankind for a long, long time. Jacob/good wins if there ever comes a cycle on the island when those present don't divide up into us vs. others and try to kill each others. Smokey Guy wins if he ever succeeds in destroying Jacob. That's the salvation or damnation of mankind, the one time it ends instead of cycling through these constant conflicts.

If only everyone would listen to Rose and Bernard, black and white in harmony. And of course the dog. Dogs know.

Michael Corvin 05-14-09 03:40 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by s}{ammer (Post 9444255)
Set also has an animal face with a long snout. I am not sure if it was a croc or not, I just noticed the long snout.

Looked like a croc to me.


Originally Posted by s}{ammer (Post 9444255)
As for my previous posts, you are taking it the wrong way. Read my posts and you will see I am saying this isn't God vs. Satan so much as it is god vs god. There is no good guy or bad guy, they are just playing a game with the people being the pawns.

No. You distinctly insulted an entire religious sect of the world by saying the following:


Originally Posted by s}{ammer (Post 9443975)
The Jesus in Christianity is based off of Horus from the Egyptian mythology.

That has nothing to do with the show, it's a personal opinion that doesn't fit with a lot of people's beliefs. Personally, I don't care, it's just an opinion, but I can see how someone could be offended by it.

Gunde 05-14-09 03:45 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Just curious: Why do you all think Jack's plan was crazy. What's so wrong about wanting to fix things and get everything back to the way it was meant to be. Is it better to pretend to belong in the 70s?

IMO Sawyer was the crazy one. "We made a life here, it was good". You don't belong here you nimwit!

dsa_shea 05-14-09 03:49 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Gunde (Post 9444342)
Just curious: Why do you all think Jack's plan was crazy. What's so wrong about wanting to fix things and get everything back to the way it was meant to be. Is it better to pretend to belong in the 70s?

IMO Sawyer was the crazy one. "We made a life here, it was good". You don't belong here you nimwit!

Yeah, I would be glad to get out of Crazyville and live a normal life. At least they could get haircuts from time to time. I just think that Sawyer (James) felt a little too comfortable there and was caught up in admiring their hippiness.

SteelWill 05-14-09 03:54 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
This episode has really left me underwhelmed. It didn't really progress or resolve anything and worse yet it didn't give any direction to look forward to next season. The real Locke is dead and apparently was just a patsy all along. Jacob is dead, but all I know about him is he lived in a cave and liked touching people so no big loss. The Losties may be dead/alive/in LA/still on the island/in the past/in the future from what may or may not have been the incident that they may or may not have caused themselves which amounted to all of just a bright flash.

Pharoh 05-14-09 04:01 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by jpoppe (Post 9444326)
From the Fuselage:

Makes sense, and what many of us have surmised here. However, as I alluded to before, this doesn't explain the Others.

aintnosin 05-14-09 04:16 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
How about this for the opening scene of season six. Paralleling Desmond in the season 3 opening, Juliet awakens, naked, in
Spoiler:
an alternate reality where the WTC is still standing and Leonard Nimoy is standing over her.

cleaver 05-14-09 04:28 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I want to see more of Jack's backstory, like if he's ever had a girlfriend whose life he didn't save, because he's got less game than Bud Bundy. Kate's his if he wants her 5 minutes into the series, but he closes like Heathcliff Slocumb and now he turns into John Hinckley x infinity. Meanwhile Sawyer is trying to get to his bookie to get rich with the least crazy eligible bachelorette on the island which is what any normal guy should be trying to do if they find themselves in the 70s.

invisiblegt 05-14-09 04:50 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin (Post 9444328)
No. You distinctly insulted an entire religious sect of the world by saying the following:

It only offends someone who is so egotistical as to believe that their opinion on religion is the only one with any validation.

It is entirely possible that Jesus was based upon the god Horus. It is also entirely possible that he was precisely as presented in the Bible. It is also entirely possible that both Horus and Jesus exist, and that every religion on the planet that has ever been, and ever will be, is correct. There simply is no manner by which to determine the authentification of such.

It does not offend, unless you wish it to offend.

