Well, we do know that Ben comes back to Dharma because we see him with his dad during the purge. I think it would be a bit suspicious for Ben to have disappeared with the Others and suddenly re-appear 10+ years later. He certainly wouldn't be walking around free to do whatever he wanted. I'm thinking it is most likely that he returned shortly after being healed. I may be proven wrong, but I think it makes the most sense.

True, but I think all that is new to Ben. Like Hurley asked Miles, how come Ben didn't remember Sayid when Sayid was torturing Ben. Of course, this could just be Ben playing stupid... but... I'm believing this isn't what always had happened. I don't believe this was the way all along.

First of all, everything involving Dharma happened before the purge. Second, Ben probably made contact with Ethan early on when he was a child to join them. Or maybe they just took him as a baby.

Ben shoots Desmond, Des beats him up and throws him in the water for dead. Later, we see Ben get on the plane with a broken arm and abrasions on his face. On the island, he tells Sun to say he's sorry to Desmond. That can't be about simply shooting him. I think the beating he took was payment enough for that. I think he got out of the water and finished the job.

I disagree. A beat down does not make up for shooting someone. Not even close. The beat down might make up for pointing a gun at Penny. The apology is for shooting him.

In last week's episode when Hurley asked that of Miles, I so wanted him to reply, "Who says he [Ben] doesn't?" And then watch Hurley's gears just turn behind a "whoa!" expression...

Playing stupid and keeping your cards close to the chest are two very different things.

However, SINCE that scene, we were made to infer that Ben won't remember much when Richard was done "fixing" him. This week they made that clear. Ben doesn't seem to remember Sayid already. If he doesn't go back to Dharmaville while J/K/H are there, it's all moot anyway.

Who's to say Ben didn't remember Sayid. I just watched the torture scene again. Ben keeps asking him, 'what's your NAME?' Finally, he says, 'my name is Sayid Jarrah, and I am a torturer.' Ben's eyes go wide. This could be out of recognition for his name or just because he's a torturer. Remember, they only had a few interactions in 1977. In the cell, introducing each other by NAME and then escaping and getting shot.

One other thing worth noting in regards to whether or not the time line has changed:

We saw the Risk game last night in Ben's house that Sawyer and Hurley were playing right before the freighter folk attacked. This would seem to indicate that the time line has not changed.

Weren't there electric lights in the room that they took Ben to where Locke was watching over him?

I think that storyline is definitely done. It was shot and edited in a way to make it seem finished. Ben shot Desmond, Ben went to kill Penny, Ben lowered the gun when he saw that Penny had a child, Desmond came back to beat Ben up, Desmond threw Ben in the water. The next time we saw Ben on the show, he looked like he had been beaten up, completely consistent with what we saw. I'm pretty sure that shooting someone and almost killing his wife is enough to justify sending a secondhand "I'm sorry" message.

Why would they only show us a part of this story? Have they ever shown a flashback on this show that was only partial, and then gone back later in the series to show more of the same flashback with new information? It doesn't make sense from a writer's point of view.

Why and how would Ben get back out of the water, soaking wet, somehow avoid Desmond who would be on the lookout for any further trouble, and then shoot Penny, who would doubtless have time to take precautions to protect herself while a beaten up, dripping wet person was fumbling his way out of the water and finding or drying his gun? Why would they show us another scene of Desmond beating Ben up some more? Why would they go back to this scene later in the series and spend more time on it, when it was clearly resolved by what was shown?

Yeah, I always like the Smokey effects generally, but I thought the "slideshow" it gave Ben looked really cheesy. It pulled me out of the story for a minute. Instead of Smokey showing Ben video clips from his past, I think it would have been more effective if it was "audio only". Sure, we might not have gotten every reference then, but I would have been ok with that.

My sister just watched this episode and said she hated it. That it was the worst episode in the entire series. That the dialog and writing was horrible. That Terry O Quinn and Michael Emerson weren't even acting. That the production was terrible. That this entire season has by far been the worst. That all of the characters are out of character completely and are only acting to connect dots like chess pieces. She said Ben is an example of PURE EVIL and that nothing he has ever done has been good, and that her opinion didn't change at all with this episode. She feels like he is the biggest evil in the whole series and is just as evil as Widmore is and that there is no chance for him to ever find redemption on the show. Then she told me she hated it, and was going to stop watching the series.

I'm in the group that thinks Ben doesn't remembers the losties. Most are assuming that he went back to Dharma. From last night episode, can we assume that?
I know about the scene with his dad, when Ben kills him. But that could only mean that he returned back just to kill him. Maybe I'm not remembering something, but it can be possible that Ben never returned back to Dharma until they killed them.

I hate to say it, but I have to somewhat agree with that part. This season has been extremely character-light and plot-heavy. If anything, it's moving TOO fast now, and most of the characters are doing what the plot requires of them rather than what they would normally do based on what we've learned about them from past seasons (hello, Sun!).

The Hydra station does have electricity. There are security cameras and monitors, an operating room as well as electrified cages there. The Ajira folk do have electricity in their new accomodations.

some are making something out of nothing with the "did ben come back and finish the job with penny". it was obvious to me that it was over the second that he was severly beaten and thrown into the water. he was in no condition to get payback after that. even penny would've kicked his butt after that. as for smokey, it took the form of alex ala yemi. i can't believe that's charle's strike team. they look pathetic, especially the fat guy. his previous team with keamy looked like a bunch of delta's or navy seals while this group looked like a bunch of amateurs.

If it was thrown together at the last second, beggars can't be choosers.

Ben's lucky he was even able to make the return flight to the island much less finish the job. Penny, Desmond and Charlie are out there sailing. It would be funny if they ended up crashing on the island and with this show I wouldn't doubt that it what is going to happen.

I think Des and Penny are going to be key to resolving Widmore's role in the story, so they definitely will be back.

No one remembers everyone they have met during their childhood. I've had stepmoms when I was a kid that I would never recognize if I saw them today.

Was she drunk? Or high?

Either Ben does remember them and that is why he called for them in Season 3 or he doesn't. I think if they were part of the purge, if it really happened, he would at least recognize them. So in the present time we either have to assume that whoever survived the "purge" if it happened had to have joined the Others and are living amongst them or living amongst themselves somewhere else on the island. Unless Ben killed all of them off then he had to live with them for sometime before being booted to the mainland. So can we expect to see Sawyer, Kate, Jin, Hurley, Jack or Sawyer living with Richard in the present? At this point who knows what is going on.

This is pretty much true. The show has moved from character based to, mainly, plot based. We were just talking about this on another board a few days ago. Remember when they used to finish episodes with music montages highlighting the various character interactions?

Last season he told Jack he was born on the island. Either that is a lie or he doesn't know about his birth on the mainland. Maybe that ties back to "he will never be the same and won't remember anything."

I agree, but I can't see Desmond and Penny looking for the island after what happened with Ben. That would be reason enough to stay away from everything, unless they make up and help Charles.

If anything, Charles Widmore now has Desmond to thank for saving his daughter. Funny how that worked out.

thanks for info.
well, he did something to either Penny or their child which is why he told Sun to tell Desmond he is sorry.