Matthew Ackerly

We saw the back of the statue from the orchid.

Maybe the orchid lies in the shadow.

who knows.

Draven

Also, is everyone assuming that the guns were in the crate? I didn't...they look like old Others weapons. The redshirt just said "They found guns." I have no idea what was in the crate.

And that reminds me...am I the only one that thinks it's hilarious that this new group of people crashed on the island, and quickly found and started using the housing with electricity...and didn't think that was weird? Remember when the original plane crashed and it was this huge reveal that there was a hatch and some modern conveniences on the island? Now it's just like "yeah, we found a house. The lights work. No big deal."

pinata242

Good, glad I'm not crazy in that I missed something obvious.

cracksky

It doesn't matter if they can see it or not. It's a password that was given to them by Widmore for sure. They know the answer but nothing more. They just need to be able to gather their people on the island and my guess is start a takeover. This is the beginning of Widmore's war he was talking about to Locke.

Palaver

A dead/resurrected Charles Widmore.

pinata242

I am not saying this isn't true. It just leaves little time and room for error for Charles to get all these people together and on this particular flight when, as far as we know, only Mrs. Hawking knew this flight would cross paths with the moving island and (according to Charles himself) he wasn't in contact with Eloise at all when he sent Desmond that way. Maybe that was a lie or changed, who knows. Maybe he has his own team for finding the island and came to the same Flight 316 conclusion but, as I recall, it was the presence of 5/6 of the O6 and a dead John Locke that created the opening.

Maybe I'm wrong. There's just a lot of jumping to conclusions here based on little to no evidence.

Something's up, that much is for sure.

OldBoy

i totally spaced at one part...after Desmond beat the crap out of Ben and threw him in the water...what happened? did he get out and kill Penny?

Matthew Ackerly

After he was thrown in the water, they cut.. they didn't show what happened.

pinata242

I'm getting sick of the lack of Faraday. And seeing Keamy again last night reignited my man-crush

Jim

That's why I don't think we can assume he didn't kill Penny. He may not have, but we didn't see the end of that sequence.

PopcornTreeCt

I don't think that at all. They've made it like Ben has new memories (ala Frequency) because of the events that are being caused by Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, etc. The end result may be the same but the path is different.

pinata242

Ben was pushing a young (3, 4, 5?) Alex (born 88/89) on a swing in Dharmaville and Richard walked freely up. Of course The Purge (12/19/92) still happened.

cracksky

All Widmore had to do after he hung up the phone with Ben was call his team and say to go to LAX and get on the same flight as Ben Linus.

Palaver

I thought that Ben made the obvious choice not to shoot Penny before Desmond jumped in. When he saw her child, he lowered his weapon. Ben seems to have a soft spot for kids.

I'm pretty sure Penny is fine. The apology to Desmond was for shooting him.

Draven

But it's also creating new objects like the photo? So that photo wasn't there and then suddenly poofed into existence when the Losties went back in time?

I can buy memories being "created"...but physical objects is a little much. Of course the whole thing is stupid but that's what they've decided to do so I guess we just have to go with it.

cracksky

You don't know how long that photo has been there. They've always been a part of Dharma so they were always recruits. The photo was always there (since 1977 when they arrived). Nothing has changed.

aintnosin

Ben wanted Caesar to turn on Locke so he could "save" Locke's life. Classic Ben Linus manipulation.

We don't know that. We only see Ben as a young man with the Others.

I'd put that picture sometime in the late 80s.

The bullet hit the milk jug. The liquid probably deflected the shot off course.

cracksky

Who's using housing or electricity? On the Hydra island, there's only Ben's office, the cages and the runway - no electricity. On the mainland, we've only seen electricity in one house - Ben's (probably via the 'island'). other than that, it's been torches and lanterns. No one new from the plane has been to the mainland yet. Only Sun, Lapidus, Ben & Locke.

MoviePage

[Unnecessarily Overcomplicated Internet Lost Theory]

But maybe Ben went back in time, prevented Desmond & Penny from having a child, then came back to the dock in the future to shoot her! You never know with these writers!

[/Unnecessarily Overcomplicated Internet Lost Theory]

pinata242

Exactly. People are assuming that Ben would have been so familiar with a 1977 recruit picture that he would have instantly recognized Jack, Hurley, and Kate from it when he met them in the Swan 27 years later.

Ben had no knowledge then of the survivors that just crashed will eventually go back in time to his past.

The picture was a relic of the past to Ben and certainly not worth remembering a bunch of people that either left or died on the island 12 years or more before.

MoviePage

Yeah, that was a definite clue that the past with the Losties had already happened, and that Ben remembers them.

It also seems as though a lot of people are unable or unwilling to grasp the meaning of the "whatever happened, happened" statement that's been made several times on the show, explained on the show, and used as an episode title. The future/present has not and does not change.

cracksky

That may be but that shirt is from the '70's.

Plus, he was 40 in 2004 so something is still up.

Sean O'Hara

They were standing around the crate when Lapidus came up to them, and we saw earlier that they didn't want Ben helping them with it, which indicates that they had reason to keep other people away from it.

CharlieK

A young Ethan was with Ben when he kidnapped Baby Alex. If Ethan was born in the Dharma camp, how'd he end up over there? Is there speculation that Ethan's Mom used to be an Other that defected? When she was introduced on the show, Others were throwing a sack over her head to kidnap her. Maybe trying to take her back? The kidnapping happened before the purge, right?

We also learned in this episode where Smokey lives and that its not some kind of Dharma experiment gone bad. I like how the buzzing / clicking noise it makes are charges of electricity as it moves. I thought that was pretty cool.

Did this ep wrap up Desmond & Penny's storyline, assuming Ben didn't kill Penny after he was dumped in the water, which doesn't seem likely to me. If not, I wonder how they'll fit them in now.

aktick

We definitely haven't seen the last of Desmond. He's got some big role to play yet, IMO.