(And, if anything, Jesus would be based upon Thoth. Thoth was considered to be the voice of Ra, and had the ability to resurrect people from the dead. He even healed Horus, when he had been blinded by Set, by spitting in his eye; a feat similar to one conveyed in Mark 8:28. In it, Jesus spits on the eyes of a blind man, and restores his sight.)

And, as for the statue, it also seems quite similar to the image associated with that of Taweret, the Egyptian goddess of fertility (or, rather, childbirth). She is most commonly in the form of a hippo, and has a snout similar to that of a crocodile. She also has a rather flat head, much akin to that of the statue.

There are many facts which may present themselves as being either in favor of Sobek or Taweret, but until it is definitively specified on screen... Let the postulation continue.

SteelWill 05-14-09 04:54 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by invisiblegt (Post 9444504)
It only offends someone who is so egotistical as to believe that their opinion on religion is the only one with any validation.

Which is only every devoutly religious person on the planet. :)

golden_rod 05-14-09 04:55 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by goofee girl (Post 9442749)
Season 3 was the worst season by far.

Amen. An entire episode devoted to finding a fucking van in the jungle. Oy.

Aphex Twin 05-14-09 05:02 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I wonder how Walt and the other special kids are going to help in the fight of good vs. evil. That's going to be very intriguing and the one thing I look forward to seeing in season 6.

redrum 05-14-09 05:15 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
more i think about it, the more i think the flash at the end is one final time travel

dsa_shea 05-14-09 05:29 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
What doesn't make much sense now is that Rose and Bernard lived in the cabin in the 70s but when it was discovered in the present time they make it seem like there was someone recently living there. We know that either Jacob or the Faux Jacob existed there in 2004 because Locke saw him there but Rose and Bernard would have lived there 30 years prior to that.

The Bus 05-14-09 05:35 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
That wasn't the cabin Rose and Bernard lived in. That was a hut they made.

dsa_shea 05-14-09 05:46 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by The Bus (Post 9444593)
That wasn't the cabin Rose and Bernard lived in. That was a hut they made.

So who is she referring to when she said that someone had lived (been there) recently? Also, wouldn't the Faux Locke have been asking why they weren't heading towards the cabin on the trek since that is the only place that Locke had contact with who he thought Jacob was. Instead he is just trekking down the beach blindly following Richard. Wouldn't that seem somewhat suspicious that he isn't at least asking to go where he thought Jacob would be?

Shinobi 05-14-09 06:04 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9444611)
So who is she referring to when she said that someone had lived (been there) recently?

The theory is that Jacob's enemy was living in Jacob's cabin. And that when Locke visited "Jacob" in previous episodes, he was really visiting Jacob's enemy. Who, in turn, had been manipulating Locke all along.

dsa_shea 05-14-09 06:05 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I guess it is also safe to assume that Charlie's guitar is in the case and not something else and that is what Hurley brought back to the island.

dsa_shea 05-14-09 06:07 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Shinobi (Post 9444623)
The theory is that Jacob's enemy was living in Jacob's cabin. And that when Locke visited "Jacob" in previous episodes, he was really visiting Jacob's enemy. Who, in turn, had been manipulating Locke.

That was the theory I posted. However, this doesn't explain why they wouldn't question Locke when he didn't ask to go back to the cabin instead of walking for miles on a beach to get to Jacob when he never would have known for Jacob to live there.

RichC2 05-14-09 06:10 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9444631)
That was the theory I posted. However, this doesn't explain why they wouldn't question Locke when he didn't ask to go back to the cabin instead of walking for miles on a beach to get to Jacob when he never would have known for Jacob to live there.

You don't question a giant black smoke monster in disguise :(

Patrick_N 05-14-09 06:10 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Ok, don't want to see more parallels than there are. But, but... with Stark Trek it's all about hitting the reset button and here in Lost we (they) are also hitting the reset button.

Now, I love Lost and I liked Star Trek.

But this will get OLD really fast...

As a matter of fact, i'm calling it old right fging now.

Good finale thought. ;-)

Aphex Twin 05-14-09 06:17 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Patrick_N (Post 9444643)
Ok, don't want to see more parallels than there are. But, but... with Stark Trek it's all about hitting the reset button and here in Lost we (they) are also hitting the reset button.

Now, I love Lost and I liked Star Trek.

But this will get OLD really fast...

As a matter of fact, i'm calling it old right fging now.

Good finale thought. ;-)


Please no spoilers about Star Trek in the Lost thread. Some of us (like me) have never seen Star Trek yet and would appreciate it being unspoiled before I watch it.

dsa_shea 05-14-09 06:29 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
Has anyone thought about the title of the show having to do with Lost as in I won and you Lost? Since it seems like a game between two individuals sort of like Highlander maybe this is what it ultimately is referring to.

golden_rod 05-14-09 06:32 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by TLwizard (Post 9442951)
If those two found in Season 1 are Adam and Eve...

Are Jacob and other dude Cain and Abel?

They aren't Adam and Eve, it's just a name that Locke gave the bodies.

One thing I noticed in the opening was that Jacob was wearing white and his enemy was wearing black. In the episode where they discovered "Adam and Eve," Jack found stones with the bodies, one black stone & one white stone.


Originally Posted by Pharoh (Post 9444380)
Makes sense, and what many of us have surmised here. However, as I alluded to before, this doesn't explain the Others.

I very highly doubt that everything will be answered. They've already admitted that they're never going to revisit Libby.

headrippa 05-14-09 06:53 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
If Jack resets everything, Locke never got to the island, therefore wouldn't Jacob have never been killed by zombie Locke?

dsa_shea 05-14-09 07:28 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by headrippa (Post 9444699)
If Jack resets everything, Locke never got to the island, therefore wouldn't Jacob have never been killed by zombie Locke?

Just the conversation that me and a buddy had on the phone not even 5 minutes ago.

JZ1276 05-14-09 07:36 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
If Jacob's nemesis is Locke and smokey, why was Locke surprised when Ben told him that his dead daughter told him to obey everything Locke says? Locke asked him "when did this happen" and "so you have to listen to everything I tell you to do"? Maybe smokey is Jacob. Jacob tells people what to do (as Christian telling Locke to turn the wheel, as Bens daughter telling Ben to obey Locke) but still leaving them to make a choice (at the end of the episode Jacob told Ben he has a choice whether or not to kill him)

s}{ammer 05-14-09 07:42 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
The thing I can't understand is how so many of you are still looking for a biblical solution to this? Jacob was making Egyptian tapestry. He was living in the base of an Egyptian statue, regardless of which god it represented. The temple underground covered in hieroglyphics. How can so many of you look at this and still see biblical? It is Egyptian, why else paint the picture this way?

Jimmy James 05-14-09 07:57 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I don't think it's strictly Biblical or Egyptian. I think if it is pseudo-religious, they're going to freely mix their metaphors.

Deftones 05-14-09 08:02 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by s}{ammer (Post 9444753)
The thing I can't understand is how so many of you are still looking for a biblical solution to this? Jacob was making Egyptian tapestry. He was living in the base of an Egyptian statue, regardless of which god it represented. The temple underground covered in hieroglyphics. How can so many of you look at this and still see biblical? It is Egyptian, why else paint the picture this way?

why does it have to be about one or the other?

Aphex Twin 05-14-09 08:04 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by headrippa (Post 9444699)
If Jack resets everything, Locke never got to the island, therefore wouldn't Jacob have never been killed by zombie Locke?

But if Jack reset everything, how would he have gotten on the island in the first place in order to leave the island and get back on the island, travel back in time, and reset everything?

tlwizard 05-14-09 08:19 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by s}{ammer (Post 9444753)
The thing I can't understand is how so many of you are still looking for a biblical solution to this? Jacob was making Egyptian tapestry. He was living in the base of an Egyptian statue, regardless of which god it represented. The temple underground covered in hieroglyphics. How can so many of you look at this and still see biblical? It is Egyptian, why else paint the picture this way?

I see it as Egyptian. But that doesn't mean there can't also be biblical allusions as well. Egyptian imagery may be the most prevalent imagery this season, but there's been plenty of Judeo-Christian imagery in the past. I think any good storytelling is going to pull from numerous sources. But if there's going to be a honest discussion about any of this, people can only pull from what they know and a lot of people know the biblical story and not as many people know the story of ancient Egyptian religion. Just imagine if there had been a great flood during the show... most people would say "Oh, that's like the flood of Noah." Others would say, "No, this is like the flood of Incan mythology" or the flood of Norse mythology. And so on

In addition, I've appreciated some of the input you've provided in terms of some of the Egyptian mythology. I never thought your correlation between Egyptian story and Biblical story to be offensive but I can understand how others might read into it as offensive.

The truth is, I don't think this is gonna be as easy as "all of this is from the bible" or "all of this is egyptian." I think the imagery we see on the island is all human construct that gives clues to the nature of the gods or demi-gods or whatever they are. We would all do better to go and read Joseph Campbell.

s}{ammer 05-14-09 08:25 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Deftones (Post 9444804)
why does it have to be about one or the other?

because it is the way they wrote it. If it were a biblical issue, then we would be talking good vs. evil, God vs. Satan. Since it is Egyptian it is not held to a monotheistic viewpoint. It is neither good nor bad, simply two divine beings who use us as pawns in their game. How can Jacob be a good guy when he is the one called the black pearl to the island in order to start the game, a game it seems he has been starting forever?

This can not be God vs. Satan unless God too thought so little of people. This would not fit into the Christian ideas of God and the devil. God is the only all powerful being so if he really wanted to he could easily destroy the devil.

In this story however, we have two equally powerful beings and they can not, for an as yet unknown reason, kill each other. This is why I see no other way for this to go than this to be Horus vs. Seth(Set). They are the only two that seem to fit the profile, minus all that lettuce talk from earlier. :)

Deftones 05-14-09 08:31 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by s}{ammer (Post 9444853)
because it is the way they wrote it.

so just because there are some egyptian themes no other possibilities are acceptable? seriously? that's very narrow minded. you've seen the shit the writers of this show have thrown at us. while you may end up being right, why would you limit the possibility of what is going on just because a few things make it seem that way?

dsa_shea 05-14-09 08:39 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 
I just hope that next season they give us a bit more backstory on Jacob and his nemesis and not just leave it to our imaginations like they did with Libby.

s}{ammer 05-14-09 08:40 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by Deftones (Post 9444862)
so just because there are some egyptian themes no other possibilities are acceptable? seriously? that's very narrow minded. you've seen the shit the writers of this show have thrown at us. while you may end up being right, why would you limit the possibility of what is going on just because a few things make it seem that way?

Narrow minded? Please, there have been hints toward the Egyptian ideas from early on. Anyone remember what showed up on the timer when they didn't punch in the numbers ontime? It wasn't Hebrew. The reason I can't see this being God and Satan is simple. Who would want to worship a God that treated them like pawns in a game? Jacob is not a good guy, he only differs from his enemy by certain attributes that we have already discussed, but he brings humans to the island to start the game over. He has his hands in many deaths on the island. So how would he fit in to Christianity? Also, as I have stated before, what we have seen of these two is that they are equals, but is Satan the equal to God?

s}{ammer 05-14-09 08:42 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by dsa_shea (Post 9444886)
I just hope that next season they give us a bit more backstory on Jacob and his nemesis and not just leave it to our imaginations like they did with Libby.

I would rofl if they leave a bunch of the story open ended and then show a preview for the first lost movie coming in 2011. :)

riley_dude 05-14-09 08:46 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by ericmylad (Post 9443472)
I'm still in shock that after all this time Jacob turned out to be Hulk Hogan's brother from "No Holds Barred". Who knew? ;)

He was actually quite good on the first season of Dexter.

dsa_shea 05-14-09 08:51 PM

Re: Lost -- 2 Hour Season Finale -- "The Incident" -- 5/13/09
 

Originally Posted by riley_dude (Post 9444904)
He was actually quite good on the first season of Dexter.

He was great at making you hate his character. That's why I'm not so sure if he really is the "good" guy in this show as the writers are always trying to throw us off.


